Which benefits can be lawfully attached to to recoup Council Tax debt and magistrates fines?

[brassnecked]

To take the discussion off another thread, there is an idea that councils can now attach to DLA or the new PIP to recoup Liability Orders, this is problematic if said benefit is funding say a Motability car on lease.

 

Can we look at which benefits can lawfully be attached to so we can frame best advice?

[mikeymack2002]

Wow I didn't realise my idea was worthy of a thread thanks folks...

 

 

This is indeed going to be possibly huge, If the LA does get the ok to deduct from DLA/PiP then those most affected will be the most vulnerable in our society. I have already asked Antone (admin) from the DWP section to look at the original thread for their thoughts, so this really could be an interesting thread...

[Peterbard]

Is this happening already ? if so

 

Do we now what the law says in this area and what the procedure is, what scale of deductions is used etc and what special considerations(if any) are applied ?

[brassnecked]

Wow I didn't realise my idea was worthy of a thread thanks folks...

 

 

This is indeed going to be possibly huge, If the LA does get the ok to deduct from DLA/PiP then those most affected will be the most vulnerable in our society. I have already asked Antone (admin) from the DWP section to look at the original thread for their thoughts, so this really could be an interesting thread...

You're welcome MM, this is an important area as if implemented without due diligence case by case then there is a real issue for many disadvantaged debtors, being as how these benefits are for costs over and above normal to pay for ways to pay for any extra costs incurred due the effects of a disability.

 

 

I think Conwy CC managed to attach to someones DLA last year to claw back an alleged HB overpayment. I was told they took £20 per month for 3 months from a DLA Low rate care award to claw back 60 quid.

[Peterbard]

I know of case where payments have been deducted to repay loans from the social funds. I am unsure if this is the same thing.

[mikeymack2002]

For future discussion and or thread, here's my idea, further to this thread and the LA could/would they then also do the same for Council rent arrears and the like? If indeed there are rents arrears due. This really could be expanded to cover so many different matters....

[brassnecked]

For future discussion and or thread, here's my idea, further to this thread and the LA could/would they then also do the same for Council rent arrears and the like? If indeed there are rents arrears due. This really could be expanded to cover so many different matters....

Could be discussed here without deflecting main topic too much, the two debts often are concurrent, council tax and rent arrears, and we need to firm up which benefits are attachable and what debts can be recouped by the attachment.

[daverules]

Hello

my friend is on ESA and he has three AOE deductions, Council tax, Rent arrears and Thames water, each

amount is aprox £3.50 each, unsure if he pays it monthly or each fortnight, left him a message asking

him to confirm and will update when I know.

 

Regards

[brassnecked]

Hello

my friend is on ESA and he has three AOE deductions, Council tax, Rent arrears and Thames water, each

amount is aprox £3.50 each, unsure if he pays it monthly or each fortnight, left him a message asking

him to confirm and will update when I know.

 

Regards

Thanks daverules, I think ESA is attachable as is JSA I think Universal Credit will be attachable also, the other question is can they lawfully attach to the disability specific benefits such as PIP, and DLA/Attendance Allowance.which are supposedly untouchable.

[Peterbard]

As someone who knows absolutely nothing about this subject, I would like to know by what authority these sums are attached ?

Is there some kind of hearing .

In the case of council tax a liability an order is issued after a case is "heard" by the magistrates court, of course this is usually a rubber stamping exercise but the principle of the debtor being able to deny liability is still there.

Is there no provision for this before none CT attachments are issued on benefits ?

 

Also in the case of DLA my understanding is that this payment is not liable for deductions for tax or anything else, it is supposed to be there to help the claimant to lead a "normal life" and to level the playing field with other none disabled people.(as far as money is able to of course)

[daverules]

Hello

sorry Brassnecked, was reading on a mobile so didn't take in all the info so apologies

for missing the PIP/DLA part.

 

Regards

[brassnecked]

As someone who knows absolutely nothing about this subject, I would like to know by what authority these sums are attached ?

Is there some kind of hearing .

In the case of council tax a liability an order is issued after a case is "heard" by the magistrates court, of course this is usually a rubber stamping exercise but the principle of the debtor being able to deny liability is still there.

Is there no provision for this before none CT attachments are issued on benefits ?

 

Also in the case of DLA my understanding is that this payment is not liable for deductions for tax or anything else, it is supposed to be there to help the claimant to lead a "normal life" and to level the playing field with other none disabled people.(as far as money is able to of course)

That is my understanding DB, but I know of one case for sure where a council managed to attach to DLA for HB overpayment, I'm sure there are others.

[Bailiff Advice]

To take the discussion off another thread, there is an idea that councils can now attach to DLA or the new PIP to recoup Liability Orders, this is problematic if said benefit is funding say a Motability car on lease.

 

Can we look at which benefits can lawfully be attached to so we can frame best advice?

 

I read this yesterday and was waiting to get some information sent to me before responding further.

 

Once a Liability Order has been issued, the local authority can apply to the Department for Work and Pension to make deductions from source from only the following benefits:

 

 

Job Seekers Allowance

 

Income Support

 

Employment Support Allowance

 

Pension Credit Guaranteed Credit

[mikeymack2002]

If you wish to check I think the amount that can be taken is £3.70pw... may have changed recently...

 

Then the LA can still apply up to 2 orders. Unless you ask to suspend one. As a side note which won't go down to well is that if the debtor is on benefits and has 2 Liability orders and then gets a sanction.

 

This will happen eventually so it's just a vicious circle for some claimants/debtor's. . Especially if this happens towards the end of the financial year.

 

Then the new bills are issued and the cycle starts all over again.

 

Then if the LA asks for a committal hearing this cost is added to the debt. Then if granted the debtor goes to jail for up to 90 days.

 

They still owe the debt and still can't pay. But there by the grace go I, you can't be sent to jail a second time for the same debt...

[Peterbard]

I read this yesterday and was waiting to get some information sent to me before responding further.

 

Once a Liability Order has been issued, the local authority can apply to the Department for Work and Pension to make deductions from source from only the following benefits:

 

 

Job Seekers Allowance

 

Income Support

 

Employment Support Allowance

 

Pension Credit Guaranteed Credit

 

Ahh not DLA I notice ?

 

How do the LA know that the person is on benefits ? Is there a facility for data sharing already in place with the DWP or do these benefits enable a claim for council tax rebate, so they will already be on the council's data base. ?

 

I notice there seems to be set sum which is applied of three pounds odd, is this contained within a regulation somewhere ?

[mikeymack2002]

The LA would know if the claimant is in receipt of HB/CTR others and maybe possibly that social devices are involved as well!

 

Most benefits departments already share and there is currently a debate going on as for other agencies wanting access to the HMRC data..

[Peterbard]

MM the LA is not a "benefit department", the HMRC is about getting people's employment details and is on the other thread and is nothing to do with benifits.

BAs post had noting to do with HB, it is that i know that some of the benefits mentioned are "gateway" and enable an application for council tax rebate.

Some are not

[mikeymack2002]

It is clear you know nothing about benefits due to what you have said "MM the LA is not a "benefit department", so to enlighten you see here >> https://www.gov.uk/apply-housing-benefit-from-council

 

 

They state this

 

 

Housing Benefit information from your council. You can apply for Housing Benefit through your local council to help pay your rent.

Just so you know this see here >> http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/dec/17/5bn-social-care-shifts-local-government-attendance-allowance

Responsibility for managing £5bn benefit for older people to shift to local councils, Attendance allowance for over-65s to become the responsibility of councils in one of the biggest reallocations of public resources in 25 years

But according to YOU they (the LA) don't do benefits .. So with this information from you I will refuse to post on a thread that you state such inaccuracies.

 

 

[Bailiff Advice]

If you wish to check I think the amount that can be taken is £3.70pw... may have changed recently...

 

Then the LA can still apply up to 2 orders. Unless you ask to suspend one. As a side note which won't go down to well is that if the debtor is on benefits and has 2 Liability orders and then gets a sanction.

 

This will happen eventually so it's just a vicious circle for some claimants/debtor's. . Especially if this happens towards the end of the financial year.

 

Then the new bills are issued and the cycle starts all over again.

 

Then if the LA asks for a committal hearing this cost is added to the debt. Then if granted the debtor goes to jail for up to 90 days.

 

They still owe the debt and still can't pay. But there by the grace go I, you can't be sent to jail a second time for the same debt...

 

MM,

 

If a person was on benefits and had two attachments and had a sanction (which is quite rare anyway) then there would be absolutely no possibility of a local authority requesting an application to commit the person to prison for a new council tax bill.

[mikeymack2002]

Being sanctioned and having LO's is not rare, obviously you cannot go to prison for a new bill. They can in fact apply for one that has arrears is what was said... I never suggested that a debtor could go to jail for a new bill....

[Peterbard]

Ahh not DLA I notice ?

do these benefits enable a claim for council tax rebate, so they will already be on the council's data base. ?

 

 

As usual MM i have not got a clue what your on about, i said the above.

Yes i did say that i know nothing about the way benefits are attached (isn't that what we are trying to find out), this is a discussion thread no one is giving advice here, it would be nice though if we could stay on topic and stop the silly point scoring

[mikeymack2002]

How can I be point scoring if the information you supply is wrong? Its not point scoring its letting you know what you said was/is wrong, to leave no doubt on this matter see here >> https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/housing-benefit-claims-processing-and-good-practice-for-local-authority-staff

 

 

'This information is for local authority staff who process claims and administer Housing Benefit, including Local Housing Allowance.'

I am referring you to your post #17

[Bailiff Advice]

I suspect that again we are going off the subject.

 

This particular thread by Brassnecked is a discussion one regarding Liability Orders (and court fines) and whether deductions can be made against a debtor benefits to repay these debts.

 

If the debtor is already in receipt of housing benefit or council tax relief that yes, the local authority will be aware of any benefits that the debtor may receive.

[Peterbard]

Sorry MM again not clue what you are on about.

My question was. How do the LA know about who is receiving benefits," I asked this because i didn't know, this is why you generally ask a question.

I went on to say that council tax benefits will be on their data base. i do not believe that these will be relavant in any case for obvious reasons

 

So what about other benefits JSA or any of the ones which give cash for normal living expenses, these surely are the ones which logically could be the subject of an AOE.

 

This is the first question which needs to be answered to be able to answer the question raised by the thread (for me anyway)

[Peterbard]

 

If the debtor is already in receipt of housing benefit or council tax relief that yes, the local authority will be aware of any benefits that the debtor may receive.

 

Yes BA and these benefits would not be applicable for an AOE anyway, it is not disposable income, it is there to either pay the council tax, or pay for the accommodation (rent).