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Hi all - okay this is what I have so far.

Apologies I have pasted and copied

but the response was sent by email so there are no hard copies that I have seen.

 

 

I have just read through it and still don't quite understand why it doesn't seem to address

the root problem of this sum of money that appeared?

 

 

As I said the figure they want to settle it literally always different. Anyway here goes......

Dear

[/size]

Your complaint about npower.

Thank you for your patience while we considered your representations to the investigation.

You believe the account balance is incorrect because at times it fluctuated by large amounts. We have reviewed bills and accounting records between 2008 and 2016. We note that at times the account balance did rise and fall by large amounts.

We found that in most instances the reason for the balance changing was when the company issued a bill to an actual reading following a period of bills to estimated readings. For example the revised bill dated 6 April 2009 to actual meter readings followed four bills to estimated readings. We consider this is normal billing behaviour when actual meter readings are not used. We have not identified any shortfalls in customer service when the company issued estimated bills.

We found that the company did not issue bills between November 2011 and February 2013. We consider this is a shortfall in customer service. The company applied the code of practice for accurate bills and issued a credit of £1,113.84 on 12 August 2013 which we consider is a reasonable response when a company does not issue bills for more than 12 months.

 

We found that multiple separate account numbers complicated the accounts of your energy supply. These separate accounts are the cause of some of the big changes in the account balance.

In summary npower closed your original account number .......9000 incorrectly in November 2011

and it created a new account number ........6000.

Both of these accounts were later subject to a change in npower computer systems that effectively created two further accounts.

We have examined the records and bills for all four accounts and have not identified

any reason to doubt the accuracy of the balance on the current live account number ......2000.

We consider that you are responsible for paying the balance.

We consider that at times the billing of your account has been confusing

and that this is a shortfall in customer service.

 

We note that you have continued to make payments into the old account number ......3000 / .....9000

although it has been inactive since October 2013.

The company first identified this issue in 2013

on a number of occasions since then it advised you to make payments to the current account number .......2000 instead.

The company has transferred these payments to account .....2000 on a number of occasions

including as recently as January 2016.

 

The company says it sent a new payment card for account ......2000 to you in December 2015

and it recommends that you destroy any old payment cards you may have

We recommend that you stop making payments to the wrong account (.....3000 / ....9000)

because this is causing ongoing complication and delays to npower allocating your payments towards your energy bills

on the correct account (.......2000).

 

You say that you asked npower for a copy of the final account after you switched energy supplier in 2001;

however npower did not provide this to you

You say that you later realised that your energy supply had not successfully transferred away from npower.

Both parties have provided limited evidence about this matter.

Npower is not required to hold records for this period of time.

We do not have enough evidence to conclude that the company made shortfalls in service regarding this matter.

On 8 June 2011 the company wrote to your solicitor and offered a goodwill gesture credit of £150

for shortfalls in customer service related to this complaint.

The company states that its records show that neither you nor your solicitor accepted the offer;

therefore the company did not apply the credit

We consider it is reasonable for the company to now apply the credit for the reasons it identified in its email dated 8 June 2011.

 

On 6 August 2014 the company issued a credit of £100 as a goodwill gesture related to this complaint.

We consider that this is a reasonable response to further shortfalls in customer service identified after June 2011.

 

We have now reached the end of our investigation process and there is no opportunity to appeal.

You now have to decide if you agree to accept our decision in full and final settlement of the dispute.

The decision is that npower is required to take the following action to resolve your complaint:

• provide an apology in writing for the shortfalls in customer service;

• Issue a credit of £150 as a goodwill gesture; and

• offer a payment plan for the outstanding balance and ongoing usage with consideration of ability to pay.

If you agree, we will contact npower and confirm that you accept this in full and final settlement of the complaint.

 

npower will have up to 28 days in which to implement the remedy.

By accepting the decision, it does not prevent you from seeking redress through the courts,

however, a court may take into account the fact that you have accepted our decision.

 

If you do not accept this decision, or fail to respond, the decision will not be binding on npower.

 

Please contact us using the details below to indicate your decision.

You must confirm your response no later than 14 days from the date of this letter.

Yours sincerely

Bankfodder - my parents are out of the country right now but I am home on Monday eve/Tuesday where I can take the SAR and fish through it in detail.

 

 

Good work Batman! Yes - that is it the TUX scheme. I am going to have a look through the paperwork I have here in London this evening to see if there is anything else that maybe helpful, but in the meantime here is the paperwork for the Staywarm Scheme.

 

 

J

 

I think this has worked..... J

 

Why is it that npower did not accept it was a contract? And why is it that you say that it has now been proved that it is a contract? What does that mean?

 

 

I'm really not sure why npower did not accept this as a contract, but in the relatively early days he went up to I think Stafford where npower has a base to speak to a 'customer representative' face to face who swore blind that he had no contract with Staywarm. It was then proven it was (source unknown). I will message them tonight an try and get some more info about this....

 

 

Thanks you all so much.

 

 

J

Staywarm.pdf

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I don't have much time to respond this evening but the Staywarm document is unequivocal proof that there was a contract, in my view.

I can't see that Npower have any answer to this.

 

Please can you put up Npower's final response and your complaint to the ombudsman.

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Ok. I have found it now.

 

My take on this is, how are they calculating the charges from before 2008?

If they have readings etc. then they have not complied properly with your DSAR if they don't have readings then they have no proof of how the bill is calculated.

Either way they have shot themselves in the foot.

Dont let the parasite dca's prosper

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Thank you Batman and Bankfodder.

 

 

I'm not sure exactly what a DSAR is but I am going to speak to my father tomorrow.

 

 

I have just re-read the ombudsman's response and while it admits there were serious issues with the way npower were issuing bills, there is no clarity on the main issue - where the £5-8,000 came from?

 

I will try and find out more about how they were calculating the bills.... picking through what I have now!

J

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dsar is SAR

it will get you everything the hold on him

all bills emails letters account comms etc etc

 

 

get it running.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Please can you put up Npower's final response and your complaint to the ombudsman.

 

You haven't responded to this

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Thanks. And what happened to Powergen?

 

 

- hang on, they became EOn

 

... so an SAR to EOn might turn something up as well

 

Not sure what I can add here but thought I ought to confirm what BankFodder has posted about Staywarm. As per batman1956's BBC link, we took over TXU quite a few years ago. At the time, we were known as Powergen. We became E.ON in 2007. At the time of the takeover, Staywarm was part of TXU's portfolio. It was a specialised tariff for older customers. We continued to offer the tariff before withdrawing the product a couple of years ago.

 

Not sure how useful this is to the OP but hope it helps. Please ignore if not helpful.

 

Malc

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Thank you. That could be very helpful indeed.

 

Any chance that you might be able to find us the address for a data protection request – an SAR?

 

Thanks.

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Hi BankFodder

 

Although Subject Access Requests are dealt with by a specialist team, any advisor can start the ball rolling. If the OP contacts us via whatever channel they prefer, we can kick start the process. I'll be happy to start things off if the OP would like to drop me a PM.

 

There's a £10 fee and we'll need details of the customer including their name, address and account number. I'll send this through to the team who look after these requests. They'll send the customer a form in the post. We then have 40 days from receiving the completed form and payment to provide the information.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Malc

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That sounds great. Let's hope that the OP visits the thread soon and sees your post.

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Hope so BankFodder. I'm in tomorrow but not again until later next week. If they do come back after this, probably best to PM my colleague Helena. She will be here in my absence. Here's her log in.

E.ON Company Rep: Helena

 

If the OP tells her I've been posting and gives her the link, she'll be able to drop straight on to it.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Malc

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That sounds great. What a shame that Vodafone doesn't give the same kind of care and attention to their customer service function on this website.

 

They keep bleating that they don't have the resources because they're so overwhelmed by customer complaints coming directly to them.

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Npower should take a leaf out of your book.

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Evening all,

Thank you for the assistance Malc - I have just tried to PM you but because I haven't yet racked up 30 messages I can't :( If you could drop me one I will respond by email or text - however you wish.

 

 

I have just received a load of information. Unfortunately I don't have the complaint to the ombudsman, but I have a response from the first complaint to them. Only have by email so another pasted link I regret. Before that though I have this correspondence from npower going back to '13 - I think it illustrates how this bigger bill from the staywarm days is being tagged onto the current account. With reference to the receipts - they are available. All of the correspondence at the time was being copied into the local MP - fat help that was!

 

 

Good afternoon Mr Smith

Thank you for your letter dated 15 October 2013, (copy below) regarding your ongoing complaint in relation to your electricity account.

> (I don’t have the pdf attachment)

Please accept my apologies for the delay you experienced from April - August 2013. At this time your account was being thoroughly investigated, although the length of time it took to reach a conclusion is not the level of service we aim to offer.

In relation to the reduction of £1113.84, if we did take the payments you made towards the closed account from 3 November 2011 - 28 May 2012 in to consideration, they would have been deducted from the reduction of £1113.84 applied to your account. By not including the payments you made, it has worked in your favour. Please note we will not be correcting this, as it will financially disadvantage you.

You mention having receipts for the payments you have made, please can you advise if you paid more than £1498.00 (14 payments of £107.00) from November 2011 - July 2013, if you have please can you send me a copy of the receipts and I will investigate this further.

I am sorry if you feel the wording used by Craig Dobson is not appropriate, although I would like to reassure you the payments you had made were traced and have been taken in to account when demonstrating how the current outstanding balance of £6166.78 has accrued and been calculated.

I take on board your comments about not being able to provide an explanation regarding the reason our agent incorrectly confirmed your property was vacant back in November 2011, although in line with the code of practice for accurate bills, we have applied a reduction to your account and I have explained how the reduction has worked in your favour.

The situation back in 2010 relates to our old billing system, however we have recently introduced a new billing system and you should not experience the issues you previously did.

I have added the details of your predicted ongoing usage, as outlined in the letter Sue sent you, about the products available moving forward, however the standard and Energy Online October 2014 charges will both be increasing on 1 December 2013, in line with our recent price rise announcement.

Your current standard tariff £1971.85 = £164 per month

Energy online Oct 2014 tariff £1738.56 = £145 per month

Online price fix Oct 2014 tariff £1702.56 = £142 per month

Fix price Dec 2015 direct debit tariff £1995.61 = £166 month

Price Protector Sept 2016 tariff £2001.74 = £167 per month

We would also need to take in to account the outstanding balance of £6166.78. Please advise if you have funds available to make a lump sum payment to reduce the outstanding balance.

I look forward to receiving a response from you soon. If we reach a deadlock situation, in which we can not agree a way forward I will refer your complaint for a final review from npower's Head of Customer Relations in line with our complaints process. You will then be issued a letter, outlining our final position on this matter.

Please note I will be out of the office from 4.30 today and I will be returning on 29 October 2013.

Kind regards

Sheryl Chappell

MP Liaison, Domestic

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This is from the ombudsman late last year - interestingly they 'I have identified no reason to doubt that the company has issued at least one accurate bill every 12 months; therefore my view is that the Code does not apply' which seems to contradict their admission in their more recent correspondence that I posted on the previous page.

 

 

From: "OS Enquiries (Energy)"

Date: 2 November 2015

To: Mr Smith

Subject: Message from Ombudsman Services: Energy – Smith - 01111436-00 OS:0350000001680

Dear Mr Smith

Your complaint about npower.

In order to progress your complaint I have investigated the issues you raised in your complaint form.

I have considered the information provided by both parties. This includes your complaint form and supporting documents. npower has provided a file, which includes its review of your complaint.

Your complaints and the proposed resolutions are summarised below.

Your main complaint is that npower is chasing you for debt that you believe you do not owe it. The company states that you are responsible for the debit balance.

You believe that the company should apply the Code of Practice for Accurate Bills (the Code) to write off any energy charges that are older than 12 months. The Code may apply if the company has not issued at least one accurate bill for more than 12 months. The company states it has issued accurate bills at least once every 12 months.

I have identified no reason to doubt that the company has issued at least one accurate bill every 12 months; therefore my view is that the Code does not apply.

You say that you have made all the required payment plan payments to the company. The company states that you have failed to make all the required payments, for example it says you did not make monthly payments of £319 on the plan started in February 2014.

You say that the company lost some of the payments you made to it; however you have not provided substantial evidence about this. The company states it identified that you made some of your payments to an old closed account number 146793146 and that it has transferred these to your new account number 146672456.

Evaluating the evidence provided by both parties I consider it more likely than not that the company accurately accounted for the energy charges it billed you and the payments made; therefore it is my view that you are responsible for paying the account balance. The company should offer a payment plan for the outstanding balance and ongoing usage with consideration of your ability to pay.

It is my view that if after examining a bill dispute that the company believes the outstanding debit balance is correct, then it is entitled to pursue you for payment; therefore I consider that it is reasonable for it to take legal action to recover the outstanding debt and do not require it to remove legal fees or stop legal action.

You state that the stress you have experienced has caused you a dangerous medical problem. Ombudsman Services does not specifically issue awards for stress because it is difficult for us to judge such matters. If you are seeking compensation for these health concerns you will need to consider taking this matter to court.

You feel that at times the company handled your complaints poorly, including inaccurate statements in its account notes about your property and issuing bills that appear to contradict each other.

Neither party has provided substantial evidence to show the company handled your complaints poorly. Considering the length of time this complaint has been ongoing it is my view that it is likely that at times the company has handled your complaints poorly; therefore the company should issue an apology in writing.

Following the investigation, our decision is that npower should:

• provide an apology in writing for the shortfalls in customer service; and

• offer a payment plan for the outstanding balance and ongoing usage with consideration of ability to pay.

What to do next

If you accept our decision in full and final settlement of your dispute, please contact me using the details below.

If you or npower do not accept our decision, then either of you can contact me, but must be able to:

• show that there is a significant error in the facts which makes a material difference; or

• produce significant new evidence which may make a material difference, along with an explanation of why that information was not previously made available.

You must confirm your response by 16 November 2015.

Yours sincerely

David Barrell

Investigation Officer

I will try and discover more about the original bill from the paperwork I have this evening. Thanks again.

 

 

J

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I'm going to have a bit of a nag here so I hope you don't get too offended.

 

Whenever we get people coming onto this forum and start telling us that they are acting or helping someone else, I always get a bad feeling about it. There are always difficulties about finding out what really happened for about getting documents et cetera et cetera. It doubles the amount of work for the volunteer team and it slows down the process of helping you.

 

I realise that you are doing this for your parents and that they may be elderly so I understand that they are probably not able to come onto the forum themselves. However, I do find that generally speaking having to ask questions more than once, you don't seem to have the documents at hand. I'm not too sure why the file is still with your parents and not with you. The file has been in your possession since July and nobody seems to have gone through it which makes me wonder why anybody bothered to send an SAR at all.

 

Frankly it sounds like there's a good case here that we can't really properly advise you and decide on the correct course of action and help you to pursue this vigourously until we get all the information and we see all the documents – and that's simply not happening.

 

I hope you wont mind me saying that we are giving you a lot very valuable help here for free. I can imagine that if you were paying thousands of pounds to a solicitor and you were paying by the hour, that the questions we were asking and the documents we wanted to see would be in our hands far more quickly because you would be worried about saving money

 

In terms of the complaint that you made and the ombudsman's a response, you commented that you felt that the issue that you had raised had not been properly addressed. This doesn't surprise me.

 

I have often found that the final response which is given by the utility company or the bank, or whoever, is often skewed to present the complaint in a rather more favourable light to the company and tends slightly to avoid the real crux of the issue and for this reason when the ombudsman looks at it, of course he's not really addressing the issue.

 

Customers don't realise that when they get their final response they ought to look at it very carefully and they ought to complain if they feel that it's missed the point – and believe me, it often does miss the point.

 

I'm sorry if you find that this message to you is a bit harsh. It is certainly intended to be critical of what is happening here.

 

I wonder whether you could resolve this this weekend to get all the papers, to understand what is in the file, to find the missing papers, if there are papers which you absolutely can't find then list them here and we will tell you how to get them, and for the second time – please would you engage with the forum a little bit more quickly because it's very difficult asking questions and then hanging around not knowing the answers. One of the things that keeps people energised and motivated to help you is a rapid turnaround of information. When we get the impression that the person we are helping is not terribly responsive, the thread becomes lacklustre, then the help that you get also becomes lacklustre.

 

The only winners in this case are npower

 

Also, please will you put the letters and so forth that you are typing out here in quotation boxes.

 

I've done three for you so far. It makes it much easier if you present the information in quotation boxes because then we understand far more easily what we're looking at.

 

If you look at the top of the reply entry form, you will see that there are some tools including a quotation box. Try experimenting and you will soon work it out. Thank you

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Hi Bankfodder - don't worry about offending - I completely understand and appreciate the advice that I am receiving.

I am in 12 hour a day job and have to go to Bath this evening to work on a flat that has just been trashed by tenants - absolutely no sympathy vote, just a brief explanation of my circumstances.

I am now weighing up driving to the midlands on Sunday afternoon to collect the necessary paperwork or go to work in the evening to download what I have here (I don't have a scanner at my flat) I have discovered the letter of complaint to the ombudsman which summarises the situation (in dads words) from the beginning.

Either way I really regret until Sunday I am not going to be able to reply any more than on a mobile telephone.

I will be making a donation towards the running of the site - I appreciate the site doesn't run on nothing.

J

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You're quite right. The forum doesn't run on nothing. It runs on goodwill.

 

Here's a scanner http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/computing-accessories/printers-scanners-and-ink/scanners/canon-canoscan-lide-220-flatbed-scanner-10029726-pdt.html which is selling at a very decent price. It'll do everything you want and it will last you for years. It's also quite small so you can move it around from address to address if you want. I suggest you invest in one of these immediately. Both you and we will benefit from this much more than any donation.

 

Multiple page document should be scanned in PDF format please – multipage single file format with names that mean something rather than IMG.001 IMG.002 et cetera.

 

We don't need hundreds of scans. Just the stuff that we asked for – but we need it fairly quickly.

 

I suggest that you stop posting on this thread because quite frankly it's running into a complete mess and by and large this is been going on for over a week now and it's got nowhere and it is using up goodwill.

 

I would suggest that it would be good idea to start a new thread when you finally get yourself together.

 

Also, you have seen the suggestion from the E-On rep. Please send an SAR to E-On immediately with the £10 fee. Make sure the £10 fee is sent by way of a cheque because this will allow you to keep track of what is happening far more easily.

 

The E-On rep seems to be very helpful on this forum but I don't know how far he can go with his own company. I suggest that you provide him with all the details you can and maybe a copy of the SAR so that he knows what's going on and maybe he can find a way to getting you the information you need about StayWarm more quickly. E-On should be comfortable about this because they're not in the frame so they don't need to get defensive. I'm sure that the rep will be happy to let you know whether or not he thinks he can help you.

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Evening all,

Thank you for the assistance Malc - I have just tried to PM you but because I haven't yet racked up 30 messages I can't :( If you could drop me one I will respond by email or text - however you wish.

 

 

I have just received a load of information. Unfortunately I don't have the complaint to the ombudsman, but I have a response from the first complaint to them. Only have by email so another pasted link I regret. Before that though I have this correspondence from npower going back to '13 - I think it illustrates how this bigger bill from the staywarm days is being tagged onto the current account. With reference to the receipts - they are available. All of the correspondence at the time was being copied into the local MP - fat help that was!

 

 

 

Hi John1978

 

As requested, I've just sent you a PM. Look forward to hearing from you.

 

Malc

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Also, you have seen the suggestion from the E-On rep. Please send an SAR to E-On immediately with the £10 fee. Make sure the £10 fee is sent by way of a cheque because this will allow you to keep track of what is happening far more easily.

 

The E-On rep seems to be very helpful on this forum but I don't know how far he can go with his own company. I suggest that you provide him with all the details you can and maybe a copy of the SAR so that he knows what's going on and maybe he can find a way to getting you the information you need about StayWarm more quickly. E-On should be comfortable about this because they're not in the frame so they don't need to get defensive. I'm sure that the rep will be happy to let you know whether or not he thinks he can help you.

 

Hi BankFodder

 

I've just sent John1978 a PM with details of how to contact me privately. I'll certainly start the ball rolling but the SAR request will be picked up by a specialist team who'll deal directly with the customer. Happy to give any other details that might help.

 

Malc

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