What rights have Ingeus got ?

[Uriah Heap]

Can i ask, is anyone able to give me some advice ? I'm currently getting JSA and having to see Ingeus. I've had a letter from then to say as from next week, instead of going in every two weeks they want to see me twice a week; i'm to keep a daily calendar to say what i've been doing to find a job, and they want me to give them my computer passwords. I've got different passwords for the Dwp Universal Jobmatch, and Monster and Reeds (????) job agencies. The JobCentre has my password for their sits and they've told me that they do regular checks but even they have never asked to see the private agencies.

 

A bit of background i had been on longterm sick for quite a number of years, but had to have a ATOS medical, only got 9pts and has to sign-on. At first i saw an advisor who never put any pressure on me 'cos i had medicals, but she told me after 12mths i'd be transferred and life may become harder. I think it was last Nov/Dec i was put on the work programme and made to sign wth Ingeus. The first day i went the young girl looked at my details then whispered so nobody could here....... "If you're entitled to start claiming Pension Credit soon i don't suppose you really want a job, do you " I just said that i couldn't answer that question. And the girl smiled and said don't worry, it will be ok.

 

Since New Year things have changed i'm being told i have to take any job they send me fore, i'm not allowed to say i can't do that, i'm not allowed to say i don't fancy that, i'm not allowed to make a mess of an interview, or i will be sanctioned I had to go to a group interview early this week, the job was 5 days of 12hr shifts, one week days the following on nights. With an hours travel at the start/end So a 14hr day. The guy taking the interview said i know not everyone is going to be able to do 12hrs, so i don't want to waste your time, you can go if you want. A few of us said Thank You and left.

I feel now this letter from Ingeus is my punishment and they're going to make life hell. They know in less than 5mths i'll be able to claim Pension Credit and they wont get paid for me.

 

Earlier in the week when all this started i was really stressed and depressed 'cos i felt they have me over a barrel. And one of the ways i hope may get me out of it is, by claiming for Esa. Last time going back perhaps a couple of years before my Atos medical i only got 9pts, so may fail again. But i was thinking...... Doesn't this assessment take a long time while the paperwork is being processed, and my Pension Credit date is the beginning of July, so only 5mths.

I've made an appointment to see my Gp, but that's not until next Friday, another week.

I'd planned to fill this Esa form that's just arrived over the weekend.

 

I'm sorry this has been such a long story but would be glad of any advice.

Thanks.

[citizenB]

I am sure you will receive quite a few responses in respect of this.

 

However, I think for sure you are NOT obliged to provide them with your passwords.

 

I will flag your thread for attention.

[citizenB]

The thread linked below is very long, but you might want to have a peek.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?309173-Ingeus&p=4856067&viewfull=1#post4856067

 

post # 6326, I think answers some of your questions.

[Nystagmite]

CitB is right. They will ask for your passwords. But when you sign up, you're told (as you are with any site, whether that's here or your bank) not to give your details to anyone. They're probably hoping you don't realise that. I've come that a few times on here recently.

 

In regards to ESA - it's meant to take only 13 weeks. But I don't think I know anyone where it's only taken 13 weeks.

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Hello Uriah, ever so 'umbly suggest you check out the following links.

On providing access to UJM please check out the thread on this link:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?457928-UJM-amp-terms-of-use

Specifically post #11

On Mandatory Activity Notification please check out the thread on this link:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?458914-The-work-programme

Specifically post #24

Again on Mandatory Activity Notification please check out the thread on this link:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?309173-Ingeus/page317

Specifically post #6332

[Mr.P]

However, I think for sure you are NOT obliged to provide them with your passwords.

 

Without looking at the terms and conditions of every site, I'll just link to the terms & conditions published for UJM: https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/Account/StandardsOfBehaviour.aspx

 

4.1 You should keep your login and password details secure and not disclose these to anyone else including a third party.

Any one else and third party in this context is anyone, be they a DWP employee or a Work Programme "adviser". If they try to apply pressure, ask them to contact the Third Party Contracts Manager at the DWP and get it authorised in writing by him/her. I'm pretty sure the TPCM will be spitting bricks at the very thought and chew the ear off any WP adviser that dares to ask.

 

As for going in twice weekly, I'd suggest giving the manager a Mandatory Reconsideration letter asking for the 'activity; to be reviewed on the grounds that you have unrestricted access to the internet from home. Also mention that CVs and template letters are all stored on your home computer where it is much easier to edit to suit each application. If these twice weekly sessions are mandatory, you must make every effort to attend until you have had a reply to the MR.

[reallymadwoman]

I wouldn't normally suggest anyone claim ESA unless they were genuinely unable to work, but in your case I think it's in your best interest to get a fit note and claim as soon as possible, I'm sure your GP will co-operate if you explain how stressed and ill attending these sessions is making you on top of other problems that you obviously have.

 

You are most unlikely to move out of the assessment phase before you're due to claim pension credit, so hopefully you won't even have to go to a WCA.

[tfp]

Do NOT give Ingeus your passwords. Leave aside the fact many including myself find them wholly incompetent, you should refer them to this page:

 

https://www.cyberstreetwise.com/passwords

 

This is a government internet safety campaign telling the public and business how to be safe online. Divulging passwords to a third party is generally held not to be a good idea.

 

If asked again, perhaps enquire what Ingeus' policy would be should a clients online safety ever be compromised due to their password falling into the wrong hands?

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Do NOT give Ingeus your passwords. Leave aside the fact many including myself find them wholly incompetent, you should refer them to this page:

 

https://www.cyberstreetwise.com/passwords

 

This is a government internet safety campaign telling the public and business how to be safe online. Divulging passwords to a third party is generally held not to be a good idea.

 

If asked again, perhaps enquire what Ingeus' policy would be should a clients online safety ever be compromised due to their password falling into the wrong hands?

Sound advice there Tfp. Pointless having a password if you are going to tell every Tom, Dick or Harry what it is. Divulging it to the likes of Ingeus, or JCP God bless 'em, is doing exactly that.

Signing any document, letter or form that waives your privacy and data protection rights is also a no-no. Signing implies that you have given consent and permission for them to demand you tell them anything they ask and their entitlement then to tell the world

[Uriah Heap]

Hello again people,

Thanks very much for all the information you've given me it's been very helpful.

I've been back to the Work Programme today, not to see my advisor just to job search on their computers. I did as you advised and never took my passwords, which they weren't to happy about but put me searching other sites. I now have to go again on Thursday to see my advisor, although i've got to 'sign on' at the JobCentre only 30mins later so can't be with the WP long.

When i went for that interview they sent me to last week the guy was asking to check/copy everyones passports..... I've lost mine a couple of years ago. Now they were talking on our local radio about landlords needing to check passports before renting out a flat. The Presaenter on the radio said, it's not just landlords, if you come here for a job we have to see your passport.

If i have to renew my passport ........ what does that cost and how long will it take, and will the WP buy it for me ?

[citizenB]

Hello again people,

Thanks very much for all the information you've given me it's been very helpful.

I've been back to the Work Programme today, not to see my adviser just to job search on their computers. I did as you advised and never took my passwords, which they weren't to happy about but put me searching other sites. I now have to go again on Thursday to see my adviser, although i've got to 'sign on' at the JobCentre only 30mins later so can't be with the WP long.

When i went for that interview they sent me to last week the guy was asking to check/copy everyones passports..... I've lost mine a couple of years ago. Now they were talking on our local radio about landlords needing to check passports before renting out a flat. The Presaenter on the radio said, it's not just landlords, if you come here for a job we have to see your passport.

If i have to renew my passport ........ what does that cost and how long will it take, and will the WP buy it for me ?

 

Interesting question re your passport - what happens if you don't have one ?

 

anyway, the information you will need is in the link below..

 

https://www.gov.uk/renew-adult-passport

 

You can renew or replace your passport at any time. It costs £72.50, or £82.25 through the Post Office’s Passport Check and Send service.

 

Time left on an existing passport is added to your new one, up to a maximum of 9 months.

How long it takes

 

It should take 3 weeks to get the passport - use a different service if you need the passport urgently.

 

It can take longer if more information is needed or your application hasn’t been filled out correctly.

 

 

I would imagine that they cannot force you to obtain a passport if you have never had one or even renew it if you have an out of date one. If this is going to be a requirement of Job Hunting or renting a flat, it might cause problems.

[Nystagmite]

It's about £72 for a passport.

[honeybee13]

I can't believe there aren't other ways to prove your ID. There was a time, and I haven't checked this in terms of nowadays, when an expired passport still worked as proof of ID.

 

HB

[Uriah Heap]

The only photo ID i had was my Travelpass, we get them up here in this part of the world at aged 60. But that wasn't acceptable.

[honeybee13]

Does the Travelpass have your photo on it?

 

Hopefully someone here will know more than I do about proving ID.

 

HB

[antone]

For the purposes of proving entitlement to work in the UK, you can use a long form birth certificate (one that shows the name of at least one of your parents) accompanied by a letter from a government agency showing your full name and National Insurance number. I guess a P45, P60 or benefit award letter from the DWP would be suitable.

[Mr.P]

I now have to go again on Thursday to see my advisor, although i've got to 'sign on' at the JobCentre only 30mins later so can't be with the WP long.

 

When i went for that interview they sent me to last week the guy was asking to check/copy everyones passports.....

 

Do NOT let the WP provider delay you when you for you Job Centre appointment. It takes priority over all else that they tell you, so make sure you walk out in plenty of time.

 

As for the passport. Many employers ask to see one nowadays as proof of identity. Whilst the WP provider may ask, you are under no obligation to show it to them. Your identity and right to claim benefits has already been checked by the DWP, so the referral letter should suffice.

 

If they want to see your (nonexistent) passport, by all means ask them to pay for it. They might agree to it, but don't hold your breath.

[Uriah Heap]

I've been back tio Ingeus this morning and to the jobcentre to sign-on.

Ingeus first i saidi can only give you 20mins i've got to sign-on, so if you want a longer chat, can you leave it until next time.

She said No, you know it's half hour appointments you've got to stay

I said with the greatest respect they're more important than you, so unless you're going to tie me to the desk, i'll see you next time.

She told me to come back after the JC and there was an intake for KFC downstairs, i had to apply for that. When i went the guy asked why i wanted to work for kfc, i told him 'cos Caroline upstairs told me to. He asked again why 'I' wanted to work there. So again i said if i don't Caroline will get me sanctioned. He said i wasn't to waste his time, and he didn't want to waste mine annd he'd rather send someone that wanted the job. He said leave Caroline (my advisor) and he would sort it. So we marched up stairs, i couldn't hear what was being said but he was obviously more senior, she was glaring at me.

Anyway had a quick chat with this guy in the corridor about other things i could do and he said he'd have a think and if i thought of anything he'd see me next time.

When i went to sign-on i told the girl there everything that had been going on and i hoped i may get onto Esa, i'd sent off a form early in the week and had a doctors appointment tomorrow so was hoping to get a note. She gave me a form to sign-off and said i was better bringing the note into them rather than posting it to the Esa incase was lost in the post.

Fingers crossed now my doctor will give me a note.

[Uriah Heap]

Hi,

When i went to my Gp she gave me a note but only for a month. I told her i only had 5mths to go before i was entitled to Pension Credit and hoped for longer than a month although she did say i could come back.

I was due to go to Ingeus on Monday to spend the day doing job searching on their computers, but never went or contacted them. My advisor phoned on Tuesday asking why i hadn't been there, i told her i was sick, she said that makes no difference you've still got to come here when you have an appointment. I told her again i was sick and didn't want to speak on the phone and she should weite to me. She wasn't happy saying missing an appointment can get me sanctioned.

She has just phoned again, my usual appointment to see her was this morning and i hadn't gone. I reminded her again i was sick and i'd given a 'note' into the JC. She said .... Oh you're wasnting to go onto Esa are you ? Well what will happen now is if you're successful in your claim you'll be transferred to an Esa advisor here at Ingeus and have to come in to see them, if your Esa claim is rejected you'll have to come back to see me.

I thought while waiting the Esa assessment i didn't have to see any of them.

These things go on and on, no peace for the wicked.

[antone]

You don't have to go on the Work Programme while you're on the assessment phase of ESA. Ingeus advisers aren't particularly knowledgeable about benefits, though.

[reallymadwoman]

Whilst waiting for an assessment you don't have to see anyone.

 

I would write to your advisor's manager saying you've made it quite clear that you're ill and you don't want to be contacted by phone but these constant calls are making you worse.

You could also speak to the jobcentre manager about Ingeus harassing you.

[Uriah Heap]

Thamks. That's relief.

I didn't think i was going to have to go in there, but you hear so many stories about how much IDS is doing to push people off benefits i didn't know what to expext. A similar thing must have cropped up before so she must know the rules.

[Lapsed Workaholic]

The "Guide to Stopping Harassment From DWP" in the following applies equally to WP Providers. You will see from this that right is on your side.

 

http://www.thesanctionedjobseeker.co.uk/guide-to-stopping-harassment-from-the-dwp/

[Nystagmite]

They're probably hoping you don't know that you don't have to attend. I didn't attend whilst I was signed off, thinking I didn't have to, despite them (wp) trying to claim otherwise. And as soon as they thought my sick note had expired, they tried calling me for an appointment the next day.

[Uriah Heap]

She never asked how long my 'sick note' was for. I was expecting her to ask but i think i may have taken her by surprise when i said i'd handed it into the JC. The week before when i saw her i'd been coughing & sneezing, full of cold. So when i told her i'd never turned up for her two appointments 'cos i was feeling sick, i think she presumed it was only that.

If she gets in touch with the JC i wonder do they say any more to her. I'd like her to keep getting in touch so that i could tell my Gp i feel i'm being harassed when i go and ask for another note.