Self Employment Form

[tezza1234]

Hi all, i am self employed and am entitled to some housing benefit, once or twice a year i have to fill out a form for the council which is basically a tax return for the council, they call it a self employment earnings form, they do this to make sure i am entitled or not as the case may be. So, filling in the form we get to the vehicle and mileage section and i write down a mileage based on 45p per mile, as HMRC allow on a tax return.

 

I get a phone call from someone at local council to say they can't accept the 45p per mile declaration and they need an actual amount that was spent. Is this right. This would now mean my tax return info and the self employment form info for the local council have different amounts and info as HMRC allow you to claim 45p per mile (for the first 10k miles) yet the council don't allow that as part of there calculations in working out housing benefit.

 

Can anyone advise.

 

Thanks as always

[slick132]

Hi Tezza,

 

HMRC may accept a flat rate claim for the first 10,000 miles @45p per mile, and then 25p over 10K miles. But this is just an alternative means of claiming tax relief for motoring costs.

 

IMHO, the council have the right to ask what you actually spent on business mileage. If you can supply the actual figures, this may avoid delays in the council assessing your HB entitlement.

 

[tezza1234]

Hi Tezza,

 

HMRC may accept a flat rate claim for the first 10,000 miles @45p per mile, and then 25p over 10K miles. But this is just an alternative means of claiming tax relief for motoring costs.

 

IMHO, the council have the right to ask what you actually spent on business mileage. If you can supply the actual figures, this may avoid delays in the council assessing your HB entitlement.

 

 

Hi. ok fair enough, i did supply the information, it wasn't that hard in the sense of mileage, cars average mpg and average fuel price for the year in question = a rough total actual spent, which was obviously a fair bit less than the 45p mile method.

[ericsbrother]

They are trying to increase your net earnings by fiddling the figures. You can add servicing, insurance, MOT and any other cost that is applicable as a proportion for your overall running costs but one of the problems in giving any details is they will question any and all of it. You have now screwed yourself by not including all of these other costs. It would have been better to say that if they dont accept the figure of 45p/mile then you will appeal any adverse decision to the Tribunal, where such figures are accepted without murmur and they will have to justify their assumptions.

[tezza1234]

They are trying to increase your net earnings by fiddling the figures. You can add servicing, insurance, MOT and any other cost that is applicable as a proportion for your overall running costs but one of the problems in giving any details is they will question any and all of it. You have now screwed yourself by not including all of these other costs. It would have been better to say that if they dont accept the figure of 45p/mile then you will appeal any adverse decision to the Tribunal, where such figures are accepted without murmur and they will have to justify their assumptions.

 

I wouldn't have fancied the tribunal appeal process, im one for an easy life, i have worked it out on the revised information supplied and it shouldn't matter, its a bit like saying zones 1-5 are safe, and from 6 onward i will be penalized, my first number was 1, was told this is no good so to pick another number, so i picked 3, i am still in the safe zone so should not affect claim, i think it was just a jobsworth, but like you say, going forward for the next one in the future, i know exactly what to put and where to full fill there requirements

[tezza1234]

Slight update to this, so the council dallied a bit, heard nothing, then chased up to find out they put my claim number in wrong hence the delay, anyway, have now just received the update and unsure what to do. Now, bare in mind I know I am entitle to full HB and CTC the way the council has 'fiddled' the info given for there own purposes they are trying to say that next year I will have to contribute an extra £350 odd, Ok so I know £350 is not a lot throughout the year in the grand scheme of things and I can afford to cover this BUT its the principle that matters, why should I pay this £350 just because some busy body can't do there job properly. If this had been anyone else id probably ignore it and not even mention it here but this Council have always been an awkward thorn in my side who are always looking at ways to screw you. Can you believe they have decided I did not pay enough council tax last year and have just billed me for £3.50 odd, really, I have every mind to go in and pay it in pennies, in fact, I might.

 

 

 

 

So, what are my next steps, to pay the £350 throughout this year, learn from my mistake and next year claim anything and everything available (that I didn't do this year) or appeal, tribunal etc... which I don't really want to do, as knowing the council they would probably suspend any payments until the outcome of the appeal, and I can't afford to cover full rent and council tax while the appeal is in progress.

 

 

Also, is this likely to be a mistake, but according to there paperwork they are saying the HA rent is going down £3 odd in April 2016, is this likely, ive heard of a freeze, and usually a increase by £5-£15 a year but ive never heard of a decrease, note this would not just be for me but a general decrease.

[slick132]

Hi Tezza,

 

As a self employed person, I assume you keep records of all your income and outgoings so it should be simple to give a factual account of your net income, or profit.

 

To calculate your motoring costs, you add up everything that you have actually paid out such as fuel, oil, parts, mechanic or garage servicing costs, road tax, insurance, MOT.

 

These are the figures that you would use to work out your outgoings, to be set against your S/E income for tax purposes and they can be used for HB and CT calc'ns.

 

[tezza1234]

Hi Tezza,

 

As a self employed person, I assume you keep records of all your income and outgoings so it should be simple to give a factual account of your net income, or profit.

 

To calculate your motoring costs, you add up everything that you have actually paid out such as fuel, oil, parts, mechanic or garage servicing costs, road tax, insurance, MOT.

 

These are the figures that you would use to work out your outgoings, to be set against your S/E income for tax purposes and they can be used for HB and CT calc'ns.

 

 

 

Hiya, yes I do keep records well of most things for HMRC accounting purposes, but not so much for the council purposes, and what you can claim from both is different, like mileage is 45p per mile on tax return (for first 10,000 miles) but council want actual real costs which will be a fair bit less, where I ballsed up on the council one was I didn't put anything for servicing costs or % of home used for business etc... why, because I thought I had enough play room so didn't need to, is it to late to change it now or just wait until next year and do it properly and not make the same mistake again, I get it is my own fault to a point, but I guess I just take my HMRC tax return more seriously than the council self employed form.

[Leakie]

Hi Tezza 1234

 

I am just about to go through the same thing,

Apart from I have not been given any forms to fill in

 

I use my car for work and personal use.

I had intended to go down the same route as you 45p per mile

I am not sure how I could do any different in my case.

 

one thing they did say to me on my out goings the will not accept receipts for any tools of the trade,

which I find quite odd

 

leakie

[tezza1234]

Hi Tezza 1234

 

I am just about to go through the same thing,

Apart from I have not been given any forms to fill in

 

I use my car for work and personal use.

I had intended to go down the same route as you 45p per mile

I am not sure how I could do any different in my case.

 

one thing they did say to me on my out goings the will not accept receipts for any tools of the trade,

which I find quite odd

 

leakie

 

 

 

The thing with it all is I was actually really honest, maybe to honest, and I didn't even claim for everything I could have and realize now I should have, the have used the info I have given, and twisted it to suit themselves and award me less, now I deal all the time with DWP, HMRC, HA and never any problems but when it comes to my LC it is always the same, problem after problem and you can never phone up and speak to anyone, they all hide behind a computer. Here is the level of there intelligence, My business name in part is also the area I cover, and they phoned me to ask what area I cover, I mean really, are they really that thick. I think I shall have to swallow the £350 this year and not make the same mistake again next year.

[ericsbrother]

the council is entitled to make assumptions about your income and then let you prove otherwise. they may have assumed that your income will increase in the coming financial year and therfore have reduced your expected benefits accordingly. Keep decent records of everything and add in a portuion of heat a light bills to reduce net income if you do any work from home. I would not, however say that yu have a room you use as an office or they may and try charging you business rates on that room.

[tezza1234]

the council is entitled to make assumptions about your income and then let you prove otherwise. they may have assumed that your income will increase in the coming financial year and therfore have reduced your expected benefits accordingly. Keep decent records of everything and add in a portuion of heat a light bills to reduce net income if you do any work from home. I would not, however say that yu have a room you use as an office or they may and try charging you business rates on that room.

 

So the council is entitled to make assumptions on something that has not happened yet and something I can't disprove until it has happened, do you realize how daft that sounds, so the council can 'assume' I am going to earn enough to not be entitled to any help, so I would have to get in to 12 months of rent arrears to claim it back and disprove them, I don't know many LL what would allow that.

[Leakie]

Hi Tezza 1234

 

I spoke to my council regarding expenses for being self employed,

 

I use my car for work and personal use,

I told them that I had not kept the fuel receipts, as I could not use this for tax purposes and was keeping an account

of mileage used for work and would not be claiming for maintenance and insurance,

 

In my case this would have worked in there favour,

So I have been told just to split everything down the middle.

 

So it seems this is the way it works.

 

but at the end of the year if you have a higher income then this will be clawed back.

 

Leakie

[tezza1234]

Hi Tezza 1234

 

I spoke to my council regarding expenses for being self employed,

 

I use my car for work and personal use,

I told them that I had not kept the fuel receipts, as I could not use this for tax purposes and was keeping an account

of mileage used for work and would not be claiming for maintenance and insurance,

 

In my case this would have worked in there favour,

So I have been told just to split everything down the middle.

 

So it seems this is the way it works.

 

but at the end of the year if you have a higher income then this will be clawed back.

 

Leakie

 

 

 

Heya, I guess every council works differently to a point, Why will you not be claiming maintenance or insurance if you are using your car for business use, id be ****ed if the car broke on a business job and didn't claim it back somewhere along the line.

[Leakie]

Hi Tezza

 

For Tax reasons I use the 45p per mile method, as the car is used for private as well as work.

if the car had been used for work only then I would be the same as you, claim for everything.

The mileage I will be doing for work I will be better off where the council is concerned.

 

Leakie

[Leakie]

Hi Tezza again just a quick question,

if you are showing the council invoices, sent to clients, do you hide the clients name and address,

Just wondered in case it breached Data protection?

 

Leakie

[martin2006]

If you have to show them genuine invoices then no, otherwise you coukd simply write out blank invoices for anything.

[tezza1234]

Hi Tezza

 

For Tax reasons I use the 45p per mile method, as the car is used for private as well as work.

if the car had been used for work only then I would be the same as you, claim for everything.

The mileage I will be doing for work I will be better off where the council is concerned.

 

Leakie

 

 

I don't use the vehicle for work only, I do a split, and told them this, I claim a % of the tax, insurance etc... for business and the rest is disregarded as personal, a large proportion of my work is travel so keeping mileage records is quite easy, as for invoices, I can send them, but generally just input the figures.