Interest added to CCJ for rent arrears - help

[mike1234567]

Right, I've tried to look through this again. Is it as simple as saying that The County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order 1991 says that the judgement can't include interest on a debt of less than £5,000. County Courts Act 1984 s74 says that the judgement determines how much interest is applied (but it can't, as under £5,000).

 

I still don't see how this rules out contractual interest being added, and I do note that on the other thread Ford you said "and contractual PJI is something that the english courts can't award on a judgment". So how does a claimant ever get post judgement contractual interest? Do they just not get it, ever? I don't understand the link between the legislation, which I think is talking about statutory interest, and contractual interest.

 

Is the cliamany in breach of County Courts Act 1984 s70 by trying to claim interest that wasn't in the judgement?

 

I'm going to wait to see what happens with my complaint - I got a letter from the court at the weekend saying I should have a response within 10 working days.

[Guest]

So how does a claimant ever get post judgement contractual interest

as i posted (with statute and case law), they wld need to make a separate claim (and then get judgment) for it

 

in yours, the only amount that can be subject to enforcement atm is the original judgment amount that you posted together with any costs for its enforcement. again, the statute and case law confirms.

the amount is not over 5k!

[mike1234567]

Thanks Ford, can you tell me again what the statute is please? I think the Case law you're referring to is Chubb & Anor v Dean & Anor paragraph 9 but if I have to write back I don't really want to start talking about things like that that I know nothing about!

 

This is so confusing:???:

[Guest]

I still don't see how this rules out contractual interest being added

the case law posted states that it cant be awarded on an initial judgment.

 

that ps on the order you posted

If judgement is for £5,000 or more, or is in respect of a debt which attracts contractual or statutory interest for late payment, the claimant may be entitled to further interest

. says 'may' be entitled, not 'is'.

[mike1234567]

Is that pargraph 10?

[Guest]

post # 384 from that case inthat thread linked, and bailii

'It seems to me that must imply that he considered the court had no jurisdiction of its own to award post-judgement interest aside from the provisions of the judgements Act' the s17 judgments act relates to statutory interest (which cant be applicable in yours as is under 5k (91 Order)).

[mike1234567]

Thanks Ford, I think I'm getting it. Would you write to the court about this? They sent me the letter the claimant had sent to the court explaining the interest he was adding, without comment. Does that mean they think that's ok? Or should I write to the claimant to tell them to shove it and continuing to pursue interest is harassment?

[Guest]

in sum (from case law etc)

the only post judgment interest that can be awarded on an initial judgment debt (money) ie 'relevant judgment' is statutory interest (as per s17 judgments act), but then subject to the 91 Order. therefore, any post judgment contractual interest would require a separate claim and then judgment on it to be enforceable.

 

did the court give a further judgment including the added contractual interest claimed by the claimant?

[mike1234567]

No, just the one judgement.

 

I don't understand why the court just sent me a copy of the letter the claimant sent to them.

[Guest]

I'm going to wait to see what happens with my complaint - I got a letter from the court at the weekend saying I should have a response within 10 working days.

 

is that a complaint to the court?

[mike1234567]

Yes, that was a complaint to the court about the amount of administrative errors they've made during the case (incorrect judgements, sending attachment of earnings stuff to wrong address, full attachment of earnings order when it was suspended and sending details to my employer etc.). Part of the complaint was that they hadn't responded to my query on interest and the value of the attachment of earnings order - but then they did by sending the claimant's letter. On that side I don't know what's happening now. Actually, as the amount on the attachment of earnings order is wrong (claimant had added £55 in interest) do I have to query/objection to that now (again!)?

[Guest]

ok.

 

Would you write to the court about this? They sent me the letter the claimant had sent to the court explaining the interest he was adding, without comment

it may be an idea to put a note into court accordingly re no post judgment contractual.

see what the guys say though.

[mike1234567]

Thanks, it would be good to get some thoughts on a way forward. I think I NEED to object to the judgement as the total amount is wrong, otherwise I'll be left in a few years with an issue at the end. Is it worth mentioning anything about the actions of the claimant? I find it astounding that they have just calculated the interest they want to add then included it in the total in their attachment of earnings application - isn't that close to fraudulent?

[Guest]

is the pjci amount they are trying to add 55£.

go on, why not send a note to the court maybe something along the lines of; thankyou for sending a copy of the claimants letter dated xxxx. it is noted however, that the high court has stated that xxxxxx (excerpt attached). therefore, it is contended that the claimants addition of pjci to the judgment dated xxxx is without foundation.

it might be a bit forward, but you are an LiP..

up to you, just a thought

[mike1234567]

From the last page, this is what the letter said

 

The judgement included interest if the debt attracted contractual or statutory interest. The contractual interest set out in the tenancy agreement is 3.5%. The additional amount owed has been calculated from the date of the original claim 20/2/2016 to the date of the application for the Attachment of Earnings Order 25/6/2016. This represents 125 days at £0.44 accrued interest per day, a total of £55. This sum was added to the judgement sum of £4909.32 to give the balance due figure on the Request for the Attachment of Earnings Order.

 

Yes the years are wrong. The tenancy agreement didn't say 3.5%, it said 3% above base rate. So it's not all post-judgement, as the judgement was in May - it's from the date of the original claim to the date of the attachment of earnings order.

 

I think this is shocking as the judgement clearly said what was owed up to the date of judgement - claimant taking the ****.

[mike1234567]

Well, I've emailed the court, will see what happens. Wanted to do it tonight as everything is quite clear in my head, but would still appreciate any thoughts that people have. Thanks

[Guest]

fair dos. see what they come back with. what was the outline of yr email, the points we've been discussing?

[mike1234567]

Just reading from another thread - can I try to claim costs as a LIP due to the claimant erroneously trying to claim costs? What about the administrative errors by the court...due to the time I've had to take trying to sort those out.

[mike1234567]

OK so I got a response to the complaint about the court.

 

 

1. They said they can't comment on the CCJ's being incorrect as that was done by CCMCC (I'll have to check that as I thought they were sent by the local court, and that's who I contacted about it. Not sure).
   
2. They said the attachment of earnings info going to the wrong address was due to the old address being used by the claimant's solicitor - can I make any sort of claim against them as I had updated my address with them earlier?
   
3. They admitted an 'oversight' in processing the full order.
   
4. They said if I disagree with the letter from the claimant about the interest I should dispute - I've already done that as discussed above (sent the letter to Ford on PM to take a look).
   
5. They said if I want to request compensation I need to provide an itemised breakdown. Can I claim anything for reputation damage? Is this where I can claim something as a LiP due to the amount of chasing and figuring out what the heck is going on?
   

 

Thanks for any thoughts

[mike1234567]

Apologies for bumping but any thoughts on this?

[Guest]

4 - do they mean dispute with the claimant? they cant add on pjci to the original judgment debt amount re enforcement, even if the pjci was legit. it wld need a separate claim and specific judgment on it...(something perhaps you cld've expanded on in yr letter to the court, re the specific authority on it, and questioning whether the court included such pjci in the judgment (as the claimant seems to think so). but, they didnt, as the judgment says interest to judgment.

1 - seems it was, then went to local court re enforcement. check on that.

[mike1234567]

4 - they mean dispute the attachment of earnings order. It seems like the claimant has just applied for it with the interest they want to claim added and this has been processed by the court. Shouldn't this have been checked? They could have claimed any amount!

1 - yes they are right on that. Don't think I can take that forward as it was almost a year ago and I should have done it sooner.

 

Any thoughts on what is reasonable to claim from the court for these problems? I'm just waiting to hear back fom the objection - bit worried I've messed it up and might get in trouble with the court!

[Guest]

yes, it shld be checked/cross referenced with the judgment. but it seems that they just rely on the signed form (contains that same ps 'may' re post interest). as you say, they cld just put any amount they believe in, and then leave it to the defendant to dispute, at cost. (i wonder whether the form goes before a judge, or whether court staff decide/rubber stamp it?)

heres the form the claimant prob used

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n337-eng.pdf

 

ps, i dont think you wld be in 'trouble with the court'. you are entitled to dispute/complain if things are wrong.

[mike1234567]

Thanks Ford. Do you think I should try to claim anything from the court for the issues (they admited the full attachment of earnings order being processed was an error) or just leave it and wait for the response to the objection?

[Guest]

remind me, what formal 'objection' is still in place awaiting a response.