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maryshell

Is ESA right course of action please

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Hi,

I'm posting for SWIM but I hope you can offer advice.

 

My friend's been on JSA for nearly 12 months, but the truth of it is she doesn't really want a job. She's in one of those benefit trap positions where she lives in London and gets so much housing benefit that if she were to work then she'd have to move out of her flat, because work wouldn't pay.

 

Yep, crazy I know, but that's the reality.

 

However, now she's coming up to a year of signing on, her adviser has referred her to Work Program and is also threatening some sort of Community Payback gig where she'll have to remove graffiti like some sort of common criminal, or volunteer for some immigrant charity which she disagrees with out of principle.

 

So, she was told that if she went to the doctor and said she felt A&D (which apparently is the buzzword for anxious and depressed) then the GP would give her a sick note she could take to her adviser and claim ESA instead which would get her out of any of the nastiness which is being threatened.

Is it really that simple?

 

Just because apparently everyone's doing it, I'm not sure it's right. What about the people who are really depressed?

Edited by citizenB

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I am not too sure you will receive much advice on this question, maryshell.

 

We have a lot of genuinely unwell people visiting CAG - your friend appears to not only not wish to work, but is also quite happy to try and deceive her GP into providing a sick note to avoid any pressure to move back into paid work.

 

You are correct, it is not right and you must be a very special person to put up with a friend like that !

 

.


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I am not too sure you will receive much advice on this question, maryshell.

 

We have a lot of genuinely unwell people visiting CAG - your friend appears to not only not wish to work, but is also quite happy to try and deceive her GP into providing a sick note to avoid any pressure to move back into paid work.

 

You are correct, it is not right and you must be a very special person to put up with a friend like that !

 

.

 

Wow! Easy on the judgement please!

I've read a lot of threads here about people using their skills to thwart JCP and Ingeus, and rightly so too. I was only asking for some advice how to avoid a job for my friend.

Forget it then. Are you a DWP mole CitizenB?

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Submitting a claim knowing it's false from the start could backfire and cause so many issues in the future. It's not advised to do this.

 

The penalties are/could be severe...

 

If your friend claims and fails to stick to the claimants agreement then sanctions are likely.

 

Principles are of no use to anyone. It could be that if the friend then makes a claim they could be getting Universal Credit (UC) then they could be sanctioned for failing to do what the Advisor states. It's a mess waiting to happen. If they did get sanctions then benefits may stop or be reduced. If this happens then debts may follow. Rent arrears for a start.

 

Then you have to worry about the benefits cap. The list goes on and on. Where do you wish to go for further advice ?

 

Just because others are doing it, doesn't mean it's ok for your friend to do it. As you have no idea as to the circumstances of other claimants. If your friend wants to go down this route the please be aware of the consequences of a false claim...

 

Not saying it's true or not but from what has been posted it's looks like your friend is looking for an excuse not to work and that's not good for your friend is it.

 

Please be aware I am not having a go or being judmental about them just pointing out obvious responses you may get...

 

Sorry for that


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Wow! Easy on the judgement please!

I've read a lot of threads here about people using their skills to thwart JCP and Ingeus, and rightly so too. I was only asking for some advice how to avoid a job for my friend.

Forget it then. Are you a DWP mole CitizenB?

 

Interesting, I thought you were of the opinion that your friend was trying to play the system - sounds as though despite your comment "I'm not sure it is right" you are actively wanting to help your friend avoid working !

 

Whilst I deplore the actions/attitude of the JCP/ Igeous - I find it very depressing that people will go to such lengths to avoid working at all ?

 

And, no, I am not a DWP mole


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2: Take back control of your finances -

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3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Looks like I type too slow. But being on a mobile device it's slower anyway.

 

Obviously your thread will be seen as you looking for reasons not to work and others have already picked up on that. citizenB gives great advice and has all the time for posters.

 

May I add the response you gave really sums it all up. No one on CAG worth their salt would advise your friend making a claim to benefits knowing that you are looking for EXCUSES not to work...

 

I am sorry you feel this way...


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Submitting a claim knowing it's false from the start could backfire and cause so many issues in the future. It's not advised to do this.

 

The penalties are/could be severe...

 

If your friend claims and fails to stick to the claimants agreement then sanctions are likely.

 

Principles are of no use to anyone. It could be that if the friend then makes a claim they could be getting Universal Credit (UC) then they could be sanctioned for failing to do what the Advisor states. It's a mess waiting to happen. If they did get sanctions then benefits may stop or be reduced. If this happens then debts may follow. Rent arrears for a start.

 

Then you have to worry about the benefits cap. The list goes on and on. Where do you wish to go for further advice ?

 

Just because others are doing it, doesn't mean it's ok for your friend to do it. As you have no idea as to the circumstances of other claimants. If your friend wants to go down this route the please be aware of the consequences of a false claim...

 

Not saying it's true or not but from what has been posted it's looks like your friend is looking for an excuse not to work and that's not good for your friend is it.

 

Please be aware I am not having a go or being judmental about them just pointing out obvious responses you may get...

 

Sorry for that

 

Ok thanks. A sensible response. I'll feed it back to them.

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maryshell Please be aware that the 'friend' could face some serious questions in regards to the claim they 'may' put in. Also please be aware that DWP may read this forum.

 

 

I would hate to see them get in to serious trouble, this is not worth the risk is it? Please have a look at some of the stickies at the front page of this section you may then also see some answers to your questions. Please see here >> http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?426473-Employment-and-Support-Allowance-(ESA)-Sources-of-Interest-Updated-Oct-2015

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?402903-New-Benefit-Cap-(Updated-December-2015)

 

 

Finally here >> https://www.gov.uk/benefit-fraud


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If your friend is genuinely ill her doctor will treat and advise her.

 

Those of us who try to help our fellow members on here do so out of concern and sympathy for the circumstances they find themselves in.

 

Without appearing to be judge and jury, I have to tell you that I don't know what is more reprehensible, your friend's fraudulent activities, or your cheek in expecting genuine members of this forum to assist her.

  • Haha 1

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Just to let your friend know this could be the outcome 'IF' they went ahead with the false claim read this >> these are the facts.. Please take note that this COULD happen at ANYTIME now or in the future...

 

 

'What happens after a benefit fraud investigation If there’s evidence you’ve committed fraud, one or more of the following may happen:

 

  • you’re taken to court
  • you’re asked to pay a penalty (between £350 and £5,000) instead of going to court
  • your benefits are reduced or stopped
  • you’re told to pay back the overpaid money'


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Your friend will also have to fill in an ESA50 form for a face to face assessment by an independent organisation and that in itself is quite a hurdle to overcome if she is going to claim long term sickness. It is not an easy avenue to go down.

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There's nothing to say she'll even be accepted for ESA. It's not a case of having an illness.

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There's nothing to say she'll even be accepted for ESA. It's not a case of having an illness.

 

Precisely. This needs to be understood: you don't get ESA because you are ill, you get ESA because you have little or no ability to work.


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There are in work benefits to assist those in work and your friend could continue getting HB. But the truth is as you said your friend doesn't want to work. Even if your friend managed to con her way onto ESA then the chances are she could be placed in the Work group which means she could still be mandated to attend the work programme or any course her adviser thinks suitable - in short there would be no advantage. People who abuse the system are the reason genuinely ill people have to jump through hoops to get a small amount of money

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There's also nothing to say her GP would sign her off. I had this problem years ago, despite being quite seriously ill.

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