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    • OK - thank you. I understand the concept of LIP, and the need to keep my claim as simple and straightforward as possible. The legal arguments presented in what I called my skeleton statement were already in the original template I downloaded from this site. In that document I opened with "I am not proposing to set out the sequence of events." Might it be worthwhile for me to include a very brief timeline at that point, which would perhaps then allow it to become my witness statement? Or do you consider two separate documents are required? 
    • BF do you know where the instruction for skeleton has come from? Its just WX + docs. Do you think a skeleton is needed if the only issue in dispute is the legality of the exclusion terms. it seems excessive as well as wx no?   ah yes good point with LIP wx format i didnt think about the LIP judge softhand 
    • And incidentally, the really important part of this is that when you go to court, you are totally thorough and fluent not only with the facts – but with the effect of the legal points you are arguing. The facts are broadly not in dispute but the legal effect for instance of either having insurance or not having insurance. Of requiring insurance – these are the things you need to understand fully. Preparing your court bundle and eventually refining it bit by bit is terrific revision for you and will put you in control but also understanding its content fully and being fluent with its pages in the position of every point you are making is also essential.
    • Skeleton argument/witness statement – it's just a matter of terminology and we don't need to make an issue of it. Actually the three-page document that you have posted first of all and which you have called skeleton argument – is a witness statement which would be attached to the bundle which would be part of your indexed court bundle. I haven't looked at it in detail get or how it supports your claim or how it addresses any of the points made in the defence. I'll have to do that in the next two or three days. But for the moment, it looks fine. You have posted a second document which you are describing as an anonymized witness statement and as far as I can see, I agree with Cagger @jk2054 that much of your circle witness statement is a bit of a waffle and contains irrelevant information that you haven't remedied it in your final version which you say is chopped up. Also, you have received a suggestion of a template from Cagger @jk2054 and although this is going to be confusing for you, I don't think you should bother to use it. It is far too formal. You are a litigant in person and you need the flexibility of fully informing but informal documents which is what we are providing you with. We are suggesting models which we have been using over many cases and they all succeed in some them have been, complemented by the judge for the effectiveness and their clarity. You are litigant in person and one of the things you need to do is you need to have the judge on your side and helping you if necessary and this means that you don't want to start acting or talking or writing as if you are some kind of lawyer – you aren't. Being a litigant personage a certain sort of leverage and you should exploit that. The templates that we are suggesting to you are still not the templates that a completely un-advised person would use but they are still thorough. Stick to them. I suggest that you follow the advice given by the site team here and avoid confusion by switching horses. So for the moment I would suggest that you stick to your original skeleton argument – which follows the format that we have been using on this forum. We do like to see the fully prepared bundle please. I think there should be a next step. Have you got hearing date? Have you got a date for filing your bundle? In fact I have just looked back and I see that your filing date is 8 July. That's fine
    • First of all – as has already been pointed out to you, this is not a defect in the usual way that we understand and so that means that you don't need to rely on your 30 day and six months rights to reject. You can get MOT test done and it turns out to be an MOT failure for any reason then you have the added weight that they have is sold you an unroadworthy vehicle. Who did the existing MOT? I have a sense that it was big motoring world themselves in which case this would give you even greater leverage that if you have an MOT fail and it seems fairly clear that the reason for the failure is something which existed for some time that that would also cast doubt over the MOT provided by big motoring world and this would be even more serious. In any event, the vehicle is not as described and I think that this is an immediate ground for cancelling the policy and even better than that I think it would be a good ground for resisting any deduction made for mileage used – although we will have to deal with as it comes. I have read on Facebook that big motoring world tend to insist on quite a big deduction per mile and I have a sense that they do this because they know they can get away with it because they know their customers are really just happy to get rid of the vehicle any cost. You have told us you've got to a position where they seem to have agreed that you have now drawn a blank and they are being obstructive. Maybe you can lay out a bullet point chronology of exactly what has happened so far – point by point. I don't think you've told us how much you pay for the vehicle and also we want to know a list of the other expenses to which you been put including insurance et cetera and if you cancel the insurance how much you are likely to lose. How long is it not been driven? Why is it not been driven by your son? Didn't you planned for the more expensive insurance premium before you bought it? I have a sneaking suspicion that maybe you bought it and then was surprised at how expensive it was and are now finding a reason to return it. Please be completely level with us and tell us if this forms part of your reason for wanting to return it. We need to know everything – straight dealing – so we can help you in the best way possible. Otherwise we will have surprises sprung on us and we will all be embarrassed and you may lose. In fact I see that we don't know anything about the current all – make, model, mileage, or price paid which have already asked you about. Any reason that we don't have these very basic and obvious details without having to ask for them? You refer to the two new runflat tyres – why? Are these new ones which came with the car or these new ones which you had to buy and if so why did you have to buy them and how much they cost. It will be nice not to have to cross-examine your every detail. It will save a lot of time. Please have a look at this post carefully, discern the questions and address each one please.
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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.


      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

Lots of debts, please help

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Please can someone advise how to get out of this mess?

My partner left me in September.

We paid half for everything

I work full time but have got in a mess

We have a car on finance.

Due to my mental health state, i have bipolar, i have got behind on rent, council tax and the car payments. I have a thread here for help with my car.

I asked for help with the CAB, a pound a month letter was arranged for 2 of the debts

I have a child tax credit overpayment of 1500

And stupidly, i took out 3 payday loans.

I have had car repairs, vet bills and had to pay those .

I have had a meeting with my landlord and i have to pay on time from next month or i get evicted.

Please an someone tell me how to take control and get straight

I want to act like an adult and stop worrying about how i'm going to afford electric and food

Thank you for any help

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Hello, thank you fo the reply

I work full time, rough take home pay 1130 a month

Rent 3200, paying rent plus 5 a week 474 total a month

Council tax 800 arrears, court this tuesday, should be 138 a month

Car finance hp in default, only had 6 month to pay, owe1,300

Wonga 250 in default

Quikquid 300, paid 64 off

Lending stream 250, paid 43

I have 1500 overpayment for child tax credit. I left it with the CAB and need to get an update

250 barclaycard 1.00 a month

Lowel 125. 1.00 a month

Carpet debt, 300 paying 5.00 a month


I have a son who lost his job and just signed on

And a son sanctioned on universl credit, but getting training help and should get a payment middle of february

I get paid on the 10th february

And have 100 left in the bank for food, gas electric, petrol

And my dog needs more pills on friday, she may have cancer


I don't have anyone to confide in as i feel stupid for sinking this low

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My ex paid half of everything. I have had a crisis i know, but all my gp does is give me antidepressants that make me hyper

And i struggle to get time off work for appointmets as i don't want work to know

So i leave it and muddle along

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I am sure that this forum will help.


My advice is to also call national debtline. They were brilliant when I helped a friend in similar circumstances to you.

CAG has helped me so much since I joined. Based on what I have learnt from others on here and my own experiences, I try to chip in and help others from time to time. I am not an expert and give my opinion only. Always check with the more experienced CAG members before making important decisions.


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You can and will get through it, you have taken some good steps already, being here and having gone to CAB are good things. Ok so from your debts obviously Rent Arrears and Council Tax are the highest priority debts, do you private rent, are you entitled to any housing benefit or council tax credits. What age is the car, what is its approx worth. things like



Quick Quid

Lending Stream


Lowell and

carpet debt are all the lowest priority and should be £1 max per month for now at least


If it helps i myself at one point was over 7k in debt from 3 priority debts so i know what its like, but i am almost clear now, and eventually, you can be too :)

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Kaz, Welcome back to CAG.


Not having the best time I see and Im sorry to hear about your situation. We will try to help as best as we can.

We need to try and get your head above board. Priority debts.


Rent, Council tax etc... Are priorities. So cocentrate your focus on those.

As for PDL... Not priority and I understand why you turned to these. Due to your situation, I think Stepchange could be very good for you now.

Have you approached them before? They are specialists and itll look better with HMRC and The local council if you are getting help. Plus itll relieve some stress from you.


I see youve been to the CAB, where is that right now? Ill ask other members to advise.

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I have had a crisis i know, but all my gp does is give me antidepressants that make me hyper

And i struggle to get time off work for appointmets as i don't want work to know


If you work for a large employer, they may be able to offer confidential support and advice through their occupational health department. Many businesses are waking up to the fact that mental health is widespread and affects many people in the workplace.





No... you can't eat my brain just yet. I need it a little while longer.

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If you work for a large employer, they may be able to offer confidential support and advice through their occupational health department. Many businesses are waking up to the fact that mental health is widespread and affects many people in the workplace.


Yes... The mental impact is drastic. Failing that, your doctor maybe able to sort something out.

Also some good advice previously... Speak to national debtline... Could also advise.

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Thank you everyone

I rent from a housing association

I have help from them. I am in a 4 bed house with high council tax

I need to downsize but i can't because of my arrears

So i'm stuck paying high bills. I don't need all these rooms.


Step debt change sent me a load of paperwork, but not much practical help

My sons are on a housing list for a 2 bed flat

And if push came to shove, i could stay with my daughter and leave this mess

But that really is a last resort

And private renting needs a big deposit, credit checks and higher rent

I just need a cheaper place and a plan to clear my debts

But i struggle with day to day living expenses

My head is just all over the place with being dumped and trying to cope on my own

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Could someone please advise about court with my coucil tax debt. I'm dreading it!

My debt help from my housing association said i don't have to go, but how will they know what is happening if i don't go?

I can go and face it, but is is too late to hand a letter in to court with a ststement of my finances and reasons, or should i just go and explain?

Thank you

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Hi Kaz, I understand, but try not to worry too much. Itll kick you down even more.

When is the date for court? Tuesday correct? It could be for a liability order. Have you had anybody attend the property from a bailiff company maybe?

Which council may I ask?

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What i worry about is paying the bills and getting to the end of the month before payday and having no food, gas or electric and running out of petrol

I need budgeting help to keep on track with repayments too

I'll have to try and write everything down

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