Excel enforcement - council tax!!2015-2016

[paulie100]

Had a visit from bailiff at 7am this morning, this years council tax!!2015-2016..

 

 

didn't let them in and don't intend to,

car was outside but in my son's name.

..he asked for log book and insurance...(isn't log book enough proof?)...

.

Now he has seen those documents would it be illegal for him to attempt to clamp it?

 

If I don't leave them in will it just be sent back to the council and bailiff fees removed?

shall i just wait?

 

I asked the council if i could make an arrangement to pay and they said make it with Excel not us

...anything i can do about this?

 

The bailiff threatened to call the police when i wouldn't leave him in, can they do this?

 

I assume the bailiff will try calling again?

 

Thanks

[ploddertom]

You certainly do not have to let him of your own free will, it is a seriously bad idea. As for involving the Police it sounds as if he may be trying to intimidate you into believing you have to let him in. He may try & hoodwink the Police into thinking you are obstructing him in the course of his duty & of course the chances are the Police will know no better, if they do come calling then speak to them through a locked door or upstairs window.

 

You are correct in your thoughts it may eventually go back to the Council but this will be some way off yet & the Bailiff will visit again a few times.

[paulie100]

Thanks Ploddertom

Would the police really be interested in this being a civil matter, I was very polite to the bailiff by the way:)

Don't see what they will get out of calling back...unless they think they may find the door open?

As they have now seen the log book etc for the car, will they leave it alone?

Thanks

[Bailiff Advice]

 

As they have now seen the log book etc for the car, will they leave it alone?

Thanks

 

Although the V5C states upon it that it is only proof of the vehicle keeper, the fact remains that statutory regulations exists that state that the V5C is proof of ownership and bailiff companies know this.

You say that you want the council to take the account back. In most cases, the account would have been with the council as little as 2-3 weeks beforehand. Did you make a payment proposal with the council before they passed the debt to Excel?

[paulie100]

Hi

thanks, no i buried my head a little and am sorry now...

could you point me to the statutory regs on ownership at all?

should i make a payment arrangement with the bailiffs or wait until it is sent back?...what is best now?

thx

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Although the V5C states upon it that it is only proof of the vehicle keeper, the fact remains that statutory regulations exists that state that the V5C is proof of ownership and bailiff companies know this.

You say that you want the council to take the account back. In most cases, the account would have been with the council as little as 2-3 weeks beforehand. Did you make a payment proposal with the council before they passed the debt to Excel?

 

Where does it say this in statutory regulations? I'm not doubting you, I have just never seen it written that a v5c is PROOF, but it may be regarded as an INDICATION of ownership.

I.e, v5c in a wife's name, then we would require proof or PURCHASE.

V5c in a neighbours name at neighbours address would be deemed as absolute proof in almost all circumstances.

[Bailiff Advice]

Where does it say this in statutory regulations? I'm not doubting you, I have just never seen it written that a v5c is PROOF, but it may be regarded as an INDICATION of ownership.

 

V5c in a wife's name, then we would require proof or PURCHASE.

 

V5c in a neighbours name at neighbours address would be deemed as absolute proof in almost all circumstances.

 

I was asked a few months ago to write an editorial article on the subject of vehicle ownership and only a few days ago had a 'gentle reminder' as the editorial's publishing date is early January. I intend posting a copy of the article on the forum (under the discussion section) shortly after Christmas.

 

In relation to your point that if a V5C is in the wife's name that you would require proof or purchase. I am sorry but you are he WRONG (and this will be clear in my article).

 

In brief, the relevant Acts of Parliament (which I will be providing full details about) are clear in that the presumption is that the owner is the person in whose name the vehicle is registered. Accordingly, a Notice to Owner will be sent to the person who is named on the V5C.

 

If the person receiving the NtO considers that they are not the owner, then once again, the relevant Act of Parliament provides that they can appeal to the local authority.

[Bailiff Advice]

In relation to a Penalty Charge Notice, as mentioned above, the laws states that the person named on the V5C is considered to be the owner of the vehicle. There are only three ways in which this can be challenged:

 

One: By demonstrating that although the person named is the registered keeper, that he never owned the car. It would usually be the case that this involved some error with the DVLA registration.

 

Two: That the person disposed of the vehicle before the date of contravention.

 

Three: That he did not become the owner until after the date of the contravention.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

So from now on, even if its a £100,000 Bentley purchased by the debtor and used daily by the debtor, but registered to his wife, it cant be siezed? I think not ba. We do NOT accept a v5c as proof of ownership and nowhere in the regulations does it state that it is.

Its an indicator of ownership, but not proof.

 

However, if what you are saying is correct, then a financed car registered to the debtor is fair game? As you say, the v5c is proof of ownership and therefore the finance company cant argue that?

[Bailiff Advice]

So from now on, even if its a £100,000 Bentley purchased by the debtor and used daily by the debtor, but registered to his wife, it cant be siezed? I think not ba. We do NOT accept a v5c as proof of ownership and nowhere in the regulations does it state that it is.

Its an indicator of ownership, but not proof.

 

However, if what you are saying is correct, then a financed car registered to the debtor is fair game? As you say, the v5c is proof of ownership and therefore the finance company cant argue that?

 

I take great care in making sure that I provide accurate information. Honestly, I am correct on this particular subject (and my information is based upon the Court of Appeal).I will pm some info to you over the weekend.

 

Using the scenario above (the £100k Bentley). In fact, the new regs do permit the car to be seized in some cases. The new clause allows for 'jointly owned' goods to be taken into control.

[ploddertom]

If you are going to argue this then move to another thread, none of this has much help for the OP, again we are so far off topic. Stick to the matter in hand please.

[citizenB]

The thread is going off topic and we are in danger of getting told off by the moderators as they do really do like discussions to take place on the proper section of the forum. I have written a number of times about this subject on the forum in the past and provided relevant legislation (some of which seems to copied elsewhere). That legislation has been updated and as mentioned, I will provide a copy of the article shortly.

 

The Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 is not appropriate.

 

Correct.... so all posts from MM post 11 dated 12th December are going to be taken off and put into their own thread

 

which can be found in the link below.

 

Discussion thread

Edited December 15, 2015 by citizenB

[paulie100]

Hello, didn't realise this post had moved along ...anyway, have not heard from the EA for a few weeks, i asked the council if i could pay them direct and they said NO...i must pay the EA...so then would obviuosly have to pay their fees also...so what should i do...wait until it is sent back to the council or pay the EA and suck it?...thanks

[AndyOrch]

Hello, didn't realise this post had moved along ...anyway, have not heard from the EA for a few weeks, i asked the council if i could pay them direct and they said NO...i must pay the EA...so then would obviuosly have to pay their fees also...so what should i do...wait until it is sent back to the council or pay the EA and suck it?...thanks

 

Post moved to the correct thread.

[paulie100]

Hi,

 

 

I have had a HCEO visit a couple of times for council tax,

i have not let them in

 

 

the last time they came they said they would call the police,

I told them to do that and they backed down, showed them proof car outside was not mine.

 

Today they called when i was not in

 

 

left a letter saying that they would call at my place of work (i work in a shop) if i didn't answer.

 

Can they call at my work?

 

Thanks

[brassnecked]

How much is the debt?

 

Have you made an offer to the bailiff when he called and you showed him car wasn't yours? as with the visit they have moved from the Compliance Stage to Enforcement

 

Don't think they can call at your work, wouldn't be pleasant if they approached you as you were serving customers, as in a shop full of third parties who could overhear everything so bailiff would be breaching Data Protection.

 

If he did might be grounds for Formal Complaint to Council.

 

I think this should be on the Bailiff Forum, will ask site team to move it

 

.

[dx100uk]

wont be HCEO for ctax..

[paulie100]

Hi

I haven't made an offer yet, i did make an offer direct to the council but they would not accept it, told me to deal with the bailiff, it's for £900 + fees now. I was going to wait until it was sent back to the council?

Car, they have proof that it is not mine.

Work, i do not really want them calling as i am a retails shop assistant and it would be unpleasant.

Shall i inform the council they have threatened this.

Should i just make an offer to the bailiff?

thank you

[dx100uk]

phone the relevant council CO and complaint

 

 

they are responsible for what they do/say

 

 

dx

[paulie100]

yes, it's Excel civil enforcement

[brassnecked]

Deffo call council and tell them that the bailiff has written to you threatening to call at your work, keep that letter as evidence.

[Bailiff Advice]

Hi

I haven't made an offer yet, i did make an offer direct to the council but they would not accept it, told me to deal with the bailiff, it's for £900 + fees now. I was going to wait until it was sent back to the council?

 

Should i just make an offer to the bailiff?

 

thank you

 

The debt would have been with the council only a few weeks back. Did you make a payment proposal to the council at that time.

 

Before getting to the very last stage of a personal visit you should have received a Notice of Enforcement from Excel. A fee of £75 would have been added to the debt at that stage. A payment arrangement can be set up during what is called the 'Compliance stage'. This is the date given on the Notice of Enforcement. Did you contact Excel to make a payment proposal?

 

The debt has now increased by way of an enforcement fee of £235. In time, the debt may well be returned to the council but this will usually only be after about 3-4 months.

[paulie100]

Hi

I haven't made contact with Excel, should i do this and suck up the fees or wait until it is sent back to the council?

The council will not accept an offer directly while it is with Excel

Are they allowed to turn up at my work? even if they know there are no goods there.

[brassnecked]

Hi

I haven't made contact with Excel, should i do this and suck up the fees or wait until it is sent back to the council?

The council will not accept an offer directly while it is with Excel

Are they allowed to turn up at my work? even if they know there are no goods there.

 

the options are negotiate payment with Excel if they are unreasonable as in pushing for an unaffordable arrangement, Formal Complaint to Head of Revenues, CEO, and Elected Leader enclosing a copy of that letter threatening a workplace visit.

 

Or you tough it out and wait, but you will be on pins for months awaiting the knock. The upside is they cannot add any more fees UNLESS they get into your home and list goods on a Controlled Goods Order, and they remove them and add the £110 Sales Fee and other Storage fees. So don't let them in.

 

If they do fetch up at work call the police, but the police MAY side with the bailiff as they are often clueless as to what bailiffs powers really are

[paulie100]

OK, thank you for all the advice, best to make an arrangement with them i think, although i hate to bow to bailiffs!!....and he was a particularly cocky one as well!!....i will write to the council first though.