Never received MacBook, seller isnt giving tracking number - help with N1 Please

[Takenusername]

In short guys,

I saw a MacBook on eBay and messaged the seller if I could get it cheaper.

They said they can reduce it from £625 to £600 if I paid by bank.

 

 

They looked legit and have a shop in London so I agreed, very naively.

Instantly I regretted it and asked for refund so I could buy through ebay with protection.

 

 

They said they'd spent the money on new stock so would refund within a week.

However the refund never came and I just said to post it instead.

 

They've clearly had me because it's been nearly 2 months and after constant emails, their final say was that they've sent it, and after two weeks of being ignored for a tracking number,

 

 

when I threatened to go court they said they put it in with the parcel accidentally, so there's no proof .

I said that was their mistake, but they refused and blamed the courier for not delivering the parcel.

 

while we were emailing back and forth,

I called the store number to ensure they'd sent it to the right address,

however I gave it to them instead of them telling it to me.

 

 

Only after the call I realised it was the first time I ever gave them my address,

so it's impossible for them to have sent it to me when they claim they did,

and at no point in any email had I given my address.

 

To summarise, I've sent a letter saying I'm taking them to court to which they didn't reply.

However I'm worried I'll lose the case because they have great reviews,

however exploited the fact I didn't have eBay protection.

Had I paid through eBay, the outcome may have been positive.

 

I'm now trying to complete the N1 form, but unsure of what to write because it's a bit of a confusing situation. Any help or advice of what to write in the application would be greatly appreciated.

 

Also I'm 17 (student) so the money is a lot for me because I only work part time, and going court is a bit daunting and that's why I've been delaying to file a claim.

 

Edit: paid £600 to seller through bank (debit card). Tried 'charge back scheme' but bank said they removed funds and the account is closed. I have emails to prove everything stated above too.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Takenusername

[dx100uk]

sorry

you say the bank are saying they cant do a chargeback

that doesn't sound right to me.

me thinks that's an excuse that wont hold water.

never heard of that excuse before

I think that the remote account being closed is immaterial

[Hammy1962]

So, if the other account is closed DX, from which, or whose, account would you suggest the funds come from to facilitate the charge back?

 

H

[Takenusername]

Sorry to clarify, they tried but there were obviously no funds in the account.

[Takenusername]

So, if the other account is closed DX, from which, or whose, account would you suggest the funds come from to facilitate the charge back?

 

H

 

Well they're still operating as a business, so the main business bank account I guess? The one I transferred money too was under an individual's name, not their business name

[dx100uk]

now that was silly.

 

as for chargeback, it doesn't work as described, but then again i'm not a motor mechanic either..

 

pers I think i'd be involving actionfraud and then the police

this is money fraud.

 

dx

[stu007]

Did you before you sent any emails ensure your settings ask for a "Read Receipt" (yes companies cant prevent a read receipt) but if they haven't you then have more evidence they have actually read that email

[JoeyJoeC]

Did you before you sent any emails ensure your settings ask for a "Read Receipt" (yes companies cant prevent a read receipt) but if they haven't you then have more evidence they have actually read that email

 

At the very least, a delivery receipt should be enough.

[Takenusername]

now that was silly.

 

as for chargeback, it doesn't work as described, but then again i'm not a motor mechanic either..

 

pers I think i'd be involving actionfraud and then the police

this is money fraud.

 

dx

 

The police said its a civil matter so I should tell action fraud. Reported it to them however it was around New Years, and they didn't get back to me personally.

 

Did you before you sent any emails ensure your settings ask for a "Read Receipt" (yes companies cant prevent a read receipt) but if they haven't you then have more evidence they have actually read that email

 

Unfortunately I haven't.

 

 

They've replied to most emails however and made it extremely clear they won't refund me or help me get tracking number and said 'we will now only deal with necessary authorities, please don't message again'.

 

At the very least, a delivery receipt should be enough.

 

So my question now is, what exactly do I put in the N1 form?

 

My only worry is they're going to claim I've received it.

 

 

They're not denying purchase, just saying I'm trying to [problem] them.

 

 

Surely because they haven't given me tracking number/proof of delivery I should win?

 

 

I know it may not be that simple but if I had the tracking number,

I'd know where the parcel is.

 

Thanks for all the replies so far guys, appreciate it.

[steampowered]

If the courier did not deliver the package, that is the shop's problem for them to resolve with the courier, not your problem.

 

Civil claims are decided on a 'balance of probabilities'. If they want to say you received the package I think the onus is on them to provide a tracking number.

 

You shouldn't be daunted by going to court as I think this is a relatively straightforward case. The easiest way to issue a claim is through money claim online. Your particulars of claim can be short, it just needs to describe what has happened in a concise way.

 

Something along the lines of 'The Defendant operates a business selling computer equipment. I entered into a contract with the Defendant to purchase a MacBook laptop computer for the sum of ‎£600. It was agreed that the Defendant would deliver a MacBook to me. I duly paid the agreed sum of ‎£600 to the Defendant via bank transfer. In breach of contract, the Defendant failed to deliver the MacBook as agreed or at all. The Claimant claims damages in the amount of ‎£600, interest and costs.'

 

Are you clear about the identity of the company/person you are suing? Do check that you have the correct company name and whether it is the same company that owns the physical shop.

[Ganymede]

So my question now is, what exactly do I put in the N1 form?

 

When are you 18?

 

You're currently still a minor in the eyes of the law and so may need a Litigation Friend to start the claim on your behalf.

[Hammy1962]

now that was silly.

 

as for chargeback, it doesn't work as described, but then again i'm not a motor mechanic either..

 

pers I think i'd be involving actionfraud and then the police

this is money fraud.

 

dx

 

It's not silly at all, me and maybe other people are interested in the answer.

 

If a bank wants to action a charge back and the original recipients account is closed or there are no funds available, where do the funds come from or is a charge back not then possible?

 

If a description of how a charge back works is needed then that would also be helpful.

 

H

[Takenusername]

If the courier did not deliver the package, that is the shop's problem for them to resolve with the courier, not your problem.

 

Civil claims are decided on a 'balance of probabilities'. If they want to say you received the package I think the onus is on them to provide a tracking number.

 

You shouldn't be daunted by going to court as I think this is a relatively straightforward case. The easiest way to issue a claim is through money claim online. Your particulars of claim can be short, it just needs to describe what has happened in a concise way.

 

Something along the lines of 'The Defendant operates a business selling computer equipment. I entered into a contract with the Defendant to purchase a MacBook laptop computer for the sum of ‎£600. It was agreed that the Defendant would deliver a MacBook to me. I duly paid the agreed sum of ‎£600 to the Defendant via bank transfer. In breach of contract, the Defendant failed to deliver the MacBook as agreed or at all. The Claimant claims damages in the amount of ‎£600, interest and costs.'

 

Are you clear about the identity of the company/person you are suing? Do check that you have the correct company name and whether it is the same company that owns the physical shop.

 

Thank you. I can't use MCOL because you have to be 18 to use that. I'll be 18 in 4 months which I don't really want to wait till. Can I still represent myself if I don't want to use a solicitor?

 

It is the same company and I have their address where they're based.

[Takenusername]

It's not silly at all, me and maybe other people are interested in the answer.

 

If a bank wants to action a charge back and the original recipients account is closed or there are no funds available, where do the funds come from or is a charge back not then possible?

 

If a description of how a charge back works is needed then that would also be helpful.

 

H

 

If the account is closed, obviously they can't do much. The only time a chargeback will work is when there's still money in the account to retrieve.

[Takenusername]

When are you 18?

 

You're currently still a minor in the eyes of the law and so may need a Litigation Friend to start the claim on your behalf.

 

Is this true? I thought i just have to mention 'a child' in my details section after my name according to the notes for n1? Or is that not right?

[steampowered]

Thank you. I can't use MCOL because you have to be 18 to use that. I'll be 18 in 4 months which I don't really want to wait till. Can I still represent myself if I don't want to use a solicitor?

 

It is the same company and I have their address where they're based.

Ganymede was absolutely correct to point out the issue. Unfortunately, I agree the fact you are 17 could cause problems.

 

Have a read of https://www.gov.uk/litigation-friend/overview and https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part21#21.2 to understand the position.

 

In a nutshell the rules say that the only thing a child is allowed to do is issue and serve a claim form, unless they have a litigation friend or they have a court order allowing them to proceed without one (see CPR 21.3 the link I gave you). This rule applies across the board, not just to MCOL.

 

One way of tackling this would be to ask a parent to act as your litigation friend. This would mean that person needs to agree to conduct the litigation on your behalf and file certain documentation at court (see form N235).

 

The other approach would be to issue your claim and then apply for an order under CPR 21.2 (3) allowing you to proceed even though you are technically a child. This would probably mean making an application on form N244 and paying the court fee for that (as you are a student you may be able to claim an exemption from paying the extra fee). As you are very nearly 18 and are very clearly competent, I think most judges would allow you to proceed. You don't need to use a solicitor for this but it does create an extra hoop to jump through.

[hightail]

Wouldn't it make sense to ask whoever was the holder of the ebay account used for the transaction? Don't you have to be over 18 to open one so the OP won't have been using an account in their own name and strictly speaking won't have been the purchaser.

 

 

[Takenusername]

Ganymede was absolutely correct to point out the issue. Unfortunately, I agree the fact you are 17 could cause problems.

 

Have a read of https://www.gov.uk/litigation-friend/overview and https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part21#21.2 to understand the position.

 

In a nutshell the rules say that the only thing a child is allowed to do is issue and serve a claim form, unless they have a litigation friend or they have a court order allowing them to proceed without one (see CPR 21.3 the link I gave you). This rule applies across the board, not just to MCOL.

 

One way of tackling this would be to ask a parent to act as your litigation friend. This would mean that person needs to agree to conduct the litigation on your behalf and file certain documentation at court (see form N235).

 

The other approach would be to issue your claim and then apply for an order under CPR 21.2 (3) allowing you to proceed even though you are technically a child. This would probably mean making an application on form N244 and paying the court fee for that (as you are a student you may be able to claim an exemption from paying the extra fee). As you are very nearly 18 and are very clearly competent, I think most judges would allow you to proceed. You don't need to use a solicitor for this but it does create an extra hoop to jump through.

 

I think I'll issue the claim, and then apply for an order allowing me to proceed. After how long do I send the N244 form from the claim form?

 

Thank you steampowered.

[Takenusername]

Wouldn't it make sense to ask whoever was the holder of the ebay account used for the transaction? Don't you have to be over 18 to open one so the OP won't have been using an account in their own name and strictly speaking won't have been the purchaser.

 

 

 

I have an eBay account but didn't purchase it through eBay, hence I don't get eBay protection. They don't protect buyers if they pay outside of eBay even though I saw the ad on eBay. The sellers own website didn't say anything about age restrictions and I didn't think I was restricted to buying as I'm under 18.

[hightail]

I think you need to take advice from the more knowledgeable types on here as to exactly what you do and don't want to say in this claim- and I'm not one of them. In theory you can't have an Ebay account because to register for one you have to be over 18 so you registered fraudulently. I understand this happened outside of Ebay but it would be a shame if you compromised your claim because you weren't careful in what you said.

[steampowered]

I think I'll issue the claim, and then apply for an order allowing me to proceed. After how long do I send the N244 form from the claim form?

 

Thank you steampowered.

Pretty much immediately.

[Takenusername]

I think you need to take advice from the more knowledgeable types on here as to exactly what you do and don't want to say in this claim- and I'm not one of them. In theory you can't have an Ebay account because to register for one you have to be over 18 so you registered fraudulently. I understand this happened outside of Ebay but it would be a shame if you compromised your claim because you weren't careful in what you said.

 

Thanks hightail, will consider this before sending off the claim.

[Takenusername]

I posted on here months back and was helped previously by a member called steampowered.

 

 

My case has now progressed and I'm not sure how to act,

so again came to this great forum to get some help:)

 

 

for a reminder, I paid for a MacBook Pro online and it wasn't delivered to me and I was not provided a tracking number.

 

 

I recently requested judgement by default and it was accepted (I think) so I've won,

a judge just needs to decide how much I'll be awarded.

 

 

I have a letter here however I'm not sure what to do from here.

Im not sure how to post pictures from here so I can't upload,

 

 

however if anyone wants to see the letter I got from my local court just pm or email me.

 

 

As 3a in the image says,

does this mean I need to send off any evidence I'm relying on such as bank transfer, emails between both parties etc.

 

 

Also do I need to have 3 copies sent off (one to court, one to defendant and one for me) and also do I have to serve these documents to defendant or do I send it to court and they'll do it?

 

Thank you in advance!

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

 

I've sent steampowered a pm regarding this thread, hopefully he will have a look soon.

[martin2006]

Hit the upload link it explains how to, please redact any identifying info first