PIP claim /DLA renewal

[reallymadwoman]

Just thought of a really useful phrase both for the beans on toast issue and the not having specialist dietary input - they used the wrong test.

[jason2723637]

in addition to what RMW said about noting the descriptors also from my understanding you can note how many points you got for each relevant descriptor and what you believe you should of been awarded.

[mikeymack2002]

BTW have you seen this yet >>http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/AAC/2016/11.html

[Nystagmite]

RNIB have created a toolkit on how to asnwer the PIP questions. (I will post this if anyone is interested) It seems to imply that the 4 point descriptor is the same as the cooking test for DLA. Therefore, if you can only cook beans on toast, you can't by their definition, actually cook a meal. And I would agree, it's only a snack.

 

And then there's the things like being able to repeat the task in a reliable and safe manner. I do believe there's something about if it takes you double the amount of time it would take a non-disabled person, you also score points?

[mikeymack2002]

N: It would be a good idea to post the information regardless as this will crop up often..

[Nystagmite]

http://www.rnib.org.uk/personal-independence-payment-toolkit

 

You need to scroll down to the bottom. Because this is aimed at visually impaired people, there's nothing about being able to complete the section on walking.

[mikeymack2002]

This maybe of interest for you too see here >>

[mikeymack2002]

I forgot to mention that there are 5 videos in this sequence so will be worth watching all of them...

[fletch70]

Well I have reviewed the link from HB and decided that I should focus on one area only which is preparing food

This is what i have

Any constructive input would be gratefully received

 

I (name) am appealing against the decision made on 1st Dec 2015 to decline the award of Personal Independence Payment on the grounds that I have not attained the 8 points from the descriptors following my Personal Capability Assessment PIP on 17th November 2015

I believe and I will demonstrate below that by scoring the descriptors relevant to my condition correctly that I do attain the required threshold of 8 points.

 

The Main descriptor that I am challenging is Activity 1 , preparing Food where I scored 0 points.

The DWP guidelines published 28th July 2015 state:

 

This activity considers a claimant’s ability to prepare a simple, cooked meal for one from fresh ingredients. It is not designed to assess a claimant’s culinary skills, but to assess the impact of any impairment on their ability to perform the tasks required to prepare and cook a simple meal. It assesses ability to open packaging, peel and chop, serve food on to a plate and use a microwave oven or cooker hob to cook or heat food. Carrying items around the kitchen is not included in this activity.

 

 

 

 

_____________________

 

I would like to refer the Tribunal to the PA4 V3 as well as the Decision maker’s statement of reasons and the Mandatory Reconsiderations Decision Maker’s reasons

 

Form PA4 V3.

I shall now explain where the report’s content are inaccurate.

 

 

The report does not reflect accurately those matters discussed and assessed at the medical examination at my home on 17th November 2015

 

Referring to the content of the report: Page 10

 

‘Evidence claimed during the assessment included the claim that he does not have difficulties with preparing a simple meal’

 

This is clearly not the case , the following is a transcript of a part of the assessment that I recorded starting at point 1.18.40

 

Self – I know that the definition of a cooked meal is a simple meal is a simple cooked meal from raw ingredients

 

Assessor –Its Fresh ingredients

 

Self - Oh Fresh Ingredients…(interrupted).

 

Assessor – The definition of a simple meal is being able to prepare food from fresh ingredients , a simple meal is not about your culinary expertise.

 

Self –No

 

Assessor- And what’s a simple meal…to you and I beans on toast would be regarded as a simple meal

 

Self – You see I would disagree with …because (interrupted)

 

Assessor – Now You can argue that beans in a can ain’t fresh you know what I mean

 

Self – That’s what I was getting to

 

Assessor - Beans in a can aint fresh but that’s the methodology and mentality

 

Assessor - Are you able, you may not do so, but are you able to peel a potato?

Have you got the manual dextrity and grip to peel a potato ?

 

Self:Yes

 

Assessor: Could you chop a tomato –

 

Self– Probably

 

Assessor: Could you make a sandwich,if you chose to

 

Self- I could

 

Assessor – You don’t typically do that but if you chose to you would have the wherewithal to do that

 

Self - Yes

 

Assessor- That’s the sort of things they need to know

 

Continues…..

 

Self – beans on toast is not a balanced meal by any means

 

Assessor – No You can’t live on beans on toast

 

This is not the only discussion of preparing food however it demonstates the assessors lack of understanding of the assessment process and legislation. I am quite happy to either transcribe further sections or provide the who recording as requested

 

Again on Page 10:

 

‘He also demonstrated unimpaired memory function during the assessment and was able to provide details of his condition and prescribed medication with no obvious difficulties noted’

 

If I was able to list my medication and conditions it was because I had to hand a computer print out of my repeat prescriptions as well as a photocopy of my claim form. I have listened to the whole of the assessment and can find no place where my medication was discussed in detail

 

And page 10 again

‘ He was also observed to be able to maintain a grip against resistance with both hands’

 

As it is stated within the report that no physical examination was done and the only thing that I lifted was my laptop with a weight of 1.58Kg ( Apple technical specifications) I can not see how this statement has any relevance. In addition , my laptop is cold and rectangular so very different from lifting a hot pan.

 

In both the decision letter dated 1st Dec and the mandatory reconsideration letter dated 3rd Februaury there was no reasoning given for the score of 0 points. The only comment made by the D.M. in the letter dated 3rd Feb was that there was no specialist input from a dietician or food supplement prescribed.

 

I have consistantly explained that I do not cook for myself and the reasons for it, in letters dated 17th September and 14th December my partner explained that he does all the cooking so that I eat food other than snacks or processed ready meals

In my claim form I stated that if I cook it is processed ready meals because if I try to cook I let pans burn dry or forget to leave turn the hob or oven off.

 

As has been the case for many months now I do not cook what fits the DWP description of a simple one course meal. The meals I do eat are either , bought and cooked for me at University or cooked for me by my partner. Occassionaly I will heat a ready meal up in the microwave or warm a pasty up, again in the microwave.

The reasons that I do not cook are several fold

1. I lack the motivation to cook and just can not face the struggle of preparing the food as needed. When I arrive home from University I am emotionally and physically tired which means that for some time I just do not have the will to cook.

2. In the past when I have used a cooker I have either left the hob or oven on long after it is needed. I have had to contact a neighbour to go into my flat to check if the oven was left on because I had left the flat and could not remember. When with my partner I have left the gas hob burning which has been found some time later.

3. Eating meals , although important in management of my diabetes frequently exacerbates my I.B.S. I usually have to use the toilet several times soon after eating a meal although there is no way to predict this. As a result I do not eat breakfast before I leave for University or meals when I know I have to leave the house. My IBS has caused me some great embarrassments due to eating and I have now had to modify my eating and life to cope with this.

 




 

When scoring the Personal Independence Payment Consultation report I feel that both the Assessor and Decision Makers have over-estimated my level of ability. By revising the Score card to take account of my actual Physical and Mental Health conditions, I am of the view that I satisfy the threshold of 8 points required for the award.

 

 

Conclusion

 

In conclusion, I believe that the scoring of my Personal Independence Assessment should be revised to take account of my actual Physical and Mental Health abilities.

 

I hope the Tribunal will support and find in favour of my appeal,

 

 

 

 

 

_________________________ _________________

 

I declare that the content of this Summary forms the basis for my appeal and that the information is correct and complete as far as I know and believe.

[Nystagmite]

When I arrive home from University I am emotionally and physically tired which means that for some time I just do not have the will to cook.

 

They may argue this is true for a lot of students.

[reallymadwoman]

I'm not clear from your submission why you can't cook. Whilst no doubt it is obvious from other information, e.g. the original claim form, it ought to be spelled out in your submissions as well. Look back to my previous post on the subject and remember to mention reliability and frequency as well.

[fletch70]

Thanks for the input

I will re do and try to make it clear so that it can be looked at without having to cross reference , might be tomorrow now as I can not concentrate very well now.

[mikeymack2002]

Peeling a potato is no easy task especially if the hands holding the item do not have the grip of an able bodied person. Also if the grip is not firm enough there is a real danger of the hand holding the peeler could slip and slice deep in to the wrist of the hand holding the potato.

 

 

The same goes for drinking hot drinks, please remind them that the cups in McDonalds have a health and safety warning on them. The same goes for cooking pots and pans, in as much as if the pan does not have a rubberised grip these too can slip from the grasp. Lets go further using the same argument for a kettle, mine has a rubberised handle so the weight of it does not tip forwards or backwards and scold me in the process. (These are ALL aids)

 

Bending over to check the oven is also another issue. Same reasons for when talking hot items from the oven. Let me explain. Many a time when I have been in the kitchen trying to prepare a full meal that has to be done in the oven, I would more often than not open the oven door, then take out the hot item from within, I would baste it and then return it to the oven for further cooking. Right? No WRONG I would do this task without me using the aid of oven gloves. Once I have put the hot item back my daughter would say 'dad please use the gloves that's why I bought them, (memory issues)...

 

 

This aid is used by everyone that cooks in the oven I will normally forget to use them, even though I know the item is very hot I still forget, so therefore I do not do this in a safe manner. Its quite unnerving for my daughter to watch me do this without reminding me to use the aid. Even though its right there in front of me. I still forget.... Peeling and chopping onions, what can go wrong with that? Lots! What about stirring a hot cup of coffee again lots.

 

 

How easy is it to follow a recipe? Hard or easy? You guessed it hard, especially if you have memory issues and find it hard to follow SIMPLE instructions.. Ok lets go for an easy one then what about shaving? Well maybe not. Or what about getting dressed? Is this easy? Nope!!!! Tying laces? Remembering to take your house keys with you? As you can guess I have these issues all day everyday.... But I manage with the help of my little girl and some dear good old neighbours...

 

 

Finally taking medication. Far from easy IMHO, especially because you know your meds the Dr's often make mistakes, I.E. over prescribing the wrong dosage, triple in my case for 7 weeks, This was for my Phenytoin, (epilepsy) the old codger tripled them from 3x100 3 times a day to 3x300 3 times a day. The Dr knows best until my daughter hit the roof, and me in to a Hospital bed.

 

 

This is me being open which is rare, but I think showing just how much a simple task can be a nightmare in the wrong hands (me).... As a departing thought what about lighting up something so simple as a cigarette? Well this one is still bad for me, why because I think time to light up, I reach in to my pocket grab the box of smokes, open it take one out and light it. All done, NOT!! This is/was all done when standing in the middle of the road with cars bearing down on me.. Not good and definitely not safe why because you forgot your surroundings and your safety.... A very easy task made hard.

 

 

Please do not think that I am making this all up I am not, it happens every single day for me... (many times I might add)

[daverules]

Hello

mickeymac I welcome your candid response and totally understand where you are coming from.

 

I recall only last week where I went for an hospital appointment and it was with a new doctor, she

prescribed a new drug for me and I blindly accepted it, fortunately for me and not so fortunate for

the doctor who was on the receiving end of my sister's tongue lashing who helps me cope with

appointments and medication, as my sister pointed out to the doctor that what was prescribed

can cause kidney damage/problems and as I only have the one kidney and this only works at

90% with a JJ stent in it to keep it working the medication prescribed would have caused me

severe harm.

 

A lot of medication I take to maintain what health I have causes me to become forgetful

and therefore I do not cook as I am more likely to burn the house down.

 

Is it the fact I can't cook or it's not safe for me to cook?

 

The fact is with my list of 6 problems, mainly physical but to a large degree mental health

I do not attempt to cook for my own safety along with others safety.

 

Regards

[fletch70]

Thanks

I must say I hate writing this appeal because I feel that I will either be thought of as a liar or an idiot. When you really do not do something you forget hat the problems are. I genuinely can not remember the last time I cooked a meal and it's not because I am a middle aged man who can't cook, which is I think an assumption people make. For many years I was a career for my ex wife and did all the cooking so I was perfectly able to do it.

As for peeling a spud, again I just don't so have no idea if I could although on the last few efforts , some time ago I can't.

 

I am going to use examples of memory issues such as having to leave a key to my flat in the communal areas because of the times I pop out and forget my keys. Taking medication is also a nightmare, only today, even with a phone alarm I forgot my mid day pills . It was not until 5pm when I put my hand in my pocket and found them. This has happened twice in 3 days

 

As I am going out tomorrow I am getting everything ready, bag packed, pills packed, wallet, bs ticket etc so I can get up and go because if I don't I will sit down with a cuppa and non off, quite possibly with the drink in my hand. Yesterday I tried to watch an episode of war and peace, took me about 3 hours because I kept nodding off. I even nod off in lectures !

 

It is also assumed that because I am a mature undergraduate I can remember things etc yet when most people can write an essay in say 8 hours it takes me 4 or 5 times that length of time but there is no where to explain that and it does not fit the criteria.

 

Now I write this there could be a whole lot more to include

[mikeymack2002]

The idea for my openness was to show you that at 54 things are or can be very hard. There is a particular reason for me but this is different for others. I the other reason for my post was to show just how simple things in life can be EXTREMELY difficult. How can I write like I do on CAG? simple I had to learn how to be a man again. I had to learn everything from scratch again.

 

 

For me this is easy, but ask me what I did this morning? That is almost impossible for me to recall. I too have to have a key safe at my home as far too often I forget. I have even produced a letter to myself to read every time I leave home. Is wearing a tee-shirt and shorts reasonable in the middle of winter? Of course not but I do as I forget. I could list so much that most take for granted in their daily lives....

[mikeymack2002]

As for meds have you tried this? >> http://medids.com/PILL-MATE.html#.VsJKyiZWI2w

[mikeymack2002]

In post #58 have you got a PA to take notes for you if not look into this as well, this will also assist you when it comes to needing AIDS to assist you in everyday needs....

[fletch70]

Mikey

 

With ALL the respect that is due

This is what makes me feel like a complete fraud, compared to so many people I am well and healthy yet I then remind myself that without having to even exaggerate I was awarded 7 points

 

I think the legislation is completely flawed although I am not sure how to fix it, saying that I am lucky to have my family and partner who support me and whom I can trust. My sister has my bank card which when student finance is paid in has c 4K in it but I trust her 100%. My partner puts up with me taking 30 tablets a day and my IBS as well as cooking for me most nights, Oh and I am a moody miserable bugger as well

[mikeymack2002]

Having followed this thread for a while its exactly why I have said what I have in the last few posts, its to give you an idea how your situation affect you,,, by giving you an idea how things affect me...

 

May I remind you that when you complete the form you are stating the truth as it affects you not anyone else.. You should not feel a fraud because someone else's condition affects them differently.... Each case is decided on it's own merits ok!

[Nystagmite]

Is it the fact I can't cook or it's not safe for me to cook?

 

They're not testing your ability to cook as such. It's more things like can you follow insructions to cook a meal, can you tell if anything has gone off before you use it, do you burn yourself, do you remember to turn the cooker off once you've finished using it, can you tell if you've cooked food properly, (not burning it!) etc.

[reallymadwoman]

Is it the fact I can't cook or it's not safe for me to cook?

 

 

It could be both - are you physically able to carry out the tasks needed to prepare and cook food, e.g. chopping, peeling, lifting hot/heavy items, and do you have motivation, memory and concentration to do those tasks? Even if you do, can you do them reliably, i.e. safely (the risk has to be to you or another person, not property, though setting fire to the oven clearly covers both!), to a reasonable standard (you're not going to poison yourself by eating underdone meat etc), as often as necessary (if you prepare lunch would you then be in too much pain to prepare dinner for example) and in a reasonable time.

 

An example of what you might write is :-

 

Because of sleep apnea and pain I do not sleep well and am always tired, which impairs my memory and concentration. The side effects of my pain medication also impair my memory and concentration. If I'm stressed or anxious I am easily distracted and forget what I am doing. Particularly when I am tired I completely lack any motivation to cook or eat and will only eat if food is put in front of me and I am nagged into eating it.

When I remember to use it, I have a timer to help me keep track of when food will be cooked. I also have a combination grill/microwave which switches itself off automatically so I can no longer forget to turn the grill off in particular.

In the last month I have left the oven on twice and left the hob on and put the pan back down on the hot part three times despite always being supervised. I have previously been banned from using the grill in the cooker after the third time I closed the door without turning it off and set fire to it. I have also forgotten to close the freezer door, forgotten to put things back in the fridge and regularly cut myself because I'm not paying attention to what I am doing. I am also at high risk of burns and scalds due to dropping or spilling things. I am no longer allowed to prepare or cook food unsupervised because of the risk of injury to myself or the rest of the household.

If I try to prepare even a very simple meal, I get very tired halfway through and someone else regularly has to complete the task for me. If I've prepared some lunch, I will be too tired to prepare dinner.

I cannot therefore safely prepare food unsupervised on any occasion and I cannot prepare food as often as necessary. If I had to prepare a whole meal, it would probably take me all day as I would need to keep resting, so I cannot prepare and cook food in a reasonable time. As I have no sense of smell, I cannot tell if food is off and cannot rely on sell by dates due to how often I forget to put things in the fridge so I cannot prepare and cook food to a reasonable standard unless someone else checks that it isn't 'off'.

For this activity, I cannot ever reliably prepare and cook a simple meal.

 

If this were a real case, I'd also be arguing for some points for taking nutrition (has to be nagged to eat) and any other descriptor where I felt similar issues would arise so that the claim is consistent, otherwise the tribunal might well be asking why it hasn't been at least mentioned.

You also need to make it clear that you're still entitled to the points you've already been awarded and provide the evidence, e.g. as stated in the HCPs report, I need an aid to xxxx and therefore score xx points for this activity.

[fletch70]

I appreciate all the help that I am being given

Although I am including other things the following on food is my main concern

1. I lack the motivation to cook and just cannot face the struggle of preparing the food as needed. When I arrive home from University I am emotionally and physically tired which means that for some time I just do not have the will to cook. This is made worse because of my recorded stress and anxiety as well as my medication so that the few hours at University mean the rest of the day is taken up recuperating. As I am at University 4 days a week and rarely have the energy to study when I get in the other 3 days of the week get taken up with study which in turn makes the cooking impossible.

2. If I try to cook even the most basic meal I get stressed and flustered, this means that I frequently give up the effort and my partner needs to take over. What I have to do is prepare anything I want and lay it out and do one thing at a time if I try to coordinate it does not work so for example the veg would be done a long time before the pie was hot, or the other way round.

3. In the past, as recorded on my claim form, when I have used a cooker I has either left the hob or oven on long after it is needed. I have had to contact a neighbour to go into my flat to check if the oven was left on because I had left the flat and could not remember. When with my partner I have left the gas hob burning which has been found some time later. When cooking I always set the timer on the oven however if I go and sit down while I wait for something to cook I can either forget about it or fall asleep . Some of the events that have happened include, forgetting food under the grill so that it burst into flame, I was warned by the smoke detector, after warming up a bought pie in the oven I left the oven on for several hours, this is in addition to actually going out and leaving the oven on. I was heating some soup on the hob but forgot about it, the soup burnt and the smoke detector went off. These are just examples of what has happened but are the reason why I do not use the cooker when at home any more. At my partners, I put a pan of water on to boil and forgot about it, it boiled dry on the gas hob.

4. Even a simple task of making a hot drink is difficult in that it can take me a long time because I will put the kettle on and then forget it so when I do remember I have to start the process again. I leave the milk out of the fridge because I forget to put it back i.e because I am doing one job such as pouring my tea I can forget. If I sit down with a cup of tea I often nod off and spill the tea on myself .

5. Although not directly connected with cooking I have lost count of the number of times I have locked myself out of my flat, fortunately my landlord lives in the same block and has spare keys although it has become so frequent that I have now hidden a key to my front door within the communal areas of my block so that when I lock myself out, I can gain access as long as I can get into the communal area.

6. I know I was asked if I could peel a potato and replied probably I am not sure that I was being quite honest. I do not peel potatoes because in the past I have cut myself when the peeler slipped. I would never peel a potato with a knife.

7. I have to take extra care when washing up because I forget what is in the bowl and have put my hand around a sharp knife. I have also broken countless glasses while trying to wash them and cut my hand several times although only once seriously enough to need stiches.

8. Because of my medication, I am frequently extremely tired and if I sit down I fall asleep. I even doze off in lectures at University and have to be nudged . If I sit down with a drink I can doze off with it in my hand and spill it

9. Eating meals, although important in management of my diabetes frequently exacerbates my I.B.S. I usually have to use the toilet several times soon after eating a meal although there is no way to predict this. As a result I do not eat breakfast before I leave for University or meals when I know I have to leave the house. My IBS has caused me some great embarrassments due to eating and I have now had to modify my eating and life to cope with this.

 

 

To summarise

Because of my medication I seem to be always tired and lack concentration . I lack the motivation to eat . because of safety reasons I now use a toaster for toast as opposed to a gril and a combination microwave/oven that turns itself off after a set time. The meals I eat are either cooked for me at college or by my partner , in the evening I will often only eat because I am nagged to eat something and it is put in front of me.

[fletch70]

As for meds have you tried this? >> http://medids.com/PILL-MATE.html#.VsJKyiZWI2w

Thanks Mikey

 

I currently have 4 7 day 4 a day boxes

1 like this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tablet-Medicine-Storage-Organizer-Container/dp/B00IE4AQ1W/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1455656876&sr=8-2&keywords=pill+case

 

2 like this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Age-UK-AU019-Pill-Wallet/dp/B004I4EPGY/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1455656937&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=age+concern+pill+case

 

And an old one

 

I then have i with just 4 compartments in it that I use if I am out for the day.

 

I have been in the library today and at 5 pm I found my lunchtime pills not taken , thats 3 days out of 4 , because I am out of routine

 

When my ex used to say that the diuretics drove her mad I thought she was exagerating , I take 1 a day and need to spend the next 3 hours going to the loo, she took them 3 times a day. No wonder she never left the house

[fletch70]

In post #58 have you got a PA to take notes for you if not look into this as well, this will also assist you when it comes to needing AIDS to assist you in everyday needs....

 

In answer to that one

No although I have a program called audio notetaker that records lectures and lets me type notes in as well as syncing them all with a powerpoint.

 

When the original form was filled in the 'advisor' dismissed them as an aid to learning and didn't include it. I ignored her 'help' and scored 2 points for it

I also have a text speech software and Irlens glasses