N244 - Faulty Car

[jackbd]

Hi,

 

I'm currently in court with a dealer due to a fault car being sold to me. We've both been told by the court that we need to fork out £750 between us to gather expert evidence to determine if the car was faulty before 6 months of purchase or after. We were told by the court that if we can't agree on an expert to look at the car then the court would chose for us. After talking to somebody at the court yesterday i've now been told that I need to fill out an N244 form for the court to choose for me and this will cost £155 to do so.

Is this correct or can the court just pick one for me? I've already paid a lot of money in court fees and don't have the funds to pay out that much + half the £750 as well.

 

Thanks for any help

[fkofilee]

Good Morning JackBD and Welcome to CAG

 

I have removed your DUP Thread and moved the original here for you. I will ask someone to advise.

[fkofilee]

Hi Jack...

 

As a N244 is a variation form I believe this means the court will have made an order for the above to be done.

 

Would you please be able to post up said order minus all personal info so we can advise?

 

Plus can we have some ideas on the fault and whats happened to date please?

[AndyOrch]

Hi did you opt for expert evidence in your DQ (unless this is small claims track) ?

 

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...art35#IDAJH0HC

 

CPR 35.5

 

(1) Expert evidence is to be given in a written report unless the court directs otherwise.

(2) If a claim is on the small claimsicon track or the fast track, the court will not direct an expert to attend a hearing unless it is necessary to do so in the interests of justice.

 

CPR 35.7

 

(1) Where two or more parties wish to submit expert evidence on a particular issue, the court may direct that the evidence on that issue is to be given by a single joint expert.

(2) Where the parties who wish to submit the evidence (‘the relevant parties’) cannot agree who should be the single joint expert, the court may –

(a) select the expert from a list prepared or identified by the relevant parties; or

(b) direct that the expert be selected in such other manner as the court may direct.

 

 

CPR 35.8

 

(1) Where the court gives a direction under rule 35.7 for a single joint expert to be used, any relevant party may give instructions to the expert.

(2) When a party gives instructions to the expert that party must, at the same time, send a copy to the other relevant parties.

(3) The court may give directions about –

(a) the payment of the expert’s fees and expenses; and

(b) any inspection, examination or experiments which the expert wishes to carry out.

(4) The court may, before an expert is instructed –

(a) limit the amount that can be paid by way of fees and expenses to the expert; and

(b) direct that some or all of the relevant parties pay that amount into court.

(5) Unless the court otherwise directs, the relevant parties are jointly and severally liable(GL) for the payment of the expert’s fees and expenses.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[jackbd]

Hi Jack...

 

As a N244 is a variation form I believe this means the court will have made an order for the above to be done.

 

Would you please be able to post up said order minus all personal info so we can advise?

 

Plus can we have some ideas on the fault and whats happened to date please?

 

The court order states 'A single expert is to be instructed jointly by the parties on the engineering issues. If the parties cannot agree on the expert to be instructed by (date), either party may apply to the court.'

'The fees of the expert shall be paid by the parties equally and be limited to £750.'

 

In a nutshell what has happened is I went to look at a car last year and noticed a fuel smell coming from the engine bay, I agreed to place a deposit under the condition that the fuel smell would be checked out and nothing was wrong. A few days later I bought the car as the dealer assured me nothing was wrong. A few weeks after this it became apparent that there were problems with starting and the fuel smell had worsened. The dealer offered to have another look so I took it back, after some heated phone calls I eventually got the car back 10 days later in the same, if not worse condition than before. A few weeks later driving home from work the car lost all power, took it to VW and they said there's no compression in 2 of the pistons and there possible engine damage but can't diagnose without further investigation.

The judge has said we need a mechanical engineer to look at the car and determine if the faults were there within 6 months of purchase(which they were!) or after 6 months. As we can't agree I would like the court to pick an engineer so I am wondering how to do this? I've rang the court and the lady said to use an N244 form which costs £155 but the judge said nothing of this. All he said was that they could pick an engineer from a list?

 

 

Hi did you opt for expert evidence in your DQ (unless this is small claims track) ?

 

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...art35#IDAJH0HC

 

CPR 35.5

 

(1) Expert evidence is to be given in a written report unless the court directs otherwise.

(2) If a claim is on the small claimsicon track or the fast track, the court will not direct an expert to attend a hearing unless it is necessary to do so in the interests of justice.

 

CPR 35.7

 

(1) Where two or more parties wish to submit expert evidence on a particular issue, the court may direct that the evidence on that issue is to be given by a single joint expert.

(2) Where the parties who wish to submit the evidence (‘the relevant parties’) cannot agree who should be the single joint expert, the court may –

(a) select the expert from a list prepared or identified by the relevant parties; or

(b) direct that the expert be selected in such other manner as the court may direct.

 

 

CPR 35.8

 

(1) Where the court gives a direction under rule 35.7 for a single joint expert to be used, any relevant party may give instructions to the expert.

(2) When a party gives instructions to the expert that party must, at the same time, send a copy to the other relevant parties.

(3) The court may give directions about –

(a) the payment of the expert’s fees and expenses; and

(b) any inspection, examination or experiments which the expert wishes to carry out.

(4) The court may, before an expert is instructed –

(a) limit the amount that can be paid by way of fees and expenses to the expert; and

(b) direct that some or all of the relevant parties pay that amount into court.

(5) Unless the court otherwise directs, the relevant parties are jointly and severally liable(GL) for the payment of the expert’s fees and expenses.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy, yes this is small claims track and I opted for a expert in my application.

 

Regards

Jack

[Ganymede]

The court order states 'A single expert is to be instructed jointly by the parties on the engineering issues. If the parties cannot agree on the expert to be instructed by (date), either party may apply to the court.'

'The fees of the expert shall be paid by the parties equally and be limited to £750.'

 

In a nutshell what has happened is I went to look at a car last year and noticed a fuel smell coming from the engine bay, I agreed to place a deposit under the condition that the fuel smell would be checked out and nothing was wrong. A few days later I bought the car as the dealer assured me nothing was wrong. A few weeks after this it became apparent that there were problems with starting and the fuel smell had worsened. The dealer offered to have another look so I took it back, after some heated phone calls I eventually got the car back 10 days later in the same, if not worse condition than before. A few weeks later driving home from work the car lost all power, took it to VW and they said there's no compression in 2 of the pistons and there possible engine damage but can't diagnose without further investigation.

The judge has said we need a mechanical engineer to look at the car and determine if the faults were there within 6 months of purchase(which they were!) or after 6 months. As we can't agree I would like the court to pick an engineer so I am wondering how to do this? I've rang the court and the lady said to use an N244 form which costs £155 but the judge said nothing of this. All he said was that they could pick an engineer from a list?

 

 

 

 

Thanks Andy, yes this is small claims track and I opted for a expert in my application.

 

Regards

Jack

 

That Order does not mean that the Court will choose a mechanic expert for you, that's not how it works.

 

Why have you been unable to agree an expert with the other side?

 

Unfortunately you are going to have to pay half of the expert's fee with the other side, but you could probably find one for cheaper than £750.

[jackbd]

That Order does not mean that the Court will choose a mechanic expert for you, that's not how it works.

 

Why have you been unable to agree an expert with the other side?

 

Unfortunately you are going to have to pay half of the expert's fee with the other side, but you could probably find one for cheaper than £750.

 

The defendant wants me to use his garage to diagnose the problems and for obvious reasons we don't want him to. I understand we have to pay half the £750 but I need to know if I need to pay the extra £155 because we can't agree on an expert. We've already gone past the deadline so I need this sorting as soon as possible. What is the best way apply to the court for this engineer? I've sent a letter requesting but they said that's not enough.

 

Regards

Jack

[AndyOrch]

Surely the court don't expect both parties to submit an application and fee to designate the expert...and if you have to it shouldn't require a hearing as you are only notifying so the fee will only be £50.

 

Andy

[Ganymede]

The defendant wants me to use his garage to diagnose the problems and for obvious reasons we don't want him to. I understand we have to pay half the £750 but I need to know if I need to pay the extra £155 because we can't agree on an expert. We've already gone past the deadline so I need this sorting as soon as possible. What is the best way apply to the court for this engineer? I've sent a letter requesting but they said that's not enough.

 

Regards

Jack

 

You are correct not to agree to that.

 

The expert should be totally independent to either party and address their report to the Court and be familiar with CPR 35.

 

You need to Google expert vehicle mechanic engineers. There are plenty.

 

As you've missed the deadline now you will need to apply to Court for new Directions and in the meantime have an expert ready to go.