chandlers non payment of council tax and notice of enforcement from bailiff

[grannyw]

My step daughter has received a Notice of Enforcement from Chandlers, Bromley. This is for non payment of council tax when her and her husband were together in 2014. She has not had any letter from her Council regarding this non-payment (though, on phoning the Council they said they sent them). She is now a single non-working mother and the claimed debt is now in the £1k mark. The letter was delivered at 8.15 this morning. As she has a young baby she was up at 7 a.m. The bailiff did not knock at the door. She has phoned the council who refuse to accept payment as they say it's in the hands of chandlers.

 

 

Any advice would be most welcome.

 

 

thank you

[grannyw]

sorry - forgot to mention that he's also left two controlled goods agreements.... I did search for the bayliff's name online to see if he was certified but I can't find that he is.

[Bailiff Advice]

If he left two Controlled Goods Agreements he should have also listed goods on them. Can you find out what items have been listed and post back.

 

I am assuming from this that your daughter has two Liability Orders. If so, what is the amount of debt on each Controlled Goods Agreement?

 

Also, what fees have been charged?

[grannyw]

Thanks for the reply.

 

 

There are 3 pieces of paper (forgive me - she doesn't live near me).. The first says it's an Enforcement Notice (attendance). This says that she has already been served with a compliance notice and enforcement notice (she hasn't). The second is a controlled goods agreement, the debt is for 200.17 and the compliance stage fee is 75 and the third is another controlled goods agreement - this time the debt is for 549, the compliance stage fee is 75 and the enforcement fee s 235. No good are listed on any of the letters. She hasn't met him face to face and therefore hasn't let him in.

 

 

Please let me know if you need anything else.

[brassnecked]

Has she a car parked outside, or garden furniture?

[grannyw]

no, she doesn't drive, lives in rented accommodation with, maybe, a couple of plastic chairs in the garden.

[brassnecked]

no, she doesn't drive, lives in rented accommodation with, maybe, a couple of plastic chairs in the garden.

As BA what have they listed as being Taken into Control? they might have listed a neighbours car so follow advice from BA you are in safe hands with her.

[grannyw]

thank you... I'm not sure what you mean as 'taken into control'. No goods are listed at all on any of the paperwork as far as I'm aware (though I will ask)..

[brassnecked]

thank you... I'm not sure what you mean as 'taken into control'. No goods are listed at all on any of the paperwork as far as I'm aware (though I will ask)..

If nothing listed then they don't have valid Controlled Goods Agreements, so cannot claim to have had Peaceful entry.

[grannyw]

ahh. I see, when I think I do. But they haven't entered the property (i.e. the bungalow) itself, only entered to not knock at the door and leave said paperwork.

 

 

Again, am obviously being dumb here but it doesn't seem that they've entered anything...

 

 

thanks

[brassnecked]

ahh. I see, when I think I do. But they haven't entered the property (i.e. the bungalow) itself, only entered to not knock at the door and leave said paperwork.

 

 

Again, am obviously being dumb here but it doesn't seem that they've entered anything...

 

 

thanks

OK so they have called and added fees to the original debt, what amount are they asking for on each LO?

[Bailiff Advice]

thank you... I'm not sure what you mean as 'taken into control'. No goods are listed at all on any of the paperwork as far as I'm aware (though I will ask)..

 

The try to explain it simply, if a person cannot pay the debt, the bailiff may 'take control of goods' belonging to the debtor. The phrase comes from the regulations; The Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013.

 

If your daughter had allowed the agent into her home, the enforcement agent would have looked around the property and selected items that he could 'take control of' in order to sell to repay the debt. Instead of taking the goods away at the same time, the enforcement agent would normally list each item on a Controlled Goods Agreement and agree a payment arrangement.

 

A Controlled Goods Agreement is not necessary for a payment arrangement to be set up and in most circumstances, is not recommended.

 

In your daughters case, the documents left are not Controlled Goods Agreements and should not have been left. The fees charged appear to be correct (£75 Compliance fee for each account and one enforcement fee of £235). If the enforcement agents returns, it is not advised that she should allow the agent into the property.

 

What she can now do is to contact the enforcement company to try to set up a payment arrangement.

[grannyw]

thanks for this.

 

 

On a side note, she emailed the agent to inquire about the previous correspondence that she hadn't received, in turn he said to speak to the office, the office said speak to the agent (seems a regular occurrence here). Anyhoo, eventually the office said they posted it and to contact the post office but, of course, they hadn't sent it recorded delivery so it's her word against theirs (again, seems to be a regular occurrence with Chandlers).

 

 

I've decided to pay it outright for her. I'll do it by going into the bank and doing it - I'm not giving anyone my card number. Now, I've asked her to phone Chandlers for their bank details as I'm pretty dubious about paying an agent direct - I mean, the account could be anyone's and then Chandlers could say they didn't receive it etc.. where do I stand here?

 

 

thanks in advance

[Bailiff Advice]

 

I've decided to pay it outright for her. I'll do it by going into the bank and doing it - I'm not giving anyone my card number. Now, I've asked her to phone Chandlers for their bank details as I'm pretty dubious about paying an agent direct - I mean, the account could be anyone's and then Chandlers could say they didn't receive it etc.. where do I stand here?

 

thanks in advance

 

Have you tried visiting Chandlers on-line payment section of their website?

[grannyw]

nope... not yet but will do so. I've actually got the details now ... I've just read something though. regarding the original notice of enforcement. if Chandlers can't provide a tracking number then would this fall within section 7 of the interpretation act 1978? (sorry have been delving in all over the shop on t'nterweb_.

[Peterbard]

Probably, but it would still lie with you to be able to show on the balance of probabilities that the letter was not received ("unless the contrary is proved"), not likely to happen.

I know that the FOTL websites say otherwise but they are all full of that kind of nonsense aren't they.

[mikeymack2002]

Probably, but it would still lie with you to be able to show on the balance of probabilities that the letter was not received ("unless the contrary is proved"), not likely to happen.

I know that the FOTL websites say otherwise but they are all full of that kind of nonsense aren't they.

 

 

Full of nonsense not sure what you mean here but... Delivery of notices (can be argued that this applies to letters also) this was covered in Court in 2011/2 as stated in Calladine would this not apply here? In Calladine it was held the notice ... I will let you find out the rest of the quote...

 

 

Anyway this can be argued as to the accuracy of the details of the delivery instructions on the front of the letter... Then the proof remains with the sender that the letter/document was received, properly addressed...

[mikeymack2002]

My step daughter has received a Notice of Enforcement from Chandlers, Bromley. This is for non payment of council tax when her and her husband were together in 2014. She has not had any letter from her Council regarding this non-payment (though, on phoning the Council they said they sent them). She is now a single non-working mother and the claimed debt is now in the £1k mark. The letter was delivered at 8.15 this morning. As she has a young baby she was up at 7 a.m. The bailiff did not knock at the door. She has phoned the council who refuse to accept payment as they say it's in the hands of chandlers.

 

 

Would you be prepared to post up the 'documents' you/Daughter have' suitable redacted of course it must be in a PDF format. This way we can see what you have been given... It may help to know what you have...

[Peterbard]

Full of nonsense not sure what you mean here but... Delivery of notices (can be argued that this applies to letters also) this was covered in Court in 2011/2 as stated in Calladine would this not apply here? In Calladine it was held the notice ... I will let you find out the rest of the quote...

 

 

Anyway this can be argued as to the accuracy of the details of the delivery instructions on the front of the letter... Then the proof remains with the sender that the letter/document was received, properly addressed...

 

I mean FMOTL theorising is nonsense MM

 

I also means that the act in question merely places the burden of proof on the recipient hardly helpful , unless you misinterpret its meaning.

 

Now you tell me what it is you are on about?

[Peterbard]

As for direct payment with your card to the EA, honestly there is no reason whatsoever that you should not. You have an invoice, the money is owed I believe, ring them up and pay it if you can simple as that.

All you are doing is putting off the inevitable and having sight of various documents on here is not going to help you or your daughter.

[grannyw]

thanks for your replies... I've since found out that, wheras the Council said it wasn't any of their business anymore as it had been handed to a bailiff that that wasn't exactly correct. They should follow the collection of council tax and arrears good protocol and they can take the debt back and take out payments from her benefits (the protocol says that this is advisable rather than going direct to bailiff-stage). She is also classed as she is a vulnerable adult as she is a single parent with a young child who is unable to work and, again, the protocol should've been followed.

 

 

of course, this doesn't mean that she won't have to pay the bailiff.

 

 

I've left it with her to decide what to do - If she decides to pay it off in one go then I'll do that, if not then, well the decision is hers.

[Peterbard]

thanks for your replies... I've since found out that, whereas the Council said it wasn't any of their business anymore as it had been handed to a bailiff that that wasn't exactly correct. They should follow the collection of council tax and arrears good protocol and they can take the debt back and take out payments from her benefits (the protocol says that this is advisable rather than going direct to bailiff-stage). She is also classed as she is a vulnerable adult as she is a single parent with a young child who is unable to work and, again, the protocol should've been followed.

 

 

of course, this doesn't mean that she won't have to pay the bailiff.

 

 

I've left it with her to decide what to do - If she decides to pay it off in one go then I'll do that, if not then, well the decision is hers.

 

Actually it is 100% correct, whilst the debt is with the bailiff the council have no say in the collection process unless there are very extenuating circumstances.

[grannyw]

really? now this advice was from a government debt helpline who provided me with linked documents etc... ahh well

[Peterbard]

Also for anyone else reading this. Being a single mother with a young child does not make a person vulnerable under the law, regarding to bailiffs.

[brassnecked]

It is the OP's step daughter who is a single parent on benefits so an AOB should be a first choice rather than bailiffs surely as the council would know they are on benefits, mind you the EA from Chandlers would lose £305 from a single parents pittance if AOB meant account didn't go to Chandlers..