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Uriah Heap

What rights have Ingeus got ?

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If your adviser continues to harass you, because that is what it is, you might consider sending them a complaint letter along the following lines:

 

The Manager

[use Name if known]

[Full Address of WP Premises]

 

Date:

 

Subject: Harassment

 

Dear Manager,

I, [Your Name and N.I. Number], hereby formally bring to your attention my objection to the activities of your adviser, [Adviser Name], which I regard as harassment and ask that you take the necessary steps to make her cease and desist.

 

I have already informed you offices as well as JCP office of my current circumstances which she chooses to ignore.

 

I would ordinarily be grateful for any constructive assistance in finding satisfactory and secure employment and constructive suggestions to enhance the prospect would be gratefully received and acted upon. However I find it difficult to accept that someone who does not know and chooses to ignore my circumstances can presume to expect me to be at her beck and call at any unspecified time outside of my pre-arranged appointments and outwith any mandatory activities already agreed.

 

Her unsolicited calls do nothing to enhance any prospect I might have of obtaining employment, on the contrary they leave me feeling anxious, threatened and distressed. It is also humiliating to be treated with such contempt.

I regard her behaviour as harassment and a blatant breach of the Civil Service Code of Conduct and as such she should be disciplined accordingly and appropriately.

 

Furthermore her action is in breach of Section 7(2) of The Protection From Harassment Act 1997:

 

7(2) References to harassing a person include alarming the person or causing the person distress.

 

and Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights:

 

Article 8 – Right to respect for private and family life

 

1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.

 

2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

Please be assured that unless you act on this, and with immediate effect, I am prepared to take the further steps that the law allows, up to and including having officers of the law attend on you at your offices with arrest warrants, if necessary, on charges of harassment, which, you will be aware, is a criminal offence under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, and carries a sentence, if convicted, of up to 5 years.

 

Sincerely;

 

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Thanks LW that's a great letter. I'll use that if they come on again.

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[/font][/color][/b]Please be assured that unless you act on this, and with immediate effect, I am prepared to take the further steps that the law allows, up to and including having officers of the law attend on you at your offices with arrest warrants, if necessary, on charges of harassment, which, you will be aware, is a criminal offence under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, and carries a sentence, if convicted, of up to 5 years.

 

Would advise against using the last paragraph as it stands. Keep it short and to the point:

 

Should you fail to take the appropriate action, I will be making a formal complaint to the police under the Protection from Harassment Act.

 

With any letter of complaint, it is wise to keep it short, to the point, and avoid quoting vast chunks of the law books. One side of paper is sufficient, any more and you risk boring the reader.


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Morning People,

I've had a letter this morning from Ingeus telling me when i need to go in there next.

The note i got from my Gp for a month was on the 12th, so taking me to 12 March

Letter says.....

This letter contains the details of your next appointment. We look forward to seeing you again and continuing to support you to find the right job.

Your appointment will be Wed 2nd March.

Actions to be completed ahead of your next appointment.

Appointment with steps to work advisor to discuss transition to ESA.

Please ensure you bring evidence to show you have completed the above activity to your next appointment where applicable.

This is a mandatory appointment. .If you do not undertake the activities required in this notification your benefit could be affected. This activity forms part of your work-related activity action plan.

It is very important that you attend all appointments. If you cannot attend please contact us as soon as possible so that arrangements.

 

If i'm still in the period when i'm 'signed-off', and not having to go to the JobCentre surely the same applies to Ingeus.

What evidence are they asking me to bring ...... The note fom my doctor ?? That's already with the JC. And what actions are they asking me to complete before i go in there ?

I thought of doing a short note reminding them that i'm sick and will see them again when my doctor says i'm fit for work.

Edited by Uriah Heap

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If i'm still in the period when i'm 'signed-off', and not having to go to the JobCentre surely the same applies to Ingeus.

 

Ingeus should work to the same standard and rules as the DWP (although they do like to make things up as they go along). I would suggest getting in contact with the Job Centre and get it in writing that you do not have to attend any mandatory activity. With that in hand, you can give this "advisor" some advice on the subject of harassment.


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Mr P.

 

Re construction of complaint letter:

 

Thank you for your comments. Allow me to share with you my objective in constructing and delivering such a letter at the earliest opportunity.

 

I. In every letter sent out by JCP, or Providers of all sorts, however long or short the message they are trying to convey to the recipient, the full panoply of what they are going to do to you if you fail to comply with their wishes to the letter is included. It causes anxiety and distress in the recipient because it has the air of a legal document about it, with implications attached, even if it has no legal weight. That is the decided and proclaimed policy of the DWP.

 

I believe that by adding what I am prepared to do in language that encourages attention and action is likely to have the same effect on the recipient. Rest assured, if they detect weakness they will exploit it. Remember, at this stage we are dealing with people with little or no grasp of the laws and regulations. They blindly follow the instructions of their superiors, who will be the first to throw them to the wolves when the going gets tough.

 

2. The complaints procedure has been subtly changed in the past year or so to include a complaints process, then a Mandatory Reconsideration process, where so called independent decision makers get involved, before one can even contemplate making a request for an appeal. This has the effect of dragging out the whole process to such an extent that claimants invariably give up in frustration and despair. That too is the decided and proclaimed policy of the DWP. Witness the drop in the number of cases that are now brought to appeal, I haven't got the figures to hand, but it is a staggering reduction. The point here is that the sooner one starts the process and makes it clear that one means business the sooner the matter can be resolved.

 

3. Pussyfooting about from the start encourages the sort of arrogance and contempt that you speak of where the recipient is going to ignore the complaint. The Ingeus thread on here has over 6,000 posts in it, there any many thousands more in other threads. Lost count of the number of times it has been said how bad they are, how they ignore the law, how they get away with breaking all the rules. After five or six years of fighting them if the best we can do is to repeat all that and moan and sulk about it then it's high time to give up. Only positive, determined action works, if more of us took the necessary action years ago we would not still be wittering on amongst ourselves about it.

If the recipient is too bored to read the complaint letter in full and act on it then as sure as night follows day s/he will live to regret it. If the matter ends up at a tribunal and the Judge asks why the points raised in the initial complaint letter were not addressed, what is the response going to be; "I was too bored to read it". Win win for the complainant, I think.

 

4. Read any Tribunal Appeal Report and you will find the appropriate sections of the law quoted verbatim, not only that but a thorough interpretation is given. Surely the Judge isn't going to think that those whom it may concern are going to say "Too boring, I'm going to ignore all this".

 

5. A concise exposition of the complaint, and the implications of ignoring it, therefore, is of prime importance. The idea is to impress on the recipient that choosing to ignore the complaint is not an option, they do so at their peril. That is why I suggest naming the culprit and the person you hold responsible for rectifying the matter at the top of the letter. Leave them in no doubt as to who will suffer the repercussions. Those people have their own interests foremost in their minds. Obviously, if they are under the impression that the matter does not concern them directly, they may choose to ignore it. It is not boring for those involved.

 

6. At the initial stage of the complaint it is much easier for those directly involved to resolve the issues involved in-house and with a minimum of fuss and without progressing them to superiors or outside influences, where loss of face, loss of jobs, hefty financial penalties, may result. That too is why I believe it is important to name names wherever possible, leaving no doubt as to who is going to be held to account and suffer any repercussions emanating from a failure to address the issues.

 

Finally, your alternative to my phraseology suggests a foregone conclusion; "I will be making...." suggest a decided course of action which, if not followed through, would indicate either bluffing or a less than a committed determination to pursue the matter. My phraseology merely suggests that I am ready, willing and able, prepared, to proceed to the next stage but it is still up to them to resolve the matter at this stage without having to take it further.

 

The length of the letter is immaterial, the contents is the main thing. The recipient must be left in no doubt about the sender's ability and determination to take this issue to the wire. As I've already said, at some stage this letter may be used as evidence. Hopefully that means evidence favourable to the complainant, not to the recipient. 'If you do not say now what you may need to rely on later, etc. etc........'

 

At the end of the day the complainant has to decide how bold or timid the letter should be.

 

If you have got this far Mr.P. thank you for not getting bored.

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Uriah,

 

It looks like this adviser of yours is determined not to stop harassing you. Time to consider putting your foot down.

 

They can't move against you until the 2nd March and only then if you don't turn up for the appointment. They can't really do what they think they can then either.

 

If you intend to act then the sooner you send your letter of complaint and get it on the record the better. They will have time to receive it, consider it, and respond to it before 2nd March.

 

I would just add the following to the letter:

 

"Please acknowledge receipt of this letter, and what action you intend to take to address my complaint, within the timeframe of your complaints procedure. Failure to do so will escalate the complaint to the next level. I want you also to reconsider the latest mandation letter and hereby inform you that I shall not be taking part in any mandatory activity until such time as my current complaint is resolved and a Decision Maker decides on the legal position"

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Hi,

I've been into our local Welfare Rights office this morning just to clarify whether i could write to Ingeus and not go to the appointment they've given me for the 2nd, 'cos the doctors note doesn't run out until the 12th, but they said i still need to go.

I told the woman this morning i felt i was getting harassed and bullied just 'cos i'd turned an interview down. She said if they wanted, as unfair as it seems, they can make you go to the WP every day.

I've made another appointment with my Gp for later this week.

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But you're still signed off sick. I wouldn't go.

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I've been having a surf collecting any ammunition that maybe helpful if i do have to go back into Ingeus, and found this.

I don't suppose it's of much help. but it's interesting reading.......... How much they get paid for me being there and it they get me off benefits.

 

https://www.city.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/165194/Martyn-Rosser-seminar.pdf

 

Scroll down past ...

About Ingeus

Uk Operations

The WP, key principles

Value for money

Then we come to fees.

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Hi,

I've been into our local Welfare Rights office this morning just to clarify whether i could write to Ingeus and not go to the appointment they've given me for the 2nd, 'cos the doctors note doesn't run out until the 12th, but they said i still need to go.

I told the woman this morning i felt i was getting harassed and bullied just 'cos i'd turned an interview down. She said if they wanted, as unfair as it seems, they can make you go to the WP every day.

I've made another appointment with my Gp for later this week.

Im sorry to say you have been miss-informed


TJR JNR

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Hello again people,

Thanks very much for all the information you've given me it's been very helpful.

I've been back to the Work Programme today, not to see my advisor just to job search on their computers. I did as you advised and never took my passwords, which they weren't to happy about but put me searching other sites. I now have to go again on Thursday to see my advisor, although i've got to 'sign on' at the JobCentre only 30mins later so can't be with the WP long.

When i went for that interview they sent me to last week the guy was asking to check/copy everyones passports..... I've lost mine a couple of years ago. Now they were talking on our local radio about landlords needing to check passports before renting out a flat. The Presaenter on the radio said, it's not just landlords, if you come here for a job we have to see your passport.

If i have to renew my passport ........ what does that cost and how long will it take, and will the WP buy it for me ? :-)

 

Had this same problem myself about 6 months ago and managed to find a gov document saying that an out of date British passport was fine for I.D. purposes - doesn't help if it's lost, but the info may help someone.

 

Sadly, I can't remember where I found it - but I searched and it's on here ...

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/441957/employers_guide_to_acceptable_right_to_work_documents_v5.pdf

 

Mac :)

Edited by MacMcGann

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What's the story with your local Welfare Rights office? Are they Government, Council, volunteers? How often are they allowed out?

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I always thought Welfare Rights were a bit like CaB and volunteers, but the last time i used them was over two years ago after having an Atos medical, then going to a sort of tribunial where there was 3/4 people sitting almost like Judges. A guy from Welfare Rights came with me to speak on my behalf. Unfortunately i only got 9pts and needed 15, so needed to go to sign for Jsa.

The Welfare guy told me he was the manager and it was his paid job, i think some of the others may be volunteers. Their offices are within our Council housing off. So i presume their funded in some way by the Council.

 

http://www.getconnected.org.uk/get-help/search-results/prescot-and-whiston-community-advice-centre/

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