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    • is response to CPR rules you sent me - my observations are   1)they havent stated under what law/legislation they make a claim, they have mentioned document they rely on but didnt serve it with application as above   2)they didnt serve application or evidence on me ever! court knows this    3)this is a telephone hearing where no oral evidence is to be given , do we do skeleton arguments or court bundle , when do we give to court - order is to only submit evidence in response 7 days before hearing   4) there are /is a document which gives complete defence to the claim, disclosable at trial , so they shouldnt have sought summary judgement a)i have an email from them ,  a deed of guarantee and indemnity (DOGI) was required for guarantee, pre condition to lending b)i have a docusign email sending request to sign this  DOGI document (not attached it was a docusign login) , c)they dont have a copy of it and havent provided under SAR or specific request.  d) anyone who does a DOGI, is not defined as a 'Guarantor' in the agreement, which is not signed in a personal capacity anyway, e)so in the application they rely on loan agreement having a self contained gurantor section, and the fact my name is next to word guarantor (but not signed personally, no statute of frauds anyways)   their definition of a guarantor-"person named in offer letter who enters into this loan agreement to provide a personal guarantee and indemnity. this definition excludes any third party guarantor who enters into a seperate DOGI"
    • Hi Anney.   Let's give this a bit longer. With the best will in the world, altosbestos hasn't been here very long and we don't know much about them. It would be good to know what forum regulars think about what altos is advising.   HB  
    • thanks for that very helpful, ill make some points on it in a minute just wanted to say they never served me application against CPR, i had to obtain off court a copy. They refer in wtiness st - marked as what they rely to support application a paginated bundle PR1 which apparently accompanies the statement, i can see from the references and amount of pages it should be the loan offer and loan agreement, as you would expect.   so i asked court can i have copy of PR1 so i can check, they just got back and said  claimant has never either in electronic database or in paper, served a bundle PR1 with the application,    there said it was claimants job to serve everyone and me- so ask them      i was about to and i had a thought, they havent submitted any evidence in support of their application why remind them !   in theory judge will get to hearing and go where is your evidence of this agreement?   and for the record they are very sloppy and do make major mistakes in their paperwork, so this isnt unusual
    • You can draft the letter before action yourself and send it against the individual that's not giving you clear responses. No need to involve solicitors at this stage.   I would recommend you do it today, start maintaining a paper trail. 
    • Obviously the real proof will come when the contract is revealed.   In the meantime you could write to the DVLA asking who applied for your data back in 2017. And show them the signage where both companies are listed and ask in view of who asked for your details, did the right one apply and what is their view on both companies showing on the sign.   Is this legal and explain that you are in the middle of a Court case and they may be called.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
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      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
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      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
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Hi, I hope someone can help me

 

Over the years I have got into a lot of debt with council tax mainly because I have moved from job to job, anyway I have a 0 hour contract and usually earn around £350 a week ( when I work) I can then go 2 weeks without any work so I always budget my money to last me in case of no income on future weeks.

The council have just placed 2 attachment of earnings on my wages, for CT due from 2006!, which I think allows them to take between 12 and 17 % of my earnings for each order, this will leave me struggling financially as my rent is £130 p.w so I always make sure I keep 2 weeks payments out of 1 weeks wages incase I dont get any work.

 

I am really worried as I wont be able to survive, they also sent 5 other summons I have to bailiffs so I have 5 letters from them also demanding payments of over £2000, I dont know how they expect me to pay them as well as taking money from my wages.

 

I am seriously considering leaving my 0 hour contract job and signing on until I come to an arrangement with them,

 

I really need help

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Hi Milly and welcome to CAG

 

With regards to the the 2 AoE.....

 

Priority between attachment of earnings orders

 

42.—(1) Where an employer would, but for this paragraph, be obliged under regulation 37(3) to make deductions on any pay-day under two or more attachment of earnings orders made under this Part, he shall make deductions only with respect to the one which was made first until it ceases to be in force, and shall then deal with the other order or orders in like manner in the order in which they were made.

 

(2) Where an employer is or would, but for this paragraph, be obliged to comply at any time with an attachment of earnings order made under this Part and an order made under the Attachment of Earnings Act 1971 (“the 1971 Act”)(4) or the Child Support Act 1991 (“the 1991 Act”)(5)—

 

(a)if the order made under the 1971 Act or, as the case may be, the 1991 Act was made first, whilst it is in force he shall comply only with the order made under the 1971 Act or, as the case may be, the 1991 Act, or

(b)if the attachment of earnings order made under this Part was made first, whilst it is in force the attachable earnings for the purposes of Schedule 3 to the 1971 Act are to be treated as such of the attachable earnings mentioned in paragraph 3 of that Schedule(6) as remain after deduction of the amount to be deducted under the order made under this Part.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/schedule/3/made

 

What are your other 5 summons in connection with...not the above?

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Thread moved to Council Tax Forum for now.

We could do with some help from you.

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In regards to the 2006 CT arrears this may help you see here https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/25%20EW%20Time%20limits%20for%20recovering%20debts/Page-04.aspx

 

Can you please post up the years you have arrears and what stage you are at with them thx...

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Hi Milly and welcome to CAG

 

With regards to the the 2 AoE.....

 

Priority between attachment of earnings orders

 

42.—(1) Where an employer would, but for this paragraph, be obliged under regulation 37(3) to make deductions on any pay-day under two or more attachment of earnings orders made under this Part, he shall make deductions only with respect to the one which was made first until it ceases to be in force, and shall then deal with the other order or orders in like manner in the order in which they were made.

 

(2) Where an employer is or would, but for this paragraph, be obliged to comply at any time with an attachment of earnings order made under this Part and an order made under the Attachment of Earnings Act 1971 (“the 1971 Act”)(4) or the Child Support Act 1991 (“the 1991 Act”)(5)—

 

(a)if the order made under the 1971 Act or, as the case may be, the 1991 Act was made first, whilst it is in force he shall comply only with the order made under the 1971 Act or, as the case may be, the 1991 Act, or

(b)if the attachment of earnings order made under this Part was made first, whilst it is in force the attachable earnings for the purposes of Schedule 3 to the 1971 Act are to be treated as such of the attachable earnings mentioned in paragraph 3 of that Schedule(6) as remain after deduction of the amount to be deducted under the order made under this Part.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/schedule/3/made

 

What are your other 5 summons in connection with...not the above?

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy

 

This regulation was ammended and now they can run two AOEs t the same time unfortunately.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/3008/regulation/17/made

 

 

Priority as between orders

 

17. For regulation 42 and, accordingly, for that regulation as set out in Schedule 3, there is substituted the following—

 

“Priority as between orders

 

42.—(1) Where an employer would, but for this paragraph, be obliged to make deductions on any pay-day under two or more attachment of earnings orders, he shall—

 

(a)deal with the orders according to the respective dates on which they were made, disregarding any later order until an earlier one has been dealt with; and

 

(b)deal with any later order as if the earnings to which it relates were the residue of the debtor’s earnings after the making of any deduction to comply with any earlier order.

 

(2) Subject to paragraph (3), where an employer would, but for this paragraph, be obliged to comply with one or more attachment of earnings order and with one or more deduction order, he shall deal with the orders according to the respective dates on which they were made in like manner as under paragraph (1).

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Yes they have always been able to issue 2...but I really cant see any difference in your link Dodge ?

 

Original ...

 

42.—(1) Where an employer would, but for this paragraph, be obliged under regulation 37(3) to make deductions on any pay-day under two or more attachment of earnings orders made under this Part, he shall make deductions only with respect to the one which was made first until it ceases to be in force, and shall then deal with the other order or orders in like manner in the order in which they were made.

 

Your link

 

42.—(1) Where an employer would, but for this paragraph, be obliged to make deductions on any pay-day under two or more attachment of earnings orders, he shall—

 

(a)deal with the orders according to the respective dates on which they were made, disregarding any later order until an earlier one has been dealt with; and

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Hi

Yes the earlier version which only lasted 6 months made it impossible to place a second AOE until the first expired it is section (b )which is important

(b)deal with any later order as if the earnings to which it relates were the residue of the debtor’s earnings after the making of any deduction to comply with any earlier order.

 

Section a refers to the fact that both cannot be proceeds together compounded.

 

This guidance was issued to all authorities by the moj#

 

http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Council%20Tax%20Attachments%20of%20Earnings%20Orders%20(AEOs)%20-%20Guidance%20for%20Employers.pdf page 6

 

(a) If the is already a CTAEO in place, the new CTAEO is still applied, in date sequence, with the later

order being applied to the residue of the earnings. However, if there are already two or more CTAEOs

in payment, then no further CTAEO can be actioned and the Local Authority should be notified

accordingly

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Gottcha...I thought the original was too helpful and considerate to the debtor :roll:

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Gottcha...I thought the original was too helpful and considerate to the debtor :roll:

 

I have heard that it is to a degree concessionary, in that you can ask that they are applied in order. Unfortunately nowadays LAs are trying to get people in arrears back into a situation where they are paying the bill as it falls due, rather than a year in arrears, so they tend to want to try and make up the time on the second order.

 

To me they should use the continued arrears as an indication that the debtor is struggling to pay and re examine their circumstances.

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Thanks for the relpies, dont know what I am going to do as I fear I will fall into the 17% on each order being deducted, I cant sleep worrying about how I am going to survive. The other orders are from around 2010, 2012 and 2014 I think, going to phone bailiffs tomorrow and tell them I cant even contemplate paying them at the moment

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Hi, I hope someone can help me

 

Over the years I have got into a lot of debt with council tax mainly because I have moved from job to job, anyway I have a 0 hour contract and usually earn around £350 a week ( when I work) I can then go 2 weeks without any work so I always budget my money to last me in case of no income on future weeks.

The council have just placed 2 attachment of earnings on my wages, for CT due from 2006!, which I think allows them to take between 12 and 17 % of my earnings for each order, this will leave me struggling financially as my rent is £130 p.w so I always make sure I keep 2 weeks payments out of 1 weeks wages incase I dont get any work.

 

I am really worried as I wont be able to survive, they also sent 5 other summons I have to bailiffs so I have 5 letters from them also demanding payments of over £2000, I dont know how they expect me to pay them as well as taking money from my wages.

 

I am seriously considering leaving my 0 hour contract job and signing on until I come to an arrangement with them,

 

I really need help

 

Yes indeed, have you worked out exactly what your deductions will be , or is it impossible because you do not know the amount of payment ?

 

The net earnings is worked on a daily basis, and the second LO is deducted on a second figure which represents what is left on you daily net minus the first f your AOE payments, so it may not be as bad as you think.

 

The method of calculation is here, section 38(8)

 

http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Council%20Tax%20Attachments%20of%20Earnings%20Orders%20(AEOs)%20-%20Guidance%20for%20Employers.pdf

 

If you have problems with the method give us a shout.

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I will see if our bailiff expert will come and anvise about how best to deal with the bailiffs and LA in your situation.

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Hi, I hope someone can help me

 

Over the years I have got into a lot of debt with council tax mainly because I have moved from job to job, anyway I have a 0 hour contract and usually earn around £350 a week ( when I work) I can then go 2 weeks without any work so I always budget my money to last me in case of no income on future weeks.

The council have just placed 2 attachment of earnings on my wages, for CT due from 2006!, which I think allows them to take between 12 and 17 % of my earnings for each order, this will leave me struggling financially as my rent is £130 p.w so I always make sure I keep 2 weeks payments out of 1 weeks wages incase I dont get any work.

 

 

Milly,

 

Before making any decisions you need to know how much will be deducted from your wages for the two attachments of earnings orders that have been served on your employer. Once you have reviewed those figures you will be in a better position to work out your finances.

 

In the first instance, a maximum of two attachments can run at the same time. Another attachment may only be made when one of the others has been paid in full.

 

I have calculated that with your salary being £350 per week, the attachment of earnings deductions should be as follows:

 

The first deduction will be £42.00 per week

The second deduction will be £36.95 per week

 

Total weekly deductions will be £78.95 per week.

 

The above deductions are based upon a take home pay of £350 per week. Could you post back to let us know whether the figure that you have quoted of £350 per week is before tax and NI or after tax and NI have been deducted.

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Milly,

 

Before making any decisions you need to know how much will be deducted from your wages for the two attachments of earnings orders that have been served on your employer. Once you have reviewed those figures you will be in a better position to work out your finances.

 

In the first instance, a maximum of two attachments can run at the same time. Another attachment may only be made when one of the others has been paid in full.

 

I have calculated that with your salary being £350 per week, the attachment of earnings deductions should be as follows:

 

The first deduction will be £42.00 per week

The second deduction will be £36.95 per week

 

Total weekly deductions will be £78.95 per week.

 

The above deductions are based upon a take home pay of £350 per week. Could you post back to let us know whether the figure that you have quoted of £350 per week is before tax and NI or after tax and NI have been deducted.

 

PS: It may assist to have this thread moved to the bailiff section (in particular that the other 3 Liability Orders look as if they are going to be referred to a bailiff)

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Providing personal income on an open forum is not advised. We know that these boards are monitored by the EA'S please don't do this... you shouldn't provide it by PM either...

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Molly have you checked to see if you are entitled to any benefits top up at all?

 

It may pay you to look into this. As it appears you may be struggling financially.

 

Have you informed your LA of this?

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BA

 

I believe the OP is on irregular payments, so if for instance there is 10 days between payment dates and the OP gets 350 after the ten days, they will pay the equivalent of £29. 4 (weekly)off the first bil, this i presume is to reflect that the customer will have to live for an extra thee days with the same amount of earnings.

 

The schedule C is used for the calculation

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Providing personal income on an open forum is not advised. We know that these boards are monitored by the EA'S please don't do this... you shouldn't provide it by PM either...

 

MM.

 

The poster is extremely worried and has even said that she cannot sleep because of her concerns that the attachment of earnings could be taken at a rate of between 12% and 17% of her income and this could affect her ability to pay her rent.

 

She posted that her income is £350 per week and using this information, I have been able to provide her with the amounts for each deduction. Without her providing this information, this calculation would not have been possible.

 

Also, as a new poster with less than 30 posts she cannot either send or reply to private messages.

 

PS: As mentioned above, I think that her weekly earnings (of £350) may well be before tax and national insurance (in other words gross salary). If so, then my calculation is wrong, and her actual deductions will be lower. It would therefore assist greatly if she could post back with her take home figure and I can then provide more accurate figure for her.

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Just to add

 

In addition you will need the period between payments if it is not 7 days.

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milly210 if you would care to start new threads in the Bailiff Forum with regards to the other summons received as not to complicate this thread which will remain here in Council Tax issues and deal with your Attachment of Earnings orders.

 

Regards

 

Andyorch.

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Thanks for the replies, Bailiff advice, my payments are usually around 350, I have not been taxed at all because I have not earned enough but I think tax will start April, the figure is after NI, I get paid weekly......

 

I am more worried about my rent as I am on a suspended warrant after getting into difficulty with the last zero hour contract I had, I am at my wits end now, I cant afford to pay that each week, my life is complicated but I dont want to put too much on the forum about my circumstances, I am not entitled to any benefits

Edited by milly210
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Millie you need to take into consideration the period between payments. For instance if the period is two weeks the payment due for the first order will only be £17.50 instead of £42 if it is three weeks it will be £10.50. If you are not paying tax i am guessing that the £350 is not a weekly payment.

It may be that you are not liable for a deduction at all.

 

I understand your reluctance to put information on here, but if you ring your LA I am sure they will do the calculation for you and tell you exactly where you stand.

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Millie you need to take into consideration the period between payments. For instance if the period is two weeks the payment due for the first order will only be £17.50 instead of £42 if it is three weeks it will be £10.50. If you are not paying tax i am guessing that the £350 is not a weekly payment.

It may be that you are not liable for a deduction at all.

 

I understand your reluctance to put information on here, but if you ring your LA I am sure they will do the calculation for you and tell you exactly where you stand.

 

No it is a weekly payment, I only started the job September so nearly half way through the tax year that why I havent/wont earn enough.

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are you in the UK Milly ?

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