are P.E trying it on?

[marcostandy]

Hi guys and a happy new year to you all.

 

a friend at work has come to me for help regarding a parking charge from our old favourites parking eye.

 

the letter she has received says that the alleged offence took place on the 29th of December last year

but the letter demanding 100 pounds is dated the 13th of January (received on the 16th).

 

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the company concerned has 14 days from the offence to make contact with the rk is this still (or was ever )correct?

thanks in advance

[armadillo71]

For keeper liability they have to follow Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012.

 

For ANPR, paragraph 9 ;

 

 

9(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph*6(1)(b)*is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.

 

(2)The notice must—

 

(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;

 

(b)inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full;

 

©describe the parking charges due from the driver as at the end of that period, the circumstances in which the requirement to pay them arose (including the means by which the requirement was brought to the attention of drivers) and the other facts that made them payable;

 

(d)specify the total amount of those parking charges that are unpaid, as at a time which is—

 

(i)specified in the notice; and

 

(ii)no later than the end of the day before the day on which the notice is either sent by post or, as the case may be, handed to or left at a current address for service for the keeper (see sub-paragraph (4));

 

(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—

 

(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or

 

(ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;

 

(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—

 

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and

 

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

 

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

 

(g)inform the keeper of any discount offered for prompt payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available;

 

(h)identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment or notification to the creditor may be made;

 

(i)specify the date on which the notice is sent (where it is sent by post) or given (in any other case).

 

(3)The notice must relate only to a single period of parking specified under sub-paragraph (2)(a) (but this does not prevent the giving of separate notices which each specify different parts of a single period of parking).

 

(4)The notice must be given by—

 

(a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or

 

(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

 

(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.

 

(6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

 

(7)When the notice is given it must be accompanied by any evidence prescribed under paragraph*10.

 

(8)In sub-paragraph*(2)(g)*the reference to arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints includes—

 

(a)any procedures offered by the creditor for dealing informally with representations by the keeper about the notice or any matter contained in it; and

 

(b)any arrangements under which disputes or complaints (however described) may be referred by the keeper to independent adjudication or arbitration.

 

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

[marcostandy]

thanks for your reply. so if my understanding is correct then they are a day late in serving the ntk?

[armadillo71]

thanks for your reply. so if my understanding is correct then they are a day late in serving the ntk?

 

Well the NTK has to be received in 14 days.... You are saying this isn't even dated in time!

Make sure it is not the reminder letter, then a simple response from the RK stating that they are not liable for the charge as the NTK is not compliant with schedule 4 of the POFA 2012.

[ericsbrother]

if this is the supposed NYK then it is 3 days too late, it has to be issued within 12 days and then they get 2 extra days to serve the notice. So, issue dates 30th-10th inclusive, service by 12th at latest.

As it was christmas PE seem to have realised they couldnt send out their NTK's in time so sent out other demands or sent them late and hoped no-one will know better. Undoubtedly they will claim taht they were compliant and may even produce a copy of the original but you can stuff them on that one should it be necessary by demanding the metadata from the creation of the letter. Obviously they wont be handing it over so will either lie or withdraw their claim "as a gesture of goodwill"

[ericsbrother]

If you want to you can send a letter to the DVLA and ask them who has accessed your keeper details, when and for what reason.

I would bet the PE will claim to have sent out the NTK under the 12 day rule on the 29th but if they didnt get your details from the dvla before 4pm the same day you parked that would be an impossibility.

[marcostandy]

Thanks for your input guys I've passed it on. as for the letter itself it seems very vague about what they are claiming for it says things like you have either failed to purchase valid parking time (whatever that is) or not parked in accordance with the terms and conditions.

their so called evidence consists of 2 black screenshots with only her reg visible. (time stamped) also I noticed on their letter that they say she can appeal to them direct if she fells the ticket is unfair there is no mention of p.o.p.la or any other sort of appeals panal that she can appeal to just themselves which I thought was a requirement when sending people these demands.

I also noticed that there was no mention of the pofa in their letter which is I presume the bases that they are claiming on. any thoughts? cheers

[armadillo71]

The NTK normally has the POFA and POPLA information on the reverse side...

[marcostandy]

just checked and there is nothing about either on the ntk (just ways to pay) the only appeals they are offering must be to them direct (it says appeals can only be made in English as well).

[armadillo71]

Well if they are not claiming to use the POFA then only the driver can be held liable.

 

The RK should reply as post #4, and tell them to take the matter up with the driver... who you are under no obligation to name and will not be doing so.

 

Add that no further correspondence will be entered into and any further received will be treated as harassment and dealt with accordingly.

[ericsbrother]

so this is a follow up letter to the non-existent NTK that wasnt sent out on the 29th december and no other day to be valid for this further claim. Check with the DVLA regarding the access to your data and if the access request via KADOE was later than 1600 on the 29th they can never be within the time frame allowed by the PoFA so you can respond telling them they have been caught with their trousers down and to go and bother someone else as you are not liable.