Carter/Lowell - Lloyds Bank Overdraft

[dj0nes]

Hi All,

 

I've had Lowell and Carter lodge a claim for £1,450 against me for an unpaid overdraft on behalf of Lloyds TSB in November.

 

I acknowledged the claim online and later then submitted a defense to the tune of I do not recognise I owe this debt and that I am unable to defend myself unless proof of the debt is disclosed and that it is the claimants obligation to provided the defendant proof.

 

The defense was accepted by the court and a DX was sent out to which I returned and opted yes to meditation and to allocate to my local county court.

 

In the meantime I emailed Lowell and Carter about the fact they still have not provided any evidence that this debt even exists and that I am unwilling to enter any discussions or meditation until this is produced.

 

A couple of days ago they e-mailed me back with this

 

-------------------------------

 

Thank you for your email.

 

We are seeking our client’s further instructions regarding your request for evidence however it is our understanding that it is the policy of the Original Creditor to provide its customers with agreements at the point of contract and statements throughout the duration of the account; consequently, you have previously been provided with validation of the debt and you are referred to your own records for the same.

 

We trust this clarifies matters.

 

Yours sincerely

 

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This got my back up obviously as from my interpretation of this e-mail is it is up to me to seek this out myself so I e-mailed them back the below copying in the court e-mail with my claim number

 

-------------------------------

 

Thank you for your response,

 

I would like to remind you that it is not the original creditor trying to obtain a judgement against me through the small claims court. Are you telling me Is it your policy to take on instructions from your clients for commencement of legal proceedings without sight of any proof that the alleged debt is actually owed then?

 

If I have been supplied with validation of the debt (To which I do not recall) Then I am sure that you will be able to speak to your client who sent this originally and reproduce this without a problem then proving to me and the court that this debt in fact exists as despite numerous requests I have yet to see it, and forgive me being the dubious person I am I fail to take your word for it that I have been 'provided with this before'.

 

This is not the remit of either myself or the alleged original creditor (Lloyds) this is the responsibility of Lowell/Bryan Carter to prove beyond all doubt that this debt exists if you think I will be bullied into thinking any other way you are very mistaken. I await your response.

 

I also trust this clarifies matters too.

 

-------------------------------

 

I maybe should have been a bit more professional but they just seem to think it's okay to bully people into paying debts they potentially do not owe.

Has anyone seen this before, do they have any proof on this debt? Surely they'd have this to hand if they did?

 

Thanks!

[AndyOrch]

Hi dj0nes

 

I assume the claim is currently stayed...or has it been allocated to your local county court yet?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[dj0nes]

Good morning Andy,

 

I only recently returned the DX nothing further has happened since.

 

Many thanks

[AndyOrch]

Excellent ...well the above is a standard template response to all defended claims...if you take a read of other similar threads from the same claimant/solicitor..you will see its the usual course.

 

Reading your post I gather that you have completed and filed the DQ N180 (directions questionnaire) so now you do nothing..do not approach the claimant...and wait until you recieve a Notice of Allocation.

 

This will direct on how the claim is to proceed...transfer it to your local county court...and most importantly give you and the claimant directions on what and when you must do next before it gets to trial.

[dj0nes]

Thank you Andy,

One thing I'm not entirely sure on is if Carter does manage to get hold of the original paperwork for the account (Apparently it is not being handled by Lowell now it is handled by Fredriksons despite Lowell being named the claimant on the court papers) is there a chance they can just produce that to the court and my defense is for lack of better words nullified and they win by default or would they still have to follow the process through the track and local court hearing?

 

Thanks for your help.

[AndyOrch]

Fredriksons/Carter are one and the same ...if they do comply with disclosure and what they provide is legit...then you can always negotiate a settlement pre trial

[dj0nes]

Hi All,

 

The plot thickens I've just received an email from the courts asking me to confirm four questions to see if my case is suitable for mediation, one of the questions it asks me to say yes to is below..

 

 

I can confirm that I have enough information about the claim to allow me to enter into negotiations and that I do not require any further evidence from the other party before the appointment

 

 

Through no fault of my own I cannot say yes to this and now because of that I can no longer participate in mediation putting me at a disadvantage.

 

Is there any rules on this as surely even if Lowell or whoever produces this paperwork which I've been told exists it puts me at a disadvantage as because of their incompetence or delaying tactics I missed out on the chance of mediation.

 

Cheers

[Old Cogger]

if you do not have the information then the answer is NO

[Old Cogger]

mediation will not go ahead without the said documentation, therefore would be referred back to court as no mediation possible due to one or more parties failure to disclose?

[AndyOrch]

Hi All,

 

The plot thickens I've just received an email from the courts asking me to confirm four questions to see if my case is suitable for mediation, one of the questions it asks me to say yes to is below..

 

 

I can confirm that I have enough information about the claim to allow me to enter into negotiations and that I do not require any further evidence from the other party before the appointment

 

 

Through no fault of my own I cannot say yes to this and now because of that I can no longer participate in mediation putting me at a disadvantage.

 

Is there any rules on this as surely even if Lowell or whoever produces this paperwork which I've been told exists it puts me at a disadvantage as because of their incompetence or delaying tactics I missed out on the chance of mediation.

 

Cheers

 

But paperwork aside....surely you do have enough knowledge to consider the debt and any possibility of mediation...you must have a rough idea of the balance and what may be unfair charges etc ?

 

As this is a current account overdraft there will be very little to disclose that you cant get yourself...dont use none disclosure as a reason to not participate.

 

Andy

[dj0nes]

Hi Both,

 

Thank you so much for your replies.

 

Andy, I totally hear what you are saying and I don't profess to have any experience or education around the county courts hence why I come here so please don't let this sound like I'm questioning you at all I'm just curious to know but my uneducated concern is should it be my responsibility to even entertain what they have to say before they've even proved the debt is legit?

 

I recall having a Lloyds account back in 2009 (ish) but I don't recall there being any monies owed on it.

 

I'm probably being really naive here but surely before court papers are even thought out being served Mr Claimant should have his house in order it's like me filing a claim against some random picked out the yellow pages saying Joe Bloggs owes me £1500.

 

Where is the defendant protection in all of this or do Carter just hope to win by defendants not acknowledging the claim in the set time limits?

 

Sorry for the rant I just fail to grasp it and on the flip side this probably could be solved by me trying to speak to Lloyds etc. I just feel shouldn't the onus be on the claimant?

 

Edit:

 

Plus looking at this from a different but still sceptical point of view say for example I ticked yes I can participate, in turn also confirming in writing that I do indeed have enough evidence. If it then it goes through mediation and ultimately reaches the court for a hearing and I say sorry Judge I still don't have the necessary proof requested, surely the court could then just refer me to the mediation form I ticked declaring I've enough information to make a decision about the clam?

 

Cheers

Edited January 7, 2016 by dj0nes

[AndyOrch]

Not taken that way at all and you are not the first to be able to grasp the process that by doing one thing how it effects the outcome of another.

 

The courts expect all parties to participate in ADR (mediation) as its now a directive of the EU..so the courts must follow and welcome it to our justice system.

 

 

However.....since this was introduced...mediation have introduced the above vetting process to weed out the parties that mediation is pointless and therefore reduce their work load.

 

So back to this questionnaire....." Do you have enough information about the claim to allow you to enter into negotiations and that I do not require any further evidence from the other party before the appointment "

 

Well our Judicial process does not quite fit that system as disclosure follows the defence and mediation...so no party is liable to disclose anything at this stage.Therefore in cases such as yours it does not fit the criteria.Mediation on small claims track civil claim will fit very few claims...but hey ho we have to run with it.

 

Now any party that fails to comply with mediation can suffer consequences when the question of costs arise...not a big deal to the defendant as costs are restricted in SCT...but to the claimant it can be important..should the claim get complicated and the trial requires further applications.

 

So back to mediation...there is nothing to stop you saying yes I can participate...I have a vague recollection of the debt...and use the mediation appointment to your advantage to highlight the shortfalls of the claimants claim and points you would like clarifying...that is assuming the Claimant agrees to mediation...buts thats not your problem ...you have...boxed ticked.