I think my employer is trying to get rid of me

[Emmzzi]

very good news indeed

[JoeyJoeC]

Well my manager accidently dumped all of his text messages into a shared mailbox. I can see between him and the owner they are looking for things "to use against him".

[ericsbrother]

you now have a copy on another computer somewhere?

[JoeyJoeC]

Yes screenshotted them and emailed them to myself.

[JoeyJoeC]

I asked for time off to see a doctor about my migraines (which I believe are stress related), but I was refused as apparently my doctor should be open late one evening (mine doesn't).

 

Does anyone know if I can self certify stress leave?

[JoeyJoeC]

I am now being told to document all of the work I have ever done with the company, including all of the passwords used. I can't fit that in with the rest of my work load. I am too stressed now.

 

I'm sure this must be in preparation to getting rid of me, so they know what work to pass over, and what passwords to change etc.

 

They have also left me 24/7 on call for the last 3 weeks. I have to check emails every hour and deal with all calls out of hours.

[ericsbrother]

whack in an overtime bill.

Anyway, I thought you were leaving soon so why beat yourself up.

[unclebulgaria67]

I am now being told to document all of the work I have ever done with the company, including all of the passwords used. I can't fit that in with the rest of my work load. I am too stressed now.

 

I'm sure this must be in preparation to getting rid of me, so they know what work to pass over, and what passwords to change etc.

 

They have also left me 24/7 on call for the last 3 weeks. I have to check emails every hour and deal with all calls out of hours.

 

You need to keep a diary record of everything that is happening.

 

I suspect you are correct in your suspicions, but it may not just be you. Perhaps they are looking to outsource the work your company does and to save money on redundancy they are pressuring you into leaving. They need to know what work you have been involved with including any passwords, so it makes it easier if you are not there. Perhaps don't give them everything.

 

If you do work on behalf of client companies, is there any potential for your employers to lose contracts ? Have they been told by a major client that they are moving their work elsewhere ?

[JoeyJoeC]

It's a small company, there is 4 other full time positions including my manager and the boss. I was the first employee and have known the owner for 11 years now. He even told me my job title will soon be "IT Manager", before he hired someone to that position. I have seen this guys CV and I am sure most of it is bull.

 

I am in trouble again today because a client has apparently been trying to call me but I haven't been picking up, I sent him a screenshot of my call logs to show not a single client has called me today. No doubt the boss will have a go at me for "defending myself" as he usually says. I must now call him or message him when ever I am not going to be able to pick up calls from clients, so every time I shower, sleep, drive the car etc, I have to let him know.

 

I seem to also be slightly short on my last pay by £50, which they paid me a day late, even knowing I have bills come out on payday which put me overdrawn.

 

I have two recorded calls from my manager now of him trying to get me to rip off our clients. One of him having a small moan because I remotely fixed an issue on a clients pc (Downgrade back to Windows 7 from 10) but he wanted to tell them they would need a new PC so he can make more make more money, and another telling me to sell a client a new TV, when all they really need is a pair of speakers. I also took some pictures of a delivery that was worth around £700 that they claimed never arrived from their supplier. I do now have so much dirt on them, they would be stupid to do what they are doing. (I have no intention to black mail them).

 

I am waiting to hear confirmation from the other job offer as one of the company owners has been away in Brazil. It's a very informal thing, as they work with my girlfriends dad. They have previously made me an official offer which I had turned down as things started to look up for my current company. I am worried as I havn't head back in a couple of weeks, and I can't afford not to have a job as I rent and live paycheck to paycheck. It is also very difficult to be allowed to take time off for job interviews.

 

I personally think he wants to save on money, he has hired someone else already to take over much of my job role, and he seems very junior so no doubt being paid much less. The manager is on 38k which is way much more than the company can afford, a couple of times now we've had to wait for invoices to be paid in order for us to be paid.

 

I feel I have no one to complain about all of this to. I did previously complain via email to the boss to tell him what the manager has been doing, but he instead replied to my email, CC'd my manager and told me I should sort it out with him.

[JoeyJoeC]

Just noticed I did have a call, I hadn't scrolled down on my call log and didn't see it.

[unclebulgaria67]

You might want to submit your CV to an IT recruitment agency just to see what is out there. I am not sure it is always a good idea working for a friend of a friend.

 

As for you being on call for clients to call you, this should be part of your contracted hours. If you look at the TUC site about unpaid hours, there is more info. There was some EU ruling which affected peoples hours where they were travelling to clients.

 

You need to keep a full log of worked hours, whether you are in the office or out of office doing work.

[JoeyJoeC]

You might want to submit your CV to an IT recruitment agency just to see what is out there. I am not sure it is always a good idea working for a friend of a friend.

 

As for you being on call for clients to call you, this should be part of your contracted hours. If you look at the TUC site about unpaid hours, there is more info. There was some EU ruling which affected peoples hours where they were travelling to clients.

 

You need to keep a full log of worked hours, whether you are in the office or out of office doing work.

 

Thanks UB, I have submitted my CV to a few agencies, the issue is getting time off is difficult and they want a couple of weeks notice at least, with a full reason of why I need that day off.

 

I am confused with the on-call arrangement. I don't understand how we can be 24/7 on call, even while asleep? It's very stressful having to keep thinking about work every hour to check emails, and make sure the phone is always on loud and that I can hear it. They have said it's a part of my role, but my contract doesn't mention it at all. I am not paid anything for being on call either. They did say they would review it in March to see if they can pay us extra, but I think that was BS as they knew they would get rid of me about now.

 

Should I count every hour that I am on call as working? Since I am expected to always be ready with laptop in hand to help clients, where ever I am. We don't ever have to travel to a clients office, it is all remote support.

[unclebulgaria67]

On call is part of your working hours, if you are expected to act on a phone call. It is similar to a Doctor sleeping in a hospital waiting for a phone call. Someone i know was an account manager handling high net worth clients for an investment company and he was on call all year, but was paid for all the work he had to do. He was on holiday in Australia with his girlfriend, when he had an urgent call and had to miss a booked trip. His company compensated him with pay and extra holiday time, but if holidays are interrupted like this, you question whether it really compensates.

 

This is having a detrimental effect on your health and as such you should see if you can get a free half hour with an employment Solicitors.

 

If you have any legal cover with Home Insurance, see if it covers employment related issues.

[SoggyMoggy]

Hi Joey,

 

 

I work in IT too and an example of my on call arrangement is that I am paid an hourly fee for all the time I am on call. This is only small due to my contract (63p per hour), but colleagues on differing contracts to mine are paid up to £3.50 per hour. If I receive a phone call in those hours I am paid a minimum of 3 hours at full overtime rates. This can be for not doing anything except listening to the caller and hanging up to going out to an office to perform kit checks and/or fixes.

 

 

This is just FYI on what other companies offer for on call working.

[unclebulgaria67]

Hi Joey,

 

 

I work in IT too and an example of my on call arrangement is that I am paid an hourly fee for all the time I am on call. This is only small due to my contract (63p per hour), but colleagues on differing contracts to mine are paid up to £3.50 per hour. If I receive a phone call in those hours I am paid a minimum of 3 hours at full overtime rates. This can be for not doing anything except listening to the caller and hanging up to going out to an office to perform kit checks and/or fixes.

 

 

This is just FYI on what other companies offer for on call working.

 

According to Citizens Advice on call hours is part of your paid working week.

 

Anyone in this situation of being expected to being on call at night should get legal advice as they may be entitled to full pay for those hours.

 

If people search for 'on call employment laws' they will find many results for this. One is from an Employment Law Solicitors who cover this issue in detail.

[JoeyJoeC]

Thanks, I read a couple of links but it says you only count it as your normal working hours if you're required to be in a fixed place and not go anywhere. I can go places, but it makes it difficult to do anything that means I can't have the phone on me, such as driving. They havn't said I can't go anywhere, but it's almost implied from the last recorded call I had with my manager.

 

Him: I have called you but no answer call me back

Me: Sorry I have been out, I can't call right now.

Him: You know that your on call right?

Me (annoyed): Yes I am aware of that, Ive been on call for 3 weeks now, Its not always possible to keep the phone on me. I have been checking calls throughout the day, I can't be expected to not go out or do anything and wait for calls.

(Que the phone call where he says I apparently agreed to go on call for 3 weeks, and should always be ready to answer the phone)

 

http://www.lawdonut.co.uk/law/employment-law/working-time-hours-leave-flexible-working/working-time-faqs#12

 

The current position is that hours spent on call away from the workplace, where the employee is free to pursue leisure activities, only count as working time for that time which is actually spent undertaking normal duties.

[unclebulgaria67]

In regard to on call hours the crux appears to be whether you can enjoy a normal life outside of normal work hours. If you are expected to be in one place to service client out of hours calls, these should all be paid hours. For example you would be stopped from enjoying social activities or family occasions which might be away from home.

 

I was paid quite a lot money to be on call over the millennium period, even though i did not have to go into work. It was just in case our IT staff needed help with fixing the systems.

 

Get legal advice and put in a grievance in writing.

[JoeyJoeC]

I am being pulled into a meeting Tuesday with boss and manager, no doubt this is where I get disciplinary action against me, As always I will record the meeting. I will ask them exactly what I am expected to do whilst on call, and what to do if I am going to be heading out.

 

I will also ask for a copy of my contract as this doesn't say anything about being on call. (I found the contracts on a shared server, and made a copy, I'm interested to know if they try to amend it before they send me a copy).

[tezza1234]

Just as an afterthought having read this thread, your employer sounds nasty, how on earth have you not cracked, is it worth exploring the option of leaving and then claiming constructive dismissal, I am sure you will have a good case, but as others have said, keep a diary of everything, the fact you have calls recorded is great also.

 

 

You need to be aware of everything they might try and do to screw you over and counter it, or have proof of it, document, copy, record, log everything you see as relevant, even if small.

[JoeyJoeC]

Just as an afterthought having read this thread, your employer sounds nasty, how on earth have you not cracked, is it worth exploring the option of leaving and then claiming constructive dismissal, I am sure you will have a good case, but as others have said, keep a diary of everything, the fact you have calls recorded is great also.

 

 

You need to be aware of everything they might try and do to screw you over and counter it, or have proof of it, document, copy, record, log everything you see as relevant, even if small.

 

Thanks, that is an interesting point. Currently I am putting almost everything in this thread, I will make a time line of everything later tonight.

 

I have defiantly had enough of things now, but hitting a brick wall when ever I try to speak up for myself as we get accused of 'always trying to defend yourselves'. I'm not going to hold back in the meeting tomorrow, I feel like tomorrows meeting might bring things to a new level.

[unclebulgaria67]

Thanks, that is an interesting point. Currently I am putting almost everything in this thread, I will make a time line of everything later tonight.

 

I have defiantly had enough of things now, but hitting a brick wall when ever I try to speak up for myself as we get accused of 'always trying to defend yourselves'. I'm not going to hold back in the meeting tomorrow, I feel like tomorrows meeting might bring things to a new level.

 

Is there a union you can join ?

 

I wonder whether there is a union that represents people working in the IT industry, where they are put in this position. You should not be expected to be on call for no pay and no contract covering it, when you have to be in work the next day.

 

Personally, i would not have put up with this for so long. Sometimes telling an employer you are being unfairly treated and entering into written communications has to be the way forward. If you are one of a four person team needing to provide 24 hour assistance to clients, you share the burden and get paid for any on call work. You have one mobile phone which gets passed to whovever is on the rota for on call. If you are woken to do work, you are given relevant time off normal hours to catch up with sleep. Your employer has a duty of care towards your well being and they are not showing the required duty of care.

[JoeyJoeC]

Is there a union you can join ?

 

I wonder whether there is a union that represents people working in the IT industry, where they are put in this position. You should not be expected to be on call for no pay and no contract covering it, when you have to be in work the next day.

 

Personally, i would not have put up with this for so long. Sometimes telling an employer you are being unfairly treated and entering into written communications has to be the way forward. If you are one of a four person team needing to provide 24 hour assistance to clients, you share the burden and get paid for any on call work. You have one mobile phone which gets passed to whovever is on the rota for on call. If you are woken to do work, you are given relevant time off normal hours to catch up with sleep. Your employer has a duty of care towards your well being and they are not showing the required duty of care.

 

I think there are unions, but I am not familiar with being a part of a union or how they work.

 

I've been at a clients all day today, but not had any replies to any of my emails to them today, I need to book the doctors today and am trying to find when is best for them for me to be out of the office but nothing. This is the case for almost all of the emails I send to them.

[unclebulgaria67]

I think there are unions, but I am not familiar with being a part of a union or how they work.

 

I've been at a clients all day today, but not had any replies to any of my emails to them today, I need to book the doctors today and am trying to find when is best for them for me to be out of the office but nothing. This is the case for almost all of the emails I send to them.

 

Have a look at Unite or Unison to see if you can join and what they offer. In theory they offer access to legal services and can help with such issues. But the reality according to some is that they can be as useful as a chocolate teapot.

 

Just book Doctors and tell them when.

[JoeyJoeC]

I will look at unions, I have heard before that some are pretty useless.

 

Well like clockwork, I have a performance review booked for tomorrow by my manager.

 

Good news is that the I've heard back from the guy I had been speaking to about the other job offer. His business partner is back from holidays now so they will be speaking tonight. Fingers crossed!

[JoeyJoeC]

Little update. In the meeting I had with my manager, it was just a review meeting. He did mention about me not picking up the call on the Saturday. He went on to say I should always be expected to pick up calls, even when I am driving. I told him it was illegal and I do not use my phone while driving, then he said they can get hands free kits for me... As if I want to have one of those stuck in my ear on all journeys. No Thanks. I did also mention everything I have been having problems with, the half hour meeting turned into an hour and a half with him trying to avoid answering my questions, but with me attacking back. Got to the point he actually said "We all love you Joe" which was a bit creepy.

 

Good news is that my notice it going in tomorrow, and I will be starting with a new company in a months time. No more £220 travel card into London, no more 3+ hours commuting a day. Better money, traveling around the UK being paid 40p per mile doing what I actually want to be doing!