Xercise4less / Harlands ..Again :)

[5tunt]

I can see there's a whole bunch of posts here relating to Harlands and i can sort of guess the response but assumptions are never good..

 

I had a contract with Xercise4less which i full paid from 22/08/2014 till my last payment which was 21 Oct 15. Over the 11 months.

 

I cancelled my membership by cancelling the Direct Debit, thinking that since it's in a rolling month contract...no payment should be sufficient cancellation notice.

 

I've now received 2 letters from harlands, with the most recent letter stating i owe further Administration fees totaling the entire money owed to £69.98.

 

Should i just be emailing Harlands head office explaining that i'd be willing to pay 0.00-9.99 that may have been missing due to the timing of the DD cancellation, the DD cancellation is sufficient cancellation notice and that any subsequent administration penalties are are unlawful.

 

Any help appreciated

[slick132]

Hi Stunt and welcome to CAG

 

I suggest you write to Harlands by post and get a free Certificate of Posting from the PO. See here for a letter to adapt and send to Harlands - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?458014-Harlands-Problem&p=4842737&viewfull=1#post4842737

 

Don't go into detail about adequate notice of cancelling for now - it's completely wasted on Harlands who only hear what they want to hear.

 

Avoid emails to them as this will see them fire back a reply quickly and you could end up with email ping-pong that'll get you nowhere.

 

Stay OFF the phone and, if Harlands/CRS call you, hang up !!

 

Keep us posted on any contact from them.

 

[5tunt]

Hi Stunt and welcome to CAG

 

I suggest you write to Harlands by post and get a free Certificate of Posting from the PO. See here for a letter to adapt and send to Harlands -

 

Don't go into detail about adequate notice of cancelling for now - it's completely wasted on Harlands who only hear what they want to hear.

 

Avoid emails to them as this will see them fire back a reply quickly and you could end up with email ping-pong that'll get you nowhere.

 

Stay OFF the phone and, if Harlands/CRS call you, hang up !!

 

Keep us posted on any contact from them.

 

 

Cheers Slick will update you when i hear anything more

[5tunt]

Hey Slick, wee update!

 

I've sent the letter to Harlands but not received any response - I've now received a letter from CRC Outlinning the following:

 

We have been advised by Harlands, that you have stopped making payments under your membership agreement with Xercise 4 Less

 

Your balance of £104.97 is now due to be paid in full, by no later than 5 February 16.

 

The harlands Telephone lines are open....etc...

 

Harlands would like to resolve this matter before further action is needed. However under your agreement with Harlands, you have promised to pay this debt. If you continue to honour that commitment. Harlands will have no option but to take legal steps to collect the outstanding balance.

 

How should i proceed here?

[slick132]

Hi Stunt,

 

I assume you mean you've heard from CRS, who are Harlands in disguise !!

 

Ignore this completely and wait for them to reply properly to the letter which you were going to send, as per post #3 above.

 

Can you just confirm for us that you did, in fact, send the letter to Harlands.

 

[5tunt]

Cheers Slick And yeah, sorry...CRS Credit Resolution Services!

 

I did indeed and i have the receipt - Was sent 19/01/2016

[5tunt]

So i've received a response to the letter i sent.

 

In a nutshell they are saying they are willing to wave the administration fees, however they inside i owe 4 weeks payments (from when i cancelled).

 

They are also saying that i need to contact Xercise4less to actually cancel the membership. I've seen from other threads that this is not the case.

 

Any advice here? Would you like any more precise info from the letter?

[slick132]

Hi Stunt,

 

....... however they inside i owe 4 weeks payments (from when i cancelled)

 

Do you mean 4 weeks or 4 months ?

 

Let us know exactly what Harlands say about what they think you owe.

 

Don't worry about Harlands view that you can only cancel via the gym - they're wrong !!

 

[5tunt]

Hi Stunt,

 

 

 

Do you mean 4 weeks or 4 months ?

 

Let us know exactly what Harlands say about what they think you owe.

 

Don't worry about Harlands view that you can only cancel via the gym - they're wrong !!

 

 

Ah apologies - 4 months!

 

I'll update with more exact details from the letter later tonight, cheers Slick

[slick132]

Ah, so Harlands have decided the m/ship is still "live" because you haven't gone into the gym and filled in the X4Less Cancellation Form. Total nonsense though !!

 

As Harlands have ignored what you said in your letter, just ignore them completely for now.

 

I'd now write to the gym Head Office in Leeds saying :-

 

I offered to pay Harlands the month's fee I owed when I cancelled my DD mandate after the October 2014 was paid.

 

They are now demanding 4 months fee and say the membership is still "live".

 

Unless you tell Harlands to stop contacting me immediately, I will make formal complaints about the gym and Harlands to Trading Standards and The CMA.

 

I'll also use Facebook and Twitter to make sure people know how badly Harlands treat gym members on behalf of Xercise4Less.

 

Get a free Certificate of Posting at the PO when you send this.

 

[5tunt]

Cheers Slick will get on it asap

[5tunt]

Received an interesting response from Xercise4less:

 

 

This email is in regards the letter we have received from yourself regarding your membership.

 

Unfortunately as your account went into Default on 28/10/15 and you have used your access code to use our facilities on 09/01/2016 and again on 11/01/2016, you will have to contact Membership Support on 0113 203 8602 to arrange a settlement to close the account.

 

If you do choose to escalate this matter further, we will of course co-operate with the agency you choose to represent you. However, as you have breached the Terms and Conditions by cancelling your Direct Debit with Harlands and then using our facilities without having paid for the service, we feel that it would be improper to '... use Facebook and Twitter to make sure people know how badly Harlands treat gym members on behalf of Xercise4Less' as this is a threat of slander and you cannot use such means to intimidate us to 'tell' Harlands to stop contacting you.

 

 

I haven't actually used their facility AT ALL and this must be a bit of a glitch in their system or they've already re-issued my code.

 

Should i just respond to this email with that detail or should i approach this differently?

[slick132]

Hi Stunt,

 

Can you confirm when you last used the gym, so we can decide how best to respond to X4Less.

 

Is there any chance you accessed the gym after cancelling the DD mandate ?

 

[5tunt]

Hi Stunt,

 

Can you confirm when you last used the gym, so we can decide how best to respond to X4Less.

 

Is there any chance you accessed the gym after cancelling the DD mandate ?

 

 

Hey Slick,

 

The last usage would have been within a month of the cancellation, so around the September / Early October time 2015. My work moved offices so it was no longer convenient for me to access the gym. I'd have to really go out of the way to get to the gym itself.

 

Interestingly i've noticed that one of the days they claim i've been to the gym is the same date as i made my original post on this thread. If only i had that much of a brass neck!

 

Their claim i've attended the gym is absolute nonsense and could potentially highlight bad-practise on their end by either re-issuing my code, having inadequate code length (Someone accidently entered mine) or just blatent lies!

[slick132]

I refer to your letter of xxdate.

 

You allege that I accessed the gym as recently as January 2016. This is wrong and you need to check your records as any such access was not made by me.

 

Kindly check your records and confirm that I did not access the gym at all. If you continue to make demands based on inaccurate data, I will take the matter further with formal complaints as necessary.

 

[5tunt]

I refer to your letter of xxdate.

 

You allege that I accessed the gym as recently as January 2016. This is wrong and you need to check your records as any such access was not made by me.

 

Kindly check your records and confirm that I did not access the gym at all. If you continue to make demands based on inaccurate data, I will take the matter further with formal complaints as necessary.

 

 

 

Cheers Slick, will keep you informed

[5tunt]

Quicker response now we're in email :

 

I have again checked our records and attached a screenshot of your entry code being used at the Renfrew gym in January 2016.

 

I have made no demands at all. I was simply advising you of an option to settle the matter as your account is currently in Default, due to breaching the Terms and Conditions by cancelling your Direct Debit without giving us 30 days notice, a fact you are aware of already. Furthermore I am obligated to advise that a settlement with our Membership Support Team would be a cheaper alternative to Harlands due to the difference in admin costs.

 

Again, if you do choose to escalate this matter further, we will of course co-operate with the agency you choose to represent you. However, this will be the last contact from us at Head Office regarding the matter if that is the case as we have exhausted all avenues for a resolution with ourselves.

 

They attached a screenshot of two entry times which are false with regards to whether i entered or not, and are also times which they'll clearly see i never accessed the gym on these times previously so it's a good highlight of something wrong on their end - whether it's someone else using my code or they've just re-issued it.

[slick132]

I refer to your email of xxdate and must say again, your information is wrong.

 

If your records show that I accessed the gym, I suggest someone else is using my old [access code/entry card].

 

The times you mention are NOT times of the day that I have previously attended the gym as you will see from your records.

 

Please check your records again and confirm that you are referring to someone else accessing the gym.

 

[5tunt]

I refer to your email of xxdate and must say again, your information is wrong.

 

If your records show that I accessed the gym, I suggest someone else is using my old [access code/entry card].

 

The times you mention are NOT times of the day that I have previously attended the gym as you will see from your records.

 

Please check your records again and confirm that you are referring to someone else accessing the gym.

 

 

Cheers Slick, they are really dragging this out eh!? Common sense must prevail at some point, surely!

[slick132]

One would think so, but don't hold your breath ...........

 

[5tunt]

One would think so, but don't hold your breath ...........

 

 

So we have another response!

 

Below are the time and dates your pin was used to access the facilities regularly and the occasions outside of the patterns.

 

From 01/09/14 to 25/11/14 your pin was used to access the facilities between 07:00 and 08:00

From 05/07/15 to 23/09/15 your pin was used to access the facilities between 11:00 and 13:00.

 

On 30/04/15 your pin was used to access the facilities at 17:15

On 02/06/15 your pin was used to access the facilities at 13:28

On 09/01/16 your pin was used to access the facilities at 18:50

On 11/01/16 your pin was used to access the facilities at 07:44

 

As your unique access pin code is 8 digits long, and the most similar code only matches 5 of the 8 digits, unless you shared your code it is highly unlikely that someone used your code accidentally.

 

As we cannot check records of CCTV here at Head Office you will have to arrange a meeting with the General Manager to discuss this matter.

 

Dragging on a bit this now! So the two days they alleged i attended the gym:

 

09/01/16 18:50 - A completely non-standard time we they've shown with their data. And i'd have had to have posted this thread in the afternoon then brass necked into the gym the same night!

11/01/16 - I was working, started work at around 8AM. It seems unlikely i could attend the gym at 07:44 and attend the and arrive at the office at 8AM considering my office is across the other side of the city. (The reason i stopped going is due to me moving offices from 4 miles to about 10-15 miles from the gym!

 

Should i just head round to the gym and see if i can get the CCTV to put this to bed? I really grudge spending any of my own money communicating with these people. I'd argue that THEY should speak with the branch manager to get the CCTV footage.

[slick132]

Reply could be as follows :-

 

I refer to your email of xxdate.

 

I can prove beyond doubt that I did not access the gym on the dates you have specified.

 

I therefore suggest you use CCTV to show that I accessed the facility, or you make no further demands of me.

 

If you make any further demands, I will make formal complaints to Trading Standards and The CMA.

 

See what they say in response ............

 

[5tunt]

Reply could be as follows :-

 

I refer to your email of xxdate.

 

I can prove beyond doubt that I did not access the gym on the dates you have specified.

 

I therefore suggest you use CCTV to show that I accessed the facility, or you make no further demands of me.

 

If you make any further demands, I will make formal complaints to Trading Standards and The CMA.

 

See what they say in response ............

 

 

Cheers Slick, will get the reply out!

[5tunt]

Next letter arrived - this time from CRS (Credit Resolution Services)

 

We've been employed by xercise 4 less as your membership remains in arrears despite previous letters being sent to you.

 

As a result of this, our fees totaling £66.50 have been added. Therefore, your account balance now stands at £171.47.

 

+++All your standard "we want to reach an amicable resolution, here's the options...call us...etc"+++

[slick132]

Hi Stunt,

 

Ignore anything from Harlands/CRS for now but keep us posted ..........