The European Union.....In or Out?

[Consumer dude]

Does anyone really know what's going to happen..

[honeybee13]

CD, if people know what's going to happen, I imagine they'd be choosing winning lottery numbers for tomorrow.

 

HB

Edited February 16, 2016 by honeybee13

[Consumer dude]

It really is the maddest situation. How is it possible to be paying 55 million pounds a day, (or what ever it is)..

[postmn]

CD, if people know what's going to happen, I imagine they'd be choosing winning lottery numbers for tomorrow. )

 

HB

Well if we vote for exit i can see him stall for a long time , however it will be very close either way . if we come out i give the eu 5 years since they cannnot afford to lose out contributions and i cannot see the german electorate putting thier hands in the pocket even more .

 

I must admit there is not one leader i trust at the moment everyone has thier own agenda and not one for the country . guarentee if we vote exit surgeon will want another referendom to stay in

[king12345]

EU has damage all European countries to great extent and the unified currency has done even worse.

A lot of eu citizens are now living in poverty despite the doctored countries' accounts.

We were lucky to retain our currency and suffered relatively less than the like of Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland.

The only positive action of the eu that has affected me directly is that I don't pay roaming charges when travelling in Europe.

Not much really, considering that we pay millions of our money to the eu everyday.

I hear people claiming that the standard of goods would be very poor without the eu ruling; this doesn't apply to the uk because our BS (British standards) are way higher than the (CE).

I also hear that other eu countries would refuse to deal with the uk if we exit: Again, this is nonsense.

For example: I go to a Spanish manufacturer of Serrano ham and ask to buy some.

Would the answer be: Sorry Sir, we don't sell to uk and we don't like your money.

Sure!

Volkswagen won't sell us any more cars...

Sure!

No more Italian pasta...

Sure again!

As much as I try to be impartial and find good reasons for staying in the EU, unfortunately I cannot find many.

Help me out!

[citizenB]

What concerns me is that even if he gets what he wants and the Eu signs off on it - he then holds the referendum in June - I understand the MEPs can scupper things but that would be AFTER the referendum!!

 

No way are the trough delving MEPs going to be happy at losing their jobs, which they no doubt would if we were to exit !

[king12345]

What concerns me is that even if he gets what he wants and the Eu signs off on it - he then holds the referendum in June - I understand the MEPs can scupper things but that would be AFTER the referendum!!

 

No way are the trough delving MEPs going to be happy at losing their jobs, which they no doubt would if we were to exit !

 

It would be cheaper to keep the existing MEPs as MPs than pay billions to the EU

[citizenB]

It would be cheaper to keep the existing MEPs as MPs than pay billions to the EU

 

Hmm, aren't most of the MEPs failed MPs ?

 

It is also my understanding that David Cameron wants to devolve a lot of responsibility to the Local Authorities and reduce the number of MPs by at least 100 !

[citizenB]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-mps-fear-losing-seats-if-david-cameron-cuts-constituencies-10381467.html

 

From 650 to 600 so only reduced by 50. Although it would appear he is facing a rebellion on that !

 

 

Some had hoped the plans would be abandoned following their election victory, but the Prime Minister has signalled his determination to deliver on a promise in the party’s manifesto.

 

As many as 19 seats won by the Conservatives could vanish as a result of the move, along with around 20 held by Labour and four of the Liberal Democrats’ remaining eight constituencies. From 13 July, Tory MPs from different regions will be called in by party officials to be briefed on the impact on their area of the abolition of 50 seats.

[citizenB]

http://www.sunnation.co.uk/millions-could-be-saved-under-tory-plans-to-slash-number-of-mps/

 

A staggering £11.6 million could be saved under Conservative proposals to axe the number of MPs.

 

Within the Tory manifesto, David Cameron promised to lower the number of parliamentary constituencies from 650 to 600 as part of his pledge to “cut the cost of politics.”

 

And that’s exactly what will happen if the plans are approved.

 

 

So there would be no room for MEPs

[citizenB]

And, according a report from 5 days ago, despite the cross party committee saying that the reduction was unjustified, he is going ahead with the plans .. well done that man !!

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/12/number-of-mps-to-cut-from-650-to-600

[unclebulgaria67]

The big danger of Brexit is that it starts another recession in Europe. The markets would react very badly to an out vote. The EU would be in a mess. Other countries might also want to vote to leave the EU. There is then the possibility of the EURO being stopped, with countries returning to their own currencies.

 

Not sure it is worth the risk. EU needs reforming, but better to do it by negotiation. Remember that Germans are also not happy about many EU aspects, as are French people etc. They need to discuss a new treaty, which goes back to what the EEC originally was before they went down the federal union route.

 

Even if UK left EU, we would have to implement 80% of EU law and pay in about the same as now. It would be similar to what happens with Norway.

 

Europe will recover from its current situation, but only if countries work together. The big problem facing the world is having too many humans for the current/future world. By 2025 it is estimated that about a third of jobs will be replaced by new technology. This is not just a European issue, but will hit countries worldwide. If you look through newspapers in other countries they are experiencing very similar issues. The UK would be mad to cut itself off from the EU, believing it offers any solution to immigration or any other perceived problems.

[tobyjugg2]

Problem is there will be no treaty changes, just a few 'could's may's and in exceptional circumstances if everbody says OK.

 

As the bankers want either

exit (to protect themselves from EU legislation) but with continus access to EU money markets without the risk

or in but with immunity from EU laws and prosecutions,

we aren't going to win anyway.

Cameron is ONLY looking to the cities interests. The rest is just smoke and mirrors.

[unclebulgaria67]

Problem is there will be no treaty changes, just a few 'could's may's and in exceptional circumstances if everbody says OK.

 

As the bankers want either

exit (to protect themselves from EU legislation) but with continus access to EU money markets without the risk

or in but with immunity from EU laws and prosecutions,

we aren't going to win anyway.

Cameron is ONLY looking to the cities interests. The rest is just smoke and mirrors.

 

There will be treaty changes, once the current economic climate improves. Spain is recovering, as is Italy and many other countries. But it is going to take years. Given the technology changes we will see, countries will have to change their economies anyway, as they need to find enough work for as many as possible. They just won't be able to borrow for big infrastructure works.

 

Even if public vote Brexit, i suspect UK will still be members of EU in 2020. It will take years to negotiate exit from EU and in that time there may be another referendum on improved membership terms.

[tobyjugg2]

There will be treaty changes, once the current economic climate improves.

 

Sounds like the if/but/maybe wishful thinking I referred Unc.

 

Problem is there will be no treaty changes, just a few 'could's may's and in exceptional circumstances if everybody says OK.

 

 

There will be no significant treaty change except to prevent EU collapse, and I don't mean the fear that it might if the UK leaves.

The UK and others would need to be actively progressing leaving.

[king12345]

Even if UK left EU, we would have to implement 80% of EU law and pay in about the same as now. It would be similar to what happens with Norway.

 

We wouldn't have to do anything.

With a strong leadership we could leave the EU and never pay a penny to them, refuse to implement all of their pointless rules (remember the standard for bananas curvature?) and decide who comes in and who stays out.

At the moment a murderer on bail can come and go within Europe without anyone checking.

[unclebulgaria67]

We wouldn't have to do anything.

With a strong leadership we could leave the EU and never pay a penny to them, refuse to implement all of their pointless rules (remember the standard for bananas curvature?) and decide who comes in and who stays out.

At the moment a murderer on bail can come and go within Europe without anyone checking.

 

I think even Farage says UK will still have to pay in and accept a lot of EU rules. All he has said is that UK would have to negotiate a deal and try not to get stitched up like Norway, because UK is a more important trading nation.

 

The EU has generally been good for the UK, as many rules protecting consumers and workers would never have been introduced by UK governments.

[Conniff]

So he has come back spouting he has got good things for Britain when he hasn't actually got anything.

 

Nothing on the agricultural policy

Nothing on the fishing policy

Nothing on reducing immigration

Immigrants can still claim child allowance even when they have no children here and send it home

Europe still has the last say on uk law and policy

Nothing on foreign courts overruling uk courts

 

All he can claim is a reduction in the amount of child benefit sent home and even then it is still up to the rest of Europe to agree with the amount.

 

So, absolutely nothing, no change whatsoever.

 

The other ministers have all gone back to their countries laughing their tits off.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Conniff

[fletch70]

EU has damage all European countries to great extent and the unified currency has done even worse.

A lot of eu citizens are now living in poverty despite the doctored countries' accounts.

We were lucky to retain our currency and suffered relatively less than the like of Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland.

The only positive action of the eu that has affected me directly is that I don't pay roaming charges when travelling in Europe.

Not much really, considering that we pay millions of our money to the eu everyday.

I hear people claiming that the standard of goods would be very poor without the eu ruling; this doesn't apply to the uk because our BS (British standards) are way higher than the (CE).

I also hear that other eu countries would refuse to deal with the uk if we exit: Again, this is nonsense.

For example: I go to a Spanish manufacturer of Serrano ham and ask to buy some.

Would the answer be: Sorry Sir, we don't sell to uk and we don't like your money.

Sure!

Volkswagen won't sell us any more cars...

Sure!

No more Italian pasta...

Sure again!

As much as I try to be impartial and find good reasons for staying in the EU, unfortunately I cannot find many.

Help me out!

 

I think you are missing the point , it is not the imports that we want to maintain it is the exports . naturally they will sell to us , unless one of our governments decide to put import duty in place but it is exports that we need not that we have a great deal to export these days .

[fletch70]

I think even Farage says UK will still have to pay in and accept a lot of EU rules. All he has said is that UK would have to negotiate a deal and try not to get stitched up like Norway, because UK is a more important trading nation.

 

The EU has generally been good for the UK, as many rules protecting consumers and workers would never have been introduced by UK governments.

 

That sadly is the point, some people do not want protection for workers and consumers as it cuts into their profit margins . It is not about , as they would try to make us believe, their survival , but it is all about the amount of profit

[citizenB]

Of course the Eastern European states were not happy about this. Think of the £millions that was being sent home to benefit their economy ! Do we even know if these children the money is being sent back for even exist ? And if they do, does this mean that they will now bring their families with them and put more pressure on an already straining infrastructure in this country !

 

 

Child benefit for the children of EU migrants living overseas will now be paid at a rate based on the cost of living in their home country - applicable immediately for new arrivals and from 2020 for the 34,000 existing claimants

 

 

Mr Cameron had originally wanted a complete ban on migrants sending child benefit abroad but had to compromise after some eastern European states rejected that and also insisted that existing claimants should continue to receive the full payment.

 

Why are these countries not providing better paid work for their own citizens ?

[Conniff]

but it is all about the amount of profit

 

That's all business has ever been. Worker protection isn't going to end if we leave. All these laws and regulations have been imbeded into UK regulation so would have to be debated and repealed and that just aint going to happen.

[citizenB]

Why do we have to allow them in, in the first place ?

 

 

Home Secretary Theresa May said the deal includes "important reforms to prevent the abuse of free movement".

 

"It means we keep control of our right to decide which criminal justice measures we participate in. It strengthens our ability to deport dangerous foreign criminals. And while European countries must work together to tackle terrorism, it makes clear that our national security is ultimately our responsibility, not Europe’s.

 

The EU is far from perfect, and no one should be in any doubt that this deal must be part of an ongoing process of change and reform – crucial if it is to succeed in a changing world. But in my view - for reasons of security, protection against crime and terrorism, trade with Europe, and access to markets around the world - it is in the national interest to remain a member of the European Union."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-35601369

 

[Conniff]

But he hasn't got any reduction in the powers of the European courts, a terrorist can still appeal a hundred time to all these different courts and ultimately to the EU court of Human Rights which always comes down in favour of the terrorist.

[silverfox1961]

What hasn't even been mentioned but should have been is the Human Rights Act.

 

In my (very humble) opinion, if a person from overseas burgles a house and gets sentenced, the homeowner has suffered a breach of their article 8 rights. The offender (IMO) should not be able to use that aspect of the HRA to claim a right to stay in this country

 

You breach a right, you lose the equivalent.