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Yorkshire bank refusing to refund card fraud - help


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Hello. I hope I have put this in the correct place, I am seriously in need of some advice.

 

Over the christmas period, a number of payments disappeared from my bank account totalling over 400 pounds overall.

 

 

The name on my statements was 'virtue fusion' and after checking it appeared they own a bunch of gambling sites,

however I did not know which site the payments were made on,

I sent an email to every site that is operated by this company.

 

 

Eventually, after a bunch of no matches... I received an email back stating that the account was on a certain site.

They told me my details did not match the details on the account (not surprising as the account was not mine)

and advised I send in a bank statement to show the transactions.

They also asked for my correct details and said they had now blocked the account.

 

My father advised me to call my banks fraud department as they would be able to issue a refund for the fraud

while the investigation by the company was ongoing.

 

 

I did this and was told I would get a refund by 5pm that day.

No refund arrived

 

 

I called the next day only to be told the refund would now take 2 weeks.

This wasn't fine as such but it wasn't a problem as my rent was not due until yesterday, which would have been the 14th day.

However, still no refund arrives.

 

 

I called back today and have now been told that I will NOT be receiving a refund at all

as the company in question has my correct details on record (name, date of birth and address. All of which they asked me for in order to close the account).

 

 

Now, how this means it wasn't fraud to start with, I don't know BUT,

the company already told me they did not have my correct details

and have obviously replied to whatever the bank sent them

with the details that they told me I HAD to give in order to close the account on their site.

 

I am now late with my rent and have no way at all of finding 400 quid from nowhere.

My bank is refusing to help, while the company just keep asking for bank statements.

 

 

My bank reckon its safe to send the company my bank statement but given they have deceived me so far anyway,

I don't feel too safe doing so as I feel it could be used against me further down the complaint in some way.

I also do not really see what good it would do as clearly they aren't willing to help me given whats happened so far.

 

My question is, what now?

I am completely screwed for my rent.

No-one seems willing to help and large companies appear to be lying in order to retain MY money that has been spent on their site fraudulently.

I am so upset over this it is unreal.

I haven't cried in years but I have been crying ever since I hung up the phone to my bank, out of both frustration and worry.

 

 

I have never had fraud on a bank account before ever, but I always assumed that if it did happen, the bank would be on your side. Apparently not.

 

I am unwilling to just let this go as it is such a large amount of money to me and its the principle of it all too to be quite honest.

There has to be something i can do about it all.

Edited by GavF
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Hello and welcome to CAG. I'm sorry to hear that you're having problems.

 

You're in the right forum if you're with Yorkshire and Clydesdale, if not please tell us which bank it is and we can move your thread. :)

 

The forum guys should be along later with advice for you.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Present for you;

 

 

 

Complain to the bank that they are not helping you at all;

I sent an email to him back when I was told I had to wait the 2 weeks for a refund after being told that I would have one by the end of the day. I have not had a reply yet.

 

But thank you :)

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have you gotten actionfraud and the FOS+FCA involved

if not do so

 

 

its a CRIME.get the AF ref number.

 

 

then report that to your banks fraud debt.

 

 

have you tried chargeback and cancelling the card CPA>

 

 

sounds like this was card skiming fraud?

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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have you gotten actionfraud and the FOS+FCA involved

if not do so

 

 

its a CRIME.get the AF ref number.

 

 

then report that to your banks fraud debt.

 

 

have you tried chargeback and cancelling the card CPA>

 

 

sounds like this was card skiming fraud?

 

 

dx

I think chargeback is what I tried to do. I asked to speak to fraud and was put through to retail disputes

 

It has been reported to actionfraud already, though from what I gather they tend to use reports mainly for statistics rather than actually investigating.

 

The card was cancelled already. I am not sure how on earth this could have happened to be quite honest. It was a new card though..like literally the week before the payments started, I was sent the card.

 

I apparently need a letter of deadlock to take this onto the ombudsman..which I have now asked for. The bank seem to think that a reply to the complaint I have made will suffice though, despite me being told it HAS to be a letter of deadlock? I have never gone through anything like this before and I seem to be getting told different things from all companies involved.

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sounds like your bank is Halifax or Lloyds etc

 

 

cancelling the card will not stop this

 

 

you need to cancel the cpa.

 

 

have a read of this stuff below

your bank is letting you down sadly

 

 

they should have blocked the payments after the first suspicious transaction.

 

 

GENERAL NOTES ON CHARGEBACK & Continuous Payment Authority & BACS

.....

We have been telling people to put a letter into their bank instructing them

not to make any payments under any circumstances to these companies

.

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/- it works!

usually this should be done using the number on your debit card

.

banks MUST follow written intructions from their customers !

.

CANCELLING YOUR DEBIT CARD DOES NOT STOP CPA'S

.

This fsa guide has now been updated:

.

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/static/pubs/consumer_info/know_your_rights_guide.pdf

http://www.fca.org.uk/news/continuous-payment-authorities-your-right-to-cancel

.

Here's the text:

.

Cancelling a regular

card payment:

.

When you give your credit or debit card details to a company and authorise them to take regular payments from your account,

such as for a gym membership or magazine subscription,

it is known as a ‘recurring transaction’ or ‘continuous payment authority’.

.

These are often confused with direct debits, but do not offer the same guarantee if the amount or date of the payment changes.

.

In most cases, regular payments can be cancelled by telling the company taking the payments.

.

However,

you have the right to cancel them directly with your bank or card issuer by telling it that you have stopped permission for the payments.

Your bank or card issuer must then stop them – it has no right to insist that you agree this first with the company taking the payments.

.

Be aware, though, that you will still be responsible for paying any money that you owe.

and that CANELLING YOUR CARD WILL NOT STOP THE CPA

.

..

.

New june 2013

.

Regulator orders Banks and mutuals to review complaints about not cancelling recurring payments from November 2009.

.

Consumers who have set up a regular payment from their account will now be able to successfully cancel that arrangement

by contacting their card provider, the Financial Conduct Authority said.

.

The FCA has been examining how easy it is for customers to cancel Continuous Payment Authorities (CPAs)

due either to payday lendersicon or for other regular payments such as subscriptions or gymicon memberships.

.

CPAs, which are also commonly called recurring transactions or recurring payments,

are relatively easy to set up but can be hard to cancel, causing problems for consumers trying to manage their finances,the FCA said.

.

Now, following the FCA review of how the largest high street banks and mutuals process requests to cancel CPAs, they have agreed that they will ensure that when

a customer asks for a recurring payment to end, that will be sufficient to cancel the arrangement. They have also confirmed that should a payment go through by

mistake following cancellation by a customer the customer will be refunded immediately.

.

In addition to securing this commitment, the largest banks and mutuals have agreed to review every individual complaint they have received about the non-

cancellation of a CPA and to pay redress where payments have continued to be made despite the customer cancelling the arrangement. This applies to all complaints

since November 2009 when the Financial Services Authority, the FCA’s predecessor, began regulating banking conduct.

.

Clive Adamson, the FCA’s director of supervision, said: “It’s important that consumers are confident that banks are meeting their everyday banking needs. Today

customers can be confident that when they ask for a Continuous Payment Authority to be cancelled – it will be cancelled - and that it can be done easily.

.

“We recognise that historically this is an area where some customers have struggled but the banks and mutuals have responded positively to our work on this issue.

From now on we expect them to be getting this right. In addition, they have committed to review past complaints.”

.

.

Also mentioned your displeasure that as whomever took your money had obviously attempted this many times

probably activating your banks own anti fraud software - nobody had the decency to inform my you this was going on.?

.

.In the FSA's own words:

.

..

What should I do about a payment from my account that I didn’t authorise?

.

Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction.

Money can only be taken from your account if you have authorised the transaction

or if your bank can prove you were at fault –

.

see below.

Contact your bank immediately if you notice an unauthorised payment from your account.

.

If you are sure you did not authorise the payment, you can claim a refund.

.

However, your bank does not have to refund you if you do not tell it about the payment until 13 months

or more after the date it left your account.

.

Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction

.

------------------

.

Your bank may only refuse a refund for an unauthorised transaction if:

.

? it can prove you authorised the transaction

– though your bank cannot simply say that use of your password,

card and PIN proves you authorised a payment; or

.

? it can prove you are at fault because you acted fraudulently,

or because you deliberately,

or with gross negligence, failed to protect the details of your card, PIN or password in a way that allowed the transaction

.

-----------------------

.

How quickly must my bank refund me for an unauthorised transaction?

.

The bank must make the refund immediately unless it has evidence that one of the above reasons applies.

Your bank may ask you to answer some questions and fill out a form confirming what has happened,

but it cannot delay your refund while it waits for you to return the form.

If the bank has evidence that one of the above reasons for refusing a refund applies,

it may investigate before making a refund

but must look into it as quickly as possible.

If your bank rejects your claim for a refund it should explain why.

If the transaction was on a credit card, the refund may not happen immediately.

But the card issuer cannot charge interest or ask for repayment of the amount unless it can prove you are liable to pay

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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OK will take that letter in tomorrow, thank you

 

Unfortunately the bank has now made perfectly clear that I will not be getting a refund for the fraud,

 

 

so the rest.

 

 

.I don't really know what to do about it? I

 

 

actually mentioned the FCA thing to them and they reckon that as this merchant had my address, name and DOB

 

 

this means that I did authorize the transactions?!

 

 

Seems a bit crazy to me.

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but they didn't

yo've been the victim offraud

 

 

they NEED to sort it not run away...

 

 

who is the bank lets name and shame them.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Yorkshire bank.

 

I'm not sure how to argue this, as just get put through to supervisors who repeat the same thing over and over at me and say they cannot help as the correct details are held by the company so this means this cannot be fraud and there is nothing they can do about it.

 

Also I don't know why my previous post spaced out in the way it did, I did not do that.

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I think i'd be sending a brief email to the CEO

as fko pointed in post 4

 

 

thisis not right

they are their to help you

and must by the FCA rules conc etc etc

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I think i'd be sending a brief email to the CEO

as fko pointed in post 4

 

 

thisis not right

they are their to help you

and must by the FCA rules conc etc etc

 

With us here we can help as well, CAG has a pretty good record of getting stuff turned around.

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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I sent an email to that email address 2 weeks back. Here is the exact email, please tell me what I did wrong? or help me with what to put into the new one

 

Good afternoon, my name is Gavin F****** and I wish to make a complaint about some members of staff and the situation I am finding myself in right now.

 

Someone has stolen over 400 pound from me over the christmas period. I reported this as soon as the banks were reopen and was yesterday told that I would get a refund by 5pm. My card was also cancelled.

 

I checked my account this morning, and not only has no refund appeared, more payments have been taken out, leaving me overdrawn when my account should be 20 pounds in credit.

 

I contacted retail disputes again (I originally wanted to log this as fraud, not a retail dispute..but was told it had to be disputes) only to be told I would be receiving no refund until the company that has stolen from me gets back to you. This is unacceptable and infact I have now found on the FCA website, that its not meant to be happening

 

'

Why a refund can be refused

 

Your bank can only refuse a refund for an unauthorised payment if:

 

  • it can prove you authorised the transaction – though your bank cannot simply say that use of your password, card and PIN conclusively proves you authorised a payment
  • it can prove you are at fault because you acted fraudulently or, because you deliberately, or with ‘gross negligence’, failed to protect the details of your card, PIN or password in a way that allowed the transaction, or
  • you told your bank about an unauthorised payment 13 months or more after the date it left your account, so make sure you contact the bank as soon as possible

You may have to pay up to the first £50 of an unauthorised transaction if your card has been lost or stolen, or your bank can show you failed to keep the details of your password or PIN safe.

However, you will not be liable for any unauthorised payments made after you notified the bank or card issuer of the loss, theft or unauthorised use of your card or password – unless it can prove you acted fraudulently.

If your bank refuses to refund an unauthorised payment it should explain why.'

 

 

 

 

This is the exact wording on the FCA site. So your employees who have now denied me a refund after initially stating I would get one are out of line and acting against FCA guidelines.

 

 

What makes it all worse is that MORE payments left my account last night, leaving me overdrawn when I should be 20 pound in credit. This may not be a lot of money to the people who answer my calls who almost seem to be laughing at me, but it is a large amount to me.

 

 

I have now been told I will have to wait 14 days for a refund. Apparently I need to wait until the company who stole from me get back to you. This is completely unacceptable as they could just...never get back to you, then what?!

 

 

I look forward to your reply

 

 

Gavin F********

 

As I stated earlier, I didn't get a reply at all to this.

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send something again

tell them this is XX days old now

 

 

you will be ringing the FOS on Thursday morning if nothing is sorted.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

OK I have sent another. Do not expect a reply again though. Thank you for the help so far but I am really starting to feel this is a lost cause.

 

I have my landlord breathing down my neck (rightfully) as I do not have his money. I have no way of getting it right now, I can lend it off my father in 2 weeks but by then it will be even more late. The whole situation is just ridiculous to me.

 

 

How on earth it can be said that these payments are not fraudulent as the merchant has my name, address and DOB (which were provided to them by myself anyway in order to 'locate'/close the account that had been set up with my card...)I really don't know.

 

 

-------------------------

On phone again to them now, still unwilling to help. Reckon this matter is no longer being dealt with by fraud/disputes but by 'customer relations'.

 

 

Refusing to budge or tell me why I am not entitled to a refund. I am in tears. I may actually be evicted over all of this and they are just palming me off over and over again.

 

---------------------------

 

OK I am actually slightly hysterical now. They have me in tears again, unwilling to help at all, keep going on saying they sent me a letter yesterday about my complaint, they can't tell me the reason I am being blamed for the fraud, which is what they are doing by refusing to accept it.

 

I am a mess right now. I don't know what I am going to do.

 

The thought of losing my home through begin a victim of fraud has just broken me. They are going to email me to let me know if its possible for me to get a temporary overdraft so I can pay my rent, but I am not optimistic about that given the lack of concern from anyone I have spoken to about mt situation.

 

 

I dont even see why I have to get an overdraft but its the last thing I could think of. I will be turned down though..I already know it, they only agreed to look into it to get me off the phone

 

And still no reply from CEO either

Edited by GavF
Trying to sort out post, it has space out in an odd way and also posts have merged themselves together?
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My previous posts seem to have merged into one and now it doesnt make sense?

 

 

I think I am doing this posting thing wrong, I have never been on a forum before until I joined here.

 

 

I have now edited it, and took out the spacing that has randomly inserted itself in the middle of sentences also

 

Also yes, I was turned down for overdraft that I mentioned earlier.

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don't worry

simply many single line posts were merged to one post

 

 

time to talk to the fos on all this me thinks

 

 

give them a ring tomorrow.

 

 

it is seriously un acceptable that you have now to try and get an overdraft

when the initial problem was one of card fraud that Yorkshire bank refuse to admit too.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Right... You need too calm down ASAP... You are not in the right mindset to be dealing with them...

 

The hysterical / crying etc will get you no where and neither will raising your temper...

 

It's with Customer Relations at the moment... This is to confirm good thing... But we are going to push this with a proper letter to the MD which I will draft you today...

 

I want you to summarise in small points call by call what happened...

If you lose your composure again then this will all be for nothing...

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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I have calmed down about this now.

Mainly as I have sorted my rent by selling a few things.

 

 

Now I am angry at the situation rather than upset.

I no longer have a mobile phone, a cooker or a TV in my sitting room.

I will get these things back, but thats besides the point.

 

I recieved the letter from customer relations this morning.

They say that the bank have followed the correct guidelines in refusing my refund and that I still will not be getting one. Again as the merchant has my correct details.

 

And because a payment to the merchant was the first card payment made on my new card so they think its genuine because of this.

 

Honestly, I think thats even more fishy.

They also claim that the payments that went out after I reported it had been made days before and just not left my account yet.

 

First call - Told I would have a refund by 5pm and apologized to for the whole thing

 

Second call - Told refund would now take 14 days as they have to investigate first.

 

Third call - Told no refund would happen at all as merchant had my correct details.

 

Fourth and fifth...same as third.

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so who got your card details to do it

 

 

if it was a new card, how long had you had it?

did you request it yourself?

what happened to the old card?

 

 

the numbers on the cards old/new will be diff so someone must have copied the details from it before you got it..

 

 

this story is very worrying

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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so who got your card details to do it

 

 

if it was a new card, how long had you had it?

did you request it yourself?

what happened to the old card?

 

 

the numbers on the cards old/new will be diff so someone must have copied the details from it before you got it..

 

 

this story is very worrying

 

Agree, I want you to do 2 things ;

 

A ) Move banks.

B ) Refer this to the FOS

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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I have put in a switch request already. Switching to RBS as my partner has been with them for years and years and has never had a complaint about anything. I really don't know why I didn't just go to them to begin with..wish I had now as I don't think this would have happened with another company.

 

I have no idea how anyone could have got my card details. This was a completely new bank account..the card came for it, the payments started showing a week or so later. I thought I had used the card before the payments started being requested but from what the bank says, I hadn't. Which is odd as I remember withdrawing cash the same day I received the card in the post.

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keep going, there are opening coming here...

 

 

you say you withdrew cash

do you remember what ATM and where?

if a skimming device wasfitted to that machine

then that's how they got the card etails.

 

 

keep thinking...

 

 

once you know the basic details its quite possible for the owner of that atm machine to check record for that period and investigate if other people were done over by the machine at the time.

 

 

then you have aroute to prove fraud by skimming etc.

 

 

a long time ago I was involved in an investigation for a work mate.

 

 

he 100% knew he did not use a gambling site

it took almost 6mts to prove his card was skimmed at a cash point.

 

 

he eventually got the £350 back

a written apology from the bank

and £150 compo.

 

 

this was 3yrs after the event actually happened.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Nothing looked off about the machine (I do check that as I am seriously paranoid about card skimming) and its not really in a place where someone could fiddle with it without being noticed (right next to the till in a quite busy store)

 

The bank, however, claim that the first transaction made on the card..even before I used the ATM, was to this merchant. Though the money didn't start coming off my account until way after that. Its all confusing me so much

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