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fletch70

PIP descriptor on taking and managing therapy

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I am looking for help on an appeal. The most obvious route is to increase my point on the managing therapy/monitoring a health condition

 

Does anyone have insight into what the criteria are as it seems a little wishy washy to me (that a technical term)

 

What is it that kicks it from 1 point to 2

 

I take a lot of tablets that are set up in a dosette box divided into 4 times a day.

I have an alarm set on my phone to remind me to take my tablets , even with this i often forget

 

I also have other 'talking' and 'support' therapies

 

Any help would be gratefully received


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Do you need someone to sort the drugs into the compartments for you, or remind you take the drugs ? What harm would result if you were to miss taking a dosage ?


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Hi Citizen B

 

Well I suppose the harm that would happen is that as a type 2 diabetic my condition would deteriorate , the other pills include antidepressants painkillers etc . I will need to think about that


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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No matter how much harm would be caused if you missed a tablet or took too many, you can only score 1 point for managing medication.

 

To score any more than 1 for this descriptor, you need to have been prescribed (by a healthcare professional, doesn't matter what sort) therapy to be done at home with which you need help. It is the time for which you need help that counts, not how long the therapy takes.

 

E.g. you need help doing your physio exercises for 30 minutes every day = 3.5 hours per week but if you only needed 10 minutes help to set up a TENs machine which you then used for 45 minutes, only the 10 minutes per day would count. Applying cream is medication, not therapy (recent tribunal case) so can only attract 1 point regardless of how long it takes.

 

For monitoring a health condition, the person monitoring you has to be looking for something specific not just generally asking how you are. E.g. you might have a traffic light plan to monitor your mood where your carer takes specific actions according to the level they think you're at, such as contacting CMHT, or it could be regular checking of your feet for injuries, checking blood glucose etc. Again, you must need help to monitor your condition, and it is the time that help is needed for that counts.


RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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I have been posting some useful information here and maybe of use to you see here >> http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?153-Special-needs-Disability-etc


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It does seem as if the medication question has been tightened and as such it will be almost impossible for me to score more than 1 point.

 

It looks like I will need to look at the preparing food although the criteria seems to be if you can open a bag of crisps you can prepare a meal. I kid you not, that example was used by someone from Capita when discussing that descriptor.


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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One of the answers you could give is that you get your meds from the Pharmacist in blister packs, If you do, this is an aid tbh. Reading the questions is very easy. The hard part is answering them CORRECTLY in the first place...

 

 

Here is one of them. Can you raise from a chair/seat without assistance or an aid? Now this is an easy question isn't it? No wrong answer. You may try this yourself if you wish. You sit in a single seater chair in a comfortable position. You now have to stand up without (a) holding on to the arms for support. (b) raise to the standing position without moving from the middle of the seat to a standing position. © This must be done in one swift movement. If you need to place you hands on the arms to assist you then this is an aid is it not? This is why they are their. The same goes when you sit on the loo. ( I cannot do this either) I need support from an aid. Or run the risk of falling over. ( I have a falls monitor that I wear (an aid) it is this simple at times but you forget this is an aid. Now do the same on a settee whilst sitting in the middle...

 

 

Taking an item of the shelf is another. Then so on. It is also asked of you if it safe for you to do one thing or another. In your example preparing food. There could be issues of you using a sharp knife, or you forgetting you have food cooking and it burns. Or that the pan is difficult for you to hold because of the weight, then the safety issues of moving very hot/boiling items from A to B and so on.

 

 

As far as your comment about Crapita take no notice. As you can see from above simply opening an item may be hard in its self! How? your grip may not be good and you have difficulty in holding say something like bleach, why is this dangerous? You may drop it (grip) you may squeeze the bottle too hard when opening it and it goes in your face.

 

 

Moving a kettle from A-B could becomes dodgy because of the weigh issue or simply because its hot you turn and your grip relaxes and you drop it. Forgetting to turn off the cooker because you have memory issues. TBH you really need to take a look at the things you do everyday and see where it is you have a weakness...

 

 

Finally I have a litter picker to use if I drop something small on the floor why? because I could fall over and not get up (hence the falls monitor) Which is used often I am afraid to say....


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IIt looks like I will need to look at the preparing food although the criteria seems to be if you can open a bag of crisps you can prepare a meal. I kid you not, that example was used by someone from Capita when discussing that descriptor.

 

But if you look at the criteria, you do get points if you can use a microwave; but not an oven. I seem to remember some disabled people were rightfully complaining because it seemed as though DWP were saying it was ok for us to live on microwave meals, even though some of us have dietary needs and then there's the costs. I do wonder where that leaves me - I do have one of those table top ovens where you set the time and not a proper one where you put your food in and have to check when it's done. Still doesn't stop me from not cooking my food properly!

 

You also need to consider how often you can carry out the task. If you need help at least 50% of the time, you can score points. But I get the impression you're trying too hard to see where you can score points.

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I know what the criteria say but it is how they are interpreted by the Dwp etc. If the criteria about preparing a meal were used correctly I wouldn't be needing to go to appeal.

As for your impression, well only a fool.wouldnt look at the descriptors to see which apply. There are several thst don't apply to me and it would be immoral as well as illegal to misrepresent my case and pretend that they do.

By fully understanding how the points are scored you can answer the questions correctly. As I only need 1 more point to qualify it seems logical to focus on where that point can come from.


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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The only way to see if you may qualify for more points if for you to copy the descriptors to pc in word answer them in red then save as pdf then post them here for further advice.... This way we can see how you answered the questions. But that is up to you.

 

We do a similar thing in the debt forum for someone gets a claim form...


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Thanks but that in itself is too late. I achieved 5 points on assessment and 7 on MR so next move is tribunal . I will need to submit my appeal submission sometime soon.

 

After reading what RMW said the only section that I can reasonably expect to score points on is the preparing food

My argument is two fold

1) I lack the motivation to prepare a meal eat although this is overcome by the fact that I can buy a hot meal at University on the days I am there and on other days my partner will cook

2) When I do use the hob/oven on the majority of times I either forget to turn it off or leave things to burn/boil dry hence I rely on ready meals and food that does not need cooking.

 

There appear to have been some serious changes in the way capita and the dwp manage this question. At the assessment I was asked if I could do beans on toast which apparently is what they classify as a simple one course meal from fresh ingredients.

 

There are other questions that if you look at logically and take them on face value I would possibly gain points on but to be honest I would feel a fraud if i used those , in addition I would need to explain why my appeal included info that was not in the original appeal


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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If you look at the criteria regarding preparing a meal, they think it's reasonable to use a microwave. You can score points there if you can one, but not a cooker.

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Fletch70 do you require an assistant to take notes for you at University? If so you could have used this as well...


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Mikey I have various prices of assisting technology and scored two points for understanding complex material. Thanks for the thought though


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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I don't know if you've seen the assessment guide for PIP (can't provide a link as I access it through a paid site, but it's probably on GOV.co.uk somewhere) but it does go into some detail as to what constitutes 'preparing and cooking food'. That says that 'Preparing food' means the activities required to make food ready for cooking and eating, such as peeling and chopping, which would seem to exclude beans on toast as being a suitable example of a simple meal. 'Cooking food' means heating food at or above waist height using a microwave or on a hob - needing to bend to use an oven is specificially excluded. They also mention serving food, which means transferring food to a plate or bowl, but exclude carrying it to where it will be eaten.

Also, some expansion is given for each of the potential points, e.g. for 2 points you would reasonably need to use an aid such as lever taps, easy grip handles etc, or alternatively you can score 2 points if you need prompting to prepare or cook.

If you need supervision, then the score increases to 4 points, and that would include someone following behind to make sure you've turned the hob off. We used to have a gas hob so it was fairly obvious when I'd left it on but we now have an induction hob and not only is it much less obvious when it's on - you can't see it just by a quick glance from the door for example - I do have a habit of making it harder by putting the empty pan back down thus making sure it's a disaster waiting to happen.

There's also quite a lot on reliability, including a worked example featuring this activity.

It's well worth finding the guide and having a read, then work out how it might apply to you and what evidence might help - I hope you have a statement from your partner, after all they are usually the person who knows better than anyone how your disability affects you.


RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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Thank you both so much

 

I will include the relevant pages in my appeal .

 

I know it may be inadmissible but I do have a recording of my assessment that was done at home where the assessor stated that beans on toast was a meal and this was the question he asked me . I really want to focus my appeal on the areas where I feel the points given are wrong.

 

I will have to have a read but I think that the cooking and preparing food will be the one with the greatest chance of success

 

Just for the record my score is

1pt for medication

2pts for understanding complex written information

2pts for managing money (sadly I am a recovering -rather badly compulsive gambler hence my sister looks after my grant etc and pays day to day expenses into my current account each week)

2pts for managing incontinence ( I suffer from quite nasty IBS for which I am on prescription medication . Stress causes problems particularly at night when I am asleep, I have so far been reluctant to post that little gem )

 

I take a variety of anti depressants, painkillers ,IBS medication, anti anxiety medication , metformin for diabetes and furosemide for water retention . It works out about 25+ tablets a day as well as fybrogel .

I am frankly so scared of stopping some of the pills because it has taken me a while to get on an even ish keel

 

The other 'problem' that complicates things is that although I rent my own flat and do spend time there most days of the week I spend most nights with my partner who works full time. It is fairly rare that I do cook a meal for myself as my partner is very good and cooks most evenings for me. The problem is explaining this without falling foul of any cohabiting rules

One reason we live this way is because of my extensive debt and defaults on my credit file whereas my OH has a perfect credit file , the other , and main one is that I like having my own space . Maybe one day we will tie the knot in some way but certainly not until I have graduated which is another 21/2 years


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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I think that if the tribunal accept that you at least need prompting to be bothered to cook a proper meal (and they won't accept beans on toast as a proper meal, that's barely more than a ready meal!) you should gain the necessary extra points fairly easily - I think you probably qualify for 4 points rather than 2 and should word your appeal accordingly - there's no need to state where your partner cooks for you, just that the only proper meals you eat are those that are cooked for you whether by partner or university staff.

You must explain in detail why you don't cook for yourself and how that relates to any/all of your conditions and/or medication or side effects thereof. For example, as well as lacking motivation to cook, do you perhaps avoid eating if you have to go out in case it triggers an embarrassing incident related to the IBS?

I would certainly mention the beans on toast on the grounds that it casts doubt on the validity of the assessment as the HCP clearly wasn't applying the right criteria. You could probably also justify transcribing that part of the recording word for word and including it. The tribunal will probably accept it without having to listen to the actual recording and unless someone at the DWP is really paying attention, I doubt anyone will even question how you might have come by that recording.


RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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Thank you . I'll be working on my appeal submission this week.


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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When you write your appeal, you need to write something like why you can't do the activity and what happened the last time you tried.

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As a side note from your posts is that you stay most nights what do you mean by this? Do you sleep over most nights or stay till your partner goes to bed then you go home?

 

I ask this because you could be opening a whole new can of worms here...

 

Also as to your bills and financial arrangements how many bills are registered at your partners address?


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All my bills are registered at my address including my uni address. All my partners bills are at his address including work address. Neither of us are registered as next of kin.

 

As for sleeping arrangements, that is my concern.


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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The reason for the delicate enquiry was to find out how many nights a stop over happens so to speak. The DWP have rules regarding this arrangement sorry for asking.

 

Also it could be that it could be seen as they could be a sort of carer and checking on you at least once a night for at least 20 mins but I'll say no more on this sorry to offend... you can look this up yourself to see what I mean...


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No offence taken. Maybe we are looking at this differently I'm not sure. My worry is the cohabitation rule or the perception.


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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i don't know if this applies as I have only experience claiming ESA but like ESA I would think get supporting medical evidence especially from your GP letter stating the same descriptors your trying to work out in order to score high enough in your PIP appeal though from your knowledge on ESA as seen on other threads im sure you already know this best of luck

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