UKPCM LTD Parking - HELP required

[Chimpata]

Hi,

 

 

A friend of mine receive a Parking charge through the Post, i have attached a copy of the ticket they have received by post. No ticket was issued on the vehicle and there is no CCTV camera or ANPR system

 

The driver said that they were inside the car and were trying to read the information on the signage and they moved after they read the sign.

 

Having looked at the ticket it stated that the ticket was issued at 18:34 but the evidence on-line shows that the ticket was at around 17:40. Can the driver fight on the grounds no ticket was issued to him and that the time is wrong...

 

Well What I can say. they have not responded at all and then suddenly we received another letter from DRP dated 10/12/2015, demanding payment for unpaid parking charge. However this letter was received very late.

 

 

I contacted UKPMC to find why they have issued this letter we we have not received a response to our appeal, they stated that they have issued response. I have informed no response was received. they told me to contact the DRP.

 

I have requested copy of the letter and what grounds it was rejected, they refused to give me this info,.

 

I also contacted the DRP, they also said they cannot issue the copy of the letter and they have refused to give me the letter and that they insist that I was parked in Loading Bay.

 

This week I received a letter before referral for legal action and I bit concern regarding this issue. Any advise ion this matter would be much appreciated.

PCM UK.pdf

[dx100uk]

loading bay in a private carpark..what next.

 

 

they do try every trick

to make themselves look official

 

 

its a speculative invoice.

[Chimpata]

is not a private car park . the loading bay is actual on the main road which is owned by the local authority , only that part is private land , any JOE BLOG will think it belongs to the Council

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

Parking Control Management (UK) are members of the flawed IPC and not the BPA so this is nothing unusual.

 

Get the evidence of the time discrepancies and print it out as well as a screenshot of the actual page.

 

It is pointless appealing now as DRP are now involved and they won't find in your favour anyway.

 

Complaining to PCM is an option as they didn't offer the keeper the option of appealing and require proof of postage and delivery (cheeky I know as they can't prove delivery). Once they reject your complaint you can then complain further to the IPC who will also reject any complaint.

 

By doing this, you would have the upper hand if they did try it on through the courts. I doubt they would win anyway as members of the IPC don't follow PoFA 2012 so they can't rely on it in court.

[armadillo71]

My friend... The driver. .. We... I....

 

I think you should edit your first post to be consistent with the fact that you, if you are the RK, is not the driver...

[Chimpata]

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

Parking Control Management (UK) are members of the flawed IPC and not the BPA so this is nothing unusual.

 

Get the evidence of the time discrepancies and print it out as well as a screenshot of the actual page.

 

It is pointless appealing now as DRP are now involved and they won't find in your favour anyway.

 

Complaining to PCM is an option as they didn't offer the keeper the option of appealing and require proof of postage and delivery (cheeky I know as they can't prove delivery). Once they reject your complaint you can then complain further to the IPC who will also reject any complaint.

 

By doing this, you would have the upper hand if they did try it on through the courts. I doubt they would win anyway as members of the IPC don't follow PoFA 2012 so they can't rely on it in court.

 

 

Many thanks for your assistance, but in this case do I wait for them or make complaint, to PCM.

 

I have downloaded the photos from their website and also i have the proofsas well showing the time on the photos does not match with the time on their parking ticket

[silverfox1961]

Others will say to ignore them.

 

 

I am a little more pro active.

 

 

In my opinion you could complain now.

 

 

By not receiving any post other than the DRP rubbish,

you (he) have had no opportunity to appeal the charge.

 

If possible, go back to the site and see if there are any ANPR cameras covering the site.

 

 

If not, how could they issue a ticket?

 

 

There was someone in the car at all times so a ticket would have been seen to have been placed.

 

Also, photograph where the car was parked and any signs in the area.

[Chimpata]

Others will say to ignore them. I am a little more pro active. In my opinion you could complain now. By not receiving any post other than the DRP rubbish, you (he) have had no opportunity to appeal the charge.

If possible, go back to the site and see if there are any ANPR cameras covering the site. If not, how could they issue a ticket? There was someone in the car at all times so a ticket would have been seen to have been placed.

 

Also, photograph where the car was parked and any signs in the area.

 

Many thanks again for the useful information. The issue there are NO ANPR cameras at the location. and ticket was palced in the vehicle. The only thing was the letter.

 

By any chance do you have any template that i can use please.

This is what I have written to them before.

 

 

Without prejudice, except as to costs

 

Dear UKPCM,

 

Ref: XXXXXX(ref number)

 

On 13/10/2015 I was the registered keeper of a Ford Galaxy registration number xxxx (vrm).

 

I am appealing as keeper. Your notice to keeper is not compliant with POFA 2012 and therefore as keeper I am not liable. The notice does not specify the period of parking as required by regulation 9.2.a. of schedule 4.

 

The driver parked, read the notice and decided not to accept the terms and conditions. They left within a reasonable grace period. Your photographic evidence spans the period 17:40:27 to 17:41:27, or a period of one minute. This is not enough time to read the signage. You have no evidence the vehicle therefore contravened any terms and conditions.

 

The NTK states the parking event took place at 18:34. However, this is over one hour after the photographs were taken and you have provided no evidence to support your claim the vehicle was present at 18:34.

 

You claim that the signage is clear and concise. However your photographs prove this is not the case. The signage is tiny, with small writing and high up. The writing cannot even be read in the photograph you filed as evidence. The signs cannot be read from the vehicle and it is not even obvious they are related to parking.

 

I note that your company featured on watchdog where an undercover reporter found out you regularly file false evidence in appeals.

 

In Addition I should be grateful if you would first answer all the questions and deal with all the issues I have set out below. Once you have done so, I will be able to make an informed decision on how I deal with the matter.

 

I should be grateful for specific answers to all questions raised. In this respect I remind you of the obligations set out in the current Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.

 

I dispute your claim for the reasons set out below. Please note that although I dispute the whole basis of the parking charge, my main concern is its disproportionate and punitive level.

 

1. Your parking charge amount claim.

 

Please explain on which of the following grounds your claim is based:

 

(i) Damages for trespass

(ii) Damages for breach of contract

(iii) A contractual sum

2. Your loss.

 

If it is your case that that a trespass was committed or that a contract was breached such that your claim is one for damages; please give me a full breakdown of the actual losses which evidences that this parking charge is a true reflection of the damages caused solely by the alleged parking contravention.

 

 

3. Your status – the creditor.

 

Your Parking Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper simply mentions Parking Control Management UK Ltd (PCM). Please tell me who is the actual creditor making this £100.00 parking charge demand. I need to know exactly who is making the claim and in what capacity.

 

4. Ownership of premises.

 

Please tell me who owns the Heath Parade NW9 or the part of the parking bay as I wish to send them a copy of this letter.

 

5. Contractual Authority

 

Please provide me with a copy of the contract between your company and the landowner/landholder that provides the necessary contractual written authority for the issue and enforcement of your Parking Charge Notice - Notice to Keeper.

 

6. Signage.

 

If it is your case that a contract has been breached or that a contractual sum is now due, please send me photographs of the signs that you display and upon which you seek to evidence that a lawful and legally enforceable contract was been entered into. Please ensure that the photographs show the terms and conditions in a clear and legible manner. Please provide me with a diagram showing the locations and layout of those signs at the car park. Also provide evidence that the wording is in plain and intelligible language and in sufficiently large print as to be legible to a driver at the car park’s entry point.

 

7. Summary

 

I look forward to receiving your acknowledgement within 14 days and as there are no ‘exceptional circumstances’ your comprehensive reply within 35 days. I will then be able to make an informed decision as to how I deal with your Parking Charge Notice – Notice to Keeper.

 

If you reject this challenge or fail to address the issues that have been raised then, please ensure that you enclose all the required information (including the necessary ‘The Independent Appeal Service code’) so that I may immediately refer the matter for their decision.

 

If you fail to follow any of the procedures outlined in the Independent Parking Committee (IPC) Code of Practice or your legal requirements under the Protection of Freedoms Act, or the requirements of the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct then I will make a formal complaint to the DVLA Data Sharing Policy Group, D16.

 

Please Note: Unless you have specifically requested it and received my express permission, you do not have my authority to disclose or refer this letter or any other communication from me to any other person or organisation.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

XXXXXX

 

Please note that a copy of this complaint has been sent to the following organisations:

 

1) The Independent Parking Committee

2) Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency

3) Matthew Offord MP

4) The Independent Appeals Service

[silverfox1961]

I would get rid of the 'without prejudice' bit. This is not relevant and get rid of this bit as it applies to the other statement.

Please Note: Unless you have specifically requested it and received my express permission, you do not have my authority to disclose or refer this letter or any other communication from me to any other person or organisation.

 

If you want to send that as is, head it with "Formal Complaint and Appeal Out of Time"

 

A this is mainly the complaint you should end it with what you expect as in the ticket cancelled or full reasons why this is unable to be complied with. Try and keep it to one side of A4 paper as the poor dears will get tired eyes having to read a second page. You could also mention that the driver was inside the vehicle whilst reading the signs and no ticket was placed on the vehicle.

[ericsbrother]

so let us be clear about the timeline, you got a demand through the post.

 

 

The parking co did not respond to your appeal and now DRP are writing to you.

 

What was the date of the incident and what date did you receive the NTK through the post?

 

 

Chances are the demand is not compliant with the PoFA so no cause to claim from you anyway.

 

Let us now consider DRP, involvement.

 

 

They are rentamouths and have nothing to say that needs to be heard, ignore them completely.

 

Back to the event,

there has been no breach of any conditions there for several reasons,

you have mentioned one and that is grace period to read signage.

 

 

Another is the decision in Dawood v Camden should the land be private

it is accessible by the public so this decision applies.

The signage is probably deficient anyway.

 

 

Most of the points you raise are equally valid but are wasted on the bunch of thickos

that run these organisations so save them for the future f necessary.

 

 

Once it has gone to DRP then that is usually the last stop on the line,

3 threatograms and then silence.

 

As for your letter to the parking co,

bin it and

 

 

write a simple on that just says,

there is no keeper liability because the protocols of the PoFA have not been adhered to

so desist from any further contact or a complaint of harassment

as both a criminal offence and a civil tort will be made.

 

Your letter raises a raft of points that will allow them to continue to keep sending demands to you

so make it clear that this si the end of the matter

[Chimpata]

I would get rid of the 'without prejudice' bit. This is not relevant and get rid of this bit as it applies to the other statement.

 

 

If you want to send that as is, head it with "Formal Complaint and Appeal Out of Time"

 

A this is mainly the complaint you should end it with what you expect as in the ticket cancelled or full reasons why this is unable to be complied with. Try and keep it to one side of A4 paper as the poor dears will get tired eyes having to read a second page. You could also mention that the driver was inside the vehicle whilst reading the signs and no ticket was placed on the vehicle.

 

That was a copy of the appeal sent n OCTOBER when we received their parking charge.

[Chimpata]

so let us be clear about the timeline, you got a demand through the post. The parking co did not respond to your appeal and now DRP are writing to you.

What was the date of the incident and what date did you receive the NTK through the post? Chances are the demand is not compliant with the PoFA so no cause to claim from you anyway.

Let us now consider DRP, involvement. They are rentamouths and have nothing to say that needs to be heard, ignore them completely.

Back to the event, there has been no breach of any conditions there for several reasons, you have mentioned one and that is grace period to read signage. Another is the decisionin Dawood v Camden should the land be private it is accessible by the public so this decision applies. The signage is probably deficient anyway. Most of the points you raise are equally valid but are wasted on the bunch of thickos that run these organisations so save them for the future f necessary. Once it has gone to DRP then that is usually the last stop on the line, 3 threatograms and then silence.

As for your letter to the parking co, bin it and write a simple on that just says, there is no keeper liability because the protocols of the PoFA have not been adhered to so desist from any further contact or a complaint of harassment as both a criminal offence and a civil tort will be made.

Your letter raises a raft of points that will allow them to continue to keep sending demands to you so make it clear that this si the end of the matter

 

Many thanks for your assistance in this matter

 

At the moment the actual parking charge is at home and the appeal to the private company was made on the 29/10/2015. I believe either contravention date was on the 13/10/2015.

 

The issue is that the company states that they have sent a response. (WHICH I HAVE NOT RECEIVED), However over the conversation I requested a copy of the rejection letter and the reason why it was rejected, they have advise they cannot provide m this and to contact the DPR.

 

Going back to DPR they putting the blame to me as why i have not chased them UP

[/b]

[ericsbrother]

if your dates are right they were timed out for keeper liability anyway. As they are IPC members they dont chase the keeper because they believe what the IPC tell them and that they are above the law as far as that goes. Funny that on every occasion it has gone to court the judges dont agree with them!

 

As said DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME WRITING TO DEBT RECOVERY PLUS, thet have no interest whatsoever in may matter at all. It will be just the waste of a stamp.

UKPCM arent likely to want to take the matter further but because you have taken the bait of the threatagram they have you down as someone who will pay up if they tell big enough lies.

Ignore DRP and ignore anything from UKPCM that is not a lba.

You may get a letter from Gladstones solicitors asking you to pay but they are also acting as a dca and are only furhtering their own interests as they own the IPC and IAS and that is why we say dont bother appealing to them as they are by its definition, a kangaroo court.

Stick to the simple foff letter suggested and you wont go wrong

[Chimpata]

if your dates are right they were timed out for keeper liability anyway. As they are IPC members they dont chase the keeper because they believe what the IPC tell them and that they are above the law as far as that goes. Funny that on every occasion it has gone to court the judges dont agree with them!

 

As said DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME WRITING TO DEBT RECOVERY PLUS, thet have no interest whatsoever in may matter at all. It will be just the waste of a stamp.

UKPCM arent likely to want to take the matter further but because you have taken the bait of the threatagram they have you down as someone who will pay up if they tell big enough lies.

Ignore DRP and ignore anything from UKPCM that is not a lba.

You may get a letter from Gladstones solicitors asking you to pay but they are also acting as a dca and are only furhtering their own interests as they own the IPC and IAS and that is why we say dont bother appealing to them as they are by its definition, a kangaroo court.

Stick to the simple foff letter suggested and you wont go wrong

 

Thanks for your assistance

 

I had a look at the initial ticket that was posted .

 

 

They have indicated that the PCn was issued on the 13/10/2015 (Although no ticket was placed in the vehicle).

date of posting was 20/10/2015

and date of this notice given 22/10/2015

 

I will try to upload the initial letter first received.

[Chimpata]

I have attached the actual photos and the ticket it self

 

 

As you can see this is on the main road which is owned by the local authority , however it seems that loading bay is on a private land.

 

In this area there is a lot of regeneration going on with a new Sainsbury local opened. The loading bays is just outside the sainsbury

[armadillo71]

The signage states that the bay is for authorised vehicles only and no parking for any other vehicle at any time.

You cannot enter into a contract for something that you are not allowed to do.

 

This means that the driver was trespassing and only the landowner can claim damages for that...

[silverfox1961]

In my opinion the sign is not compliant anyway. The charge is in the small print, not highlighted as a main term.

 

If this went to court, I would love to be there to see the judge rip them a new one

 

Edit.

Can you convert them to pdf's then we can zoom in more to be able to read them better and help my ageing eyes

[ericsbrother]

there is so much wrong with that sign

 

 

it cannot be considered a contract so you havent breached one and therefore dont owe any money.

 

They dont need to put a ticket on the vehicle but by using the provisions of para 9 of the POFA

they would have a job mitigating their actions if they are acting on behalf of the landowner,

but they arent,

 

 

they are acting in their own interests so they will have to prove the right to do this at some point.

 

 

Again, the law is on your side in this regard.

 

 

The case law of Dawood v Camden scuttles a claim from anyone in this place