JSA benefit fraud, initial letter confirming information, could lead to possible prosecution

[jabbaHutt]

Hello,

 

I had JSA for about four months total of £840 (approx).

 

I knew at the start that I had around £28,000 in savings in a separate account.

The savings are for university. full cost of course and living for three years.

This was my plan.

 

I was off work for 7 months with depression, still receiving an income.

I went and signed on and received one week (£71) and never went back.

I was off work at this time.

 

I had an argument with HR at work who were complaining about me not being there.

I told them that I quit and didnt want to go back.

I assumed that I resigned there and then.

 

I went and signed on,

then a week or so later I got a call from my union rep who told me that I hadnt resigned,

he spoke to them about my problems and I could come back.

He told me that they were giving redundancy soon.

 

I returned, a few months later I got redundancy.

Fell a little more into depression.

I had over £10,000 in my account.

 

I transferred £5900 to ISA and then signed on.

 

I took a few weeks, then quit.

Then I went back again and got a few weeks more.

This was a few years ago.

 

 

I got a letter the other day asking for more information as inland revenue flagged up

that I had more money in my account when I made a claim.

 

They are asking for my financial situation of that time. I

ncluding statements covering two years.

 

I looked at my statements online and saw that the money transfer was maybe a week or two before applying for JSA.

I am worried that I will go to prison for this.

 

I am going to send the statements with the letter and answer the questions honestly.

I have read about how they will try to prepare a prosecution if they could prove

that I knowingly didn't tell them of my finances.

It will look that way on the statement.

I don't know what is going to happen.

 

Could this lead to prison?

I haven't told my parents, I am 35 and still live at home.

 

I haven't been able to get a diagnosis for aspergers but believe that I have it.

I am still struggling with depression.

 

A result of my aspergers is that I really struggle to get on with people,

I have had some very bad experiences at work and

I am terrified of returning to that sort of situation.

 

I have had threats of physical assault and have had fights with people.

My things have been damaged/vandalised.

 

I dont know what I can do, any help or advice would be appreciated.

 

I have made a self-referal to talking change.

My uni course is going down hill,

I dont think I will be able to go onto year two.

That is if I am not in prison.

So much failure.

 

Does anybody have any advice, I could really use some right now!

 

Thank you

[dx100uk]

you will not got to prison for the tiny sum of £840.

 

simply tell the truth

 

and they'll tell you the figure and prob offer a payment schedule

 

no need to stress over this

its chicken feed to them.

 

stop worrying

go get on with your future.

 

good idea to go seek help

can the Uni help you too?

go see your senior tutor or the one you like the best

 

dx

[ripples]

When was this and have you been claiming any benefits since you were made redundant? If it is the case that you only claimed under a £1000 they may just ask you to repay the sum. Although I can't second guess what action they will take I think a custodial sentence is unlikely

[mikeymack2002]

You may receive a penalty for an amount. They will/may take this out of ongoing benefits

[fkofilee]

Good Morning JabbaHutt and welcome to CAG. DX is right with everything he has mentioned however you also have the option of either

 

Seeing your GP - He will be able to put you in contact with specialists who will be able to help with how you feel.

Speak to the Samaritans - 116 123 (Their number)

 

Depression is a tough situation to deal with and Aspergers doesnt help the matter.

 

Plus as DX said, prison wont happen. Without being too harsh, sit down, take a look at what is important in life and what can be put on the back burner for now and concentrate on that.

Trust me, if you can get referred and get a bit of organisation in our life, you will feel a lot stronger

[jabbaHutt]

Thanks for your response.

 

I didn't think about all the times I collected JSA. I added up an amount that I received before going to university and in total it came to around £2050. That is over the £2000 mark. Could this change things?

 

Thank you for your support, it is helping.

[ripples]

I believe if it is a large amount (over 10, 000) then it would make a difference but the amounts you are quoting a payment plan will be set up you might get a caution but it probably wouldn't go to court.

[Shoelover]

The DWP no longer give cautions, if any action is taken then it's an administrative penalty or court. If you went to court for £2k then (unless you have relevant previous convictions) then prison is very very very unlikely- if you look at the sentencing guidelines for benefit offences, you may feel better.

 

If you are interviewed under caution then I would recommend you ask for an appropriate adult- this is someone to look after your welfare at interview as you would be considered a vulnerable adult. Though I think you should cross that bridge if you come to it- people on here will be more than happy to support you. Nice gang here you know.

 

The other possible outcome is that the case is dealt with as a compliance issue & there not be any interview. If that's the case, then I think it would be likely that you get a civil penalty, which is £50.

[jabbaHutt]

Hello,

 

Thanks for the response.

 

 

I wanted to ask if anyone knows if a conviction for benefit fraud could affect me getting a student loan.

 

 

I spoke to the woman from the DWP who sent me the letter about my claim.

She was aggressive in demanding the answer to questions

and I felt that she was tricking me into giving her information.

 

 

Unfortunately I told her that I her how much money was in my account.

I do get very anxious in situations like that and I have been worrying so much about this.

 

 

I spoke to a solicitor on the phone and he told me that I was "bang to rights"

because I spoke to this woman on the phone and told her these things.

 

If I do go to court

does anyone know what could happen.

 

 

I was told by the solicitor that the amount of money in my account could affect the decision.

I have £28,000 for University.

 

 

This should hopefully pay for living and costs but I don't know how long it would last.

I really don't want a conviction.

 

 

I thought that explaining from the start what I had done would make things easier.

 

I feel sick most of the time.

[mikeymack2002]

When you initially signed on did you declare ALL of your savings?

[jabbaHutt]

no, just what was in my main account

[mikeymack2002]

Was the value of the savings above the threshold limit at the time of the claim? Which is between £6,000-£16,000. I am not asking you to confirm the amount but a yes or no will suffice...

 

 

If it was did you declare this money at the or any other time to the DWP? This includes any and all savings/stocks/bonds and ISA's... Basically any capital over the maximum limit of that stated above!

[jabbaHutt]

yes it was above both of those and no i did not declare it.

[jason2723637]

im surprised DWP and IR even flagged this up ....maybe you were bit unlucky or they did not have a lot of work on at the time and had too much time on their hands... either way common sense dictates they will not go down the custodial route think about it you I assume you was open and told DWP its savings for uni I mean we know DWP wont pay you to go to uni will they so you saved it and as stated above by those with actual benefit fraud experience for 2k ish custodial is very very very unlikely (without relevant previous convictions)...also the lawyer prob just wants to get part of your hard earned savings

 

 

oh and don't worry about the student loan as you wont get a conviction im no expert but as far as I understand no a person should not be hampered with an irrelevant conviction SLC would be interested in only relevant fraud ie someone taking out a student loan fraudulently would apply not benefit fraud

[ripples]

DWP are not interested in why you were saving money they are only interested of what amounts you had in savings when you claimed. You made a legal declaration stating these were your circumstances and acknowledged by signing that a false declaration would have consequences. Rather than pay for a solicitor you might be better off going to see citizen's advice.

 

The amount you owe can be settled by an offer of repayment when the DWP have made their decision on what they are going to do. I'm not sure I would have spoken to them on the phone but they can find out quite easily how much you have in savings so by admitting it just makes it easier and progress faster for them.

 

I should deal with this when you have to rather than worrying about it daily especially if b you are studying

Edited February 15, 2016 by ripples
typo and added extra

[jabbaHutt]

hello,

 

i have dropped out of uni as it was getting too much. i was struggling with the work as a result of stress from this. i have been looking online for past cases to see the outcome. some people have been mentioned online. their name is mentioned and what they have done and their punishment.

 

i am worried now about the possibility of my name going into the papers and possibly a photo. does anyone know where this could go if it went to prosecution, which i think it will. as i understand it, if they can prove me being false from the start they will go to prosecution. i am not sure if this would be a local court or somewhere else, like london. i live in hampshire. i dont want to give too much away as i am worried that someone may report this and it could be used against me.

 

is there a site that mentions the outcomes of this sort of thing? case studies, that sort of thing.

could this end up in the paper with my name or photo?

 

i have no problem paying back the money and a fine. i have read somewhere that they could seize my assets(?) im not sure if that means they could take all my savings. i sound very greedy i know but i have worked for those savings with the idea of making something for myself. i have been trying hard to avoid signing on and the idea of further education to secure a permanent job with good income was my plan. i read about these people who are trying to live in the lap of luxury, that is not me. i give the money i get to my mum as rent i then buy my food, pay for my car and anything else with my savings. i only use my car to get to uni and shopping.

 

i dont drink or smoke/drugs. and i really dont think that i live in the lap of luxury.

 

this is weighing heavy on my mind. i have contacted talking change, which is a self referral therapy session. the thing that sickens me most is that ultimately i know this wont help. i have been avoiding this for a long time and i dont want to hurt my family.

not sure what to do.

Edited February 29, 2016 by citizenB

[Shoelover]

Firstly, only the more "interesting" cases tend to make the press- and they only tend to take photos on big cases. So it very likely won't make the press.

 

The DWP can seize assets under the Proceeds of Crime Act, but again this tends to be bigger overpayments. The level of overpayment you are talking about is boarder line for court, but you may well just get an Administrative Penalty - which you can decline and risk court if you wish.

 

 

When is your interview?

[Mr.P]

There are two types of JSA: Contributions based which is paid for the first 182 days of a claim if you have paid sufficient N.I. contributions in the preceding two years. This is not means tested and is not affected by any savings that you may have.

 

Income based JSA is paid when you do not have sufficient qualifying N.I. contributions or you have been claiming for more than six months. Savings over £6,000 are taken in to account, and if you had more than £16,000, you would not receive any JSA payments.

 

It is possible that you were on contributions based JSA initially, so any overpayment is not likely to be as high as you might think. Whilst it is possible the DWP could prosecute you, the chances of this happening is slim. Even if they did take you to court, the press wouldn't be interested in reporting a trifling case when there are dozens more of people being prosecuted for £40,000 and more.

[Shoelover]

To add.

 

Although the courts view a claim being false from the outset as more serious, at £2k it's not going to make much odds.

[jabbaHutt]

To add.

 

Although the courts view a claim being false from the outset as more serious, at £2k it's not going to make much odds.

 

sorry i am not to sure i understand this comment?

 

recently i got a phone call from the woman at the dwp who is investigating me.

she started asking me questions over the phone saying that if i didnt answer them i would get in trouble.

 

 

i told her i felt pressured and that she should put these questions in writing which she told me she would.

i havent yet received a letter from her.

 

 

she told me she would send the original letter again with the request for new information

and that she would start the investigation again.

 

 

i told her that i was willing to help and answer every question and that the first letter wasnt that clear.

 

 

i spoke to a solicitor who said that she would speak to this woman

and ask her to forward any information about the investigation.

 

 

the woman from the dwp called me and asked for my permission to send information to the solicitor

and mentioned that she didnt know what information the solicitor wanted.

 

 

i explained that any information she had should be sent.

as far as i know the woman from the dwp hasnt sent any information.

 

 

the solicitor told me that i shouldnt make it easy for the dwp woman to do her "dirty work"

and that she should investigate the matter herself, knowing that the dwp could get any information they required.

 

i am worried that the woman from the dwp is going to make an allegation that i am refusing to help.

i do not know what to do about this.

 

 

i spoke to the solicitor again and he mentioned that there is a limit on the free advice he can give,

so i think i may have exhausted that option.

any help?

 

can this woman from the dwp make me look worse.

i dont want to have to talk to her on the phone as i find her pushy and a little threatening.

i know i have done wrong and want this over.

 

 

i am having some problems at the moment with stress and depression.

i am worried about the punishment.

 

 

the solicitor mentioned that i may get certain number of hours of work as punishment.

 

 

i am worried that this may aggravate my back.

i have a slipped disc and certain types of work hurt my back.

 

 

in the past i could sit down for a while. though i dont think i woiuld be allowed to do this on some kind of punishment.

any advice or help would be very appreciated.

 

many thanks

[Shoelover]

You will only get unpaid work if you are prosecuted and if the magistrate decides that's appropriate if you are found guilty. Lots of ifs.

 

Exactly what are they investigating you for?

[Shoelover]

Reading your first post again. This reads to me like it's compliance.

 

Have you ever been invited to attend an interview under caution? If not then they have no intention of prosecuting.

[jabbaHutt]

the inland revenue sent them information about me having money in my savings that went above the amount for claiming jsa. they want to know how many accounts i have, how much money i had at the time and whether i knew what i was doing. they also asked me about an account number that i do not recognise.

 

this account number that i do not recognize is worrying me as well. i dont know if someone has opened an account in my name. i went to my bank and asked them about my accounts, if that number was connected to any of my accounts and they said no.

 

does anyone know what kind of fine i could get? i read somewhere that they could seize my money. im trying not to spend any of it as i want to pass it on to my family. i think that this shows that i am greedy but i disagree. i have had problems maintaining work, mostly because of my problems getting along with people ( i have aspergers) and my lack of qualifications keeps me in temporary agency work. i have a tendency to worry alot about money.

 

looking at the amount that i claimed was about £2000, which i gave to my mum as rent money while i wasnt working. i am still not working and still paying rent money from my savings. so before i start hacking into the bulk of my savings i want to sort things out so i can move on.

 

this eventual legal process is starting to get to me. the dwp woman has been, in my opinion, hostile. how can i do this? i have received an email from her saying that she sent a letter last week. she is now moving teams.

 

should i pay for legal advice? i dont know what legal advice i would require. i dont want this dwp woman hassling me over the phone again and i would like her to send any information to the solicitors that i contacted. she seems not to want to do this. why would she behave this way if not to avoid something. this makes me think that she is setting me up. that she is doing something she doesnt want the solicitors to know about.

 

any help

 

thanks

Edited April 29, 2016 by honeybee13
Paras.

[Shoelover]

It sounds to me as if it's being dealt with as a compliance matter. Certainly it's a compliance level amount.

 

In short, I think you need to take all the letters to welfare rights or CAB and they can read it and advise.

 

If it is compliance you will not go to court.

[jabbaHutt]

Reading your first post again. This reads to me like it's compliance.

 

Have you ever been invited to attend an interview under caution? If not then they have no intention of prosecuting.

 

what amounts make this a compliance issue. i read somewhere that it is the amount of money in my savings that makes it a prosecution. if it does go to prosecution, do you know what could happen?

 

this is worrying me a lot.

 

thanks