@vodafoneuk Is this fraud? What the heck is going on!?

[silverfox1961]

You could contact them by phone but record the call. If you do so and you reach an agreement, this must be followed up in writing confirming what has been agreed. This is good practice as the courts will see that you are attempting to alleviate the need to involve the courts further.

 

If they say anything that you are unsure about, don't agree to that part until you have had advice. Vodafone will want to limit the damage and try to get you to accept what they want. Don't fall for it.

Have an idea of what the lowest you will go to settle but don't let them know it and certainly don't post your thoughts here as no doubt VF read these threads.

 

If you can't agree between you, the courts will offer mediation where a third party will speak to each party separately and relay the info back and forth.

 

Vodafone will likely know that the chance of losing a case is high and will want to settle, even up to the date of a hearing. What I would ask is that you do not agree to any confidentiality agreement.

[fkofilee]

That number is the customer relations team (executive)... Be careful

[Caligulazbaby]

You could contact them by phone but record the call. If you do so and you reach an agreement, this must be followed up in writing confirming what has been agreed. This is good practice as the courts will see that you are attempting to alleviate the need to involve the courts further.

 

If they say anything that you are unsure about, don't agree to that part until you have had advice. Vodafone will want to limit the damage and try to get you to accept what they want. Don't fall for it.

Have an idea of what the lowest you will go to settle but don't let them know it and certainly don't post your thoughts here as no doubt VF read these threads.

 

If you can't agree between you, the courts will offer mediation where a third party will speak to each party separately and relay the info back and forth.

 

Vodafone will likely know that the chance of losing a case is high and will want to settle, even up to the date of a hearing. What I would ask is that you do not agree to any confidentiality agreement.

 

I have to be honest, I've no intention of negotiating about anything. I have sent my conditions and they will either accept those or defend themselves in court. I guess it only seems right I contact this number just to inform them of this?

 

 

That number is the customer relations team (executive)... Be careful

 

Will they try to trick me into something?

[silverfox1961]

Will they try to trick me into something?

 

Possibly. Chances are you will speak to a solicitor and they may use legalspeak to say one thing but mean another. They are not there to help you. all they want is for this to go away but on their terms which is why we say record them. If it did end up in court and they disputed what was said on the phone, you could ask their permission to play the recording and when they refuse, ask the judge.

[Caligulazbaby]

I decided the best course of action was to continue dialogue via e-mail etc so it's more easily recorded. This was my e-mail response,

 

Good evening Emma,

 

There is nothing to discuss regarding my Legal Claim that isn't already contained within the Legal Claim. I think both your company and myself would prefer this be settled without going to court so please make the cheque payable to "Mr Me" and send it to my address, "inserted address" Also I require evidence that you have reversed the edits you made to my credit rating. I would like to inform you that under no circumstances will I agree to a confidentiality agreement so don't ask and I will be in touch in future to discuss the questionable activities on my account that occurred December 2015 once I have spoken to the appropriate authorities.

 

Kind regards

 

-Me

 

They responded to this 3-4 days later with a letter sent to my Mum's address (?) via recorded delivery saying the exact same thing they said in the original e-mail. I'm guessing this is so they can go to court and say they attempted to reason with me out of court but I was non-responsive but....how many times can I repeat the same thing, right?

 

Anyhoo, they had 28 days from the issue of the claim plus 5 days grace presumably for potential mail delivery delays. This 33 day period ends 20th August and my MCOL account says nothing has changed so I'm guessing vodafone haven't contacted the court with their defence?

 

My main question is what do I do on the morning of the 21st August. I have received a response from vodafone but it hasn't led anywhere. Do I jump straight to requesting judgement on MCOL or is that jumping the gun. Do I have to arrange mediation or send more letters to people?

 

I guess their response was to block me requesting judgement based on the fact I've received no response and they can prove they did respond.....even though it was to the wrong address.....

[Caligulazbaby]

Vodafone filed a defence, a bar was put in place and it's been transferred to my local court. The internet says I'll be sent a questionnaire to fill out so I'll wait for that.

[silverfox1961]

Standard procedure so far.

 

can you provide what VF have said in their defence and where they differ from your claim

[Caligulazbaby]

Standard procedure so far.

 

can you provide what VF have said in their defence and where they differ from your claim

 

For sure I will let you know when I do, the claim was defended 18/08 so the paperwork hasn't arrive with me yet. For some reason the MCOL site wouldn't allow me anywhere near 1.080 characters, I wasn't even allowed to separate the paragraph into lines either so it was just one block of text ~600 characters long which meant my particulars were abbreviated to, "Vf didn't do as promised, I would like X amount of compensation".

[Caligulazbaby]

 

 

[Caligulazbaby]

This is everything from their defence letter.

 

#5 is annoying because I was unable to state my claims clearly because the MCOL site gave me almost no space to write anything. Bit of a con for £60. but yes #5 is what I am claiming for.

 

#7 relates directly to the issues raised in #5.

 

#6-14 is just them denying responsibility for anything.

 

#15 ridiculous counterclaim. I guess attack is the best form of defence.

 

#9 they quote condition 12a of my contract but conveniently leave out the following which is directly below, "any loss or damage.......agreement with you"

 

"We will not be legally responsible to you if we cannot provide the services because of something outside of our reasonable control."

 

I do believe the non-provision of a sim card is within their control which, by very definition of their terms, leaves them legally responsible to me?

[fkofilee]

Do you have a scanner / printer? I cant read half of it

 

Remind me, did fraudsters get your SIM Card? Or am i confusing this.

[AndyOrch]

Account number still showing....with regards to your particulars and their point 7 you should have served separate indepth particulars.

 

Andy

[Caligulazbaby]

Do you have a scanner / printer? I cant read half of it

 

Remind me, did fraudsters get your SIM Card? Or am i confusing this.

 

Sorry I had to take the photo on my phone and e-mail it to myself. I will try and take better photos.

 

I think fraudsters working at vodafone gained access to my account and used a new sim card (under a different number) to run up the bill. I ordered the SAR but it only showed what happened, not who was responsible. This claim is about them not providing me with a service, I wasn't told what to do with the fraudulent stuff.

[Caligulazbaby]

Account number still showing....with regards to your particulars and their point 7 you should have served separate indepth particulars.

 

Andy

 

Thanks I'll delete that. The MCOL site didn't give an option to serve particulars separately. I had 1,080 characters which ended up being more like 600 to include everything.

[Caligulazbaby]

Also, with vodafone's counter claim is this now when I send all my evidence? Like receipts and proof they didn't provide the SAR etc and e-mail correspondence. Or do I just say I defend the claim and wait until court to disclose my evidence?

[AndyOrch]

Thanks I'll delete that. The MCOL site didn't give an option to serve particulars separately. I had 1,080 characters which ended up being more like 600 to include everything.

 

Step 5) Claim Particulars

 

This is your opportunity to explain what money is owed to you and why. You will need to

provide a statement, called the particulars of claim (POC), explaining what you are claiming

for. You will also need to state the amount you are claiming.

The POC are restricted to 24 lines of 45 characters and a total of 1080 characters. If you type

more than this the last part of your text will not appear on the claim. Please be aware that the

website will only accept the following punctuation; full stop, comma, pound signs.

If you do not have enough space to explain your claim online and you need to serve extra,

more detailed particulars on the defendant, please tick the box that appears after the

statement ‘you may also send detailed particulars direct to the defendant’. Please be aware

this will then reduce the amount of space left in the main particulars box by three lines. This is

because a statement is automatically added explaining you will be serving further particulars.

You will be able to see the extra information added in the next screen “Summary”. For more

information please see the ‘Serving additional Particulars of Claim’ section. If you have

enough space to explain your claim online do not tick this box.

 

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part07/pd_part07e

[Caligulazbaby]

Step 5) Claim Particulars

 

This is your opportunity to explain what money is owed to you and why. You will need to

provide a statement, called the particulars of claim (POC), explaining what you are claiming

for. You will also need to state the amount you are claiming.

The POC are restricted to 24 lines of 45 characters and a total of 1080 characters. If you type

more than this the last part of your text will not appear on the claim. Please be aware that the

website will only accept the following punctuation; full stop, comma, pound signs.

If you do not have enough space to explain your claim online and you need to serve extra,

more detailed particulars on the defendant, please tick the box that appears after the

statement ‘you may also send detailed particulars direct to the defendant’. Please be aware

this will then reduce the amount of space left in the main particulars box by three lines. This is

because a statement is automatically added explaining you will be serving further particulars.

You will be able to see the extra information added in the next screen “Summary”. For more

information please see the ‘Serving additional Particulars of Claim’ section. If you have

enough space to explain your claim online do not tick this box.

 

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part07/pd_part07e

 

 

What effect will serving vague particulars have for my claim?

[AndyOrch]

What effect will serving vague particulars have for my claim?

 

You get a defence in response like the one you have received challenging your claim (their point 7)...but not all is lost...you can particularise when you get to the your witness statement stage.Its just with you posting that you could not serve separate particulars on MCOL

 

" The MCOL site didn't give an option to serve particulars separately "

[Caligulazbaby]

You get a defence in response like the one you have received challenging your claim (their point 7)...but not all is lost...you can particularise when you get to the your witness statement stage.Its just with you posting that you could not serve separate particulars on MCOL

 

" The MCOL site didn't give an option to serve particulars separately "

 

Phew close call, I thought all was lost for a moment.

 

I'm a bit confused with what I have received. I have received counter claim stuff where I am the defendant. It includes a response pack identical to the one vf received when I made the original claim. Do I just sign that I am defending the entire claim an explain why in section 3 - Defence and send it away?

 

Then I have a directions questionnaire (small claims track). It has stuff about mediation and court availability, witnesses etc. I think it is Form N180 which I have to complete and file with the court office. Do I complete it, take it to my local magistrates and hand in person or do I send it away. It also says I have to serve copies on all other parties. Do I do that myself to vodafone or does the court handle that.

 

I also received an identical defence list from Riverview Law who say they are acting on behalf of vodafone. Does that mean I am dealing with them from now on? So I send them all the paperwork?

[Caligulazbaby]

Actually to save you guys time I will go see the CAB and call my local court tomorrow.

[AndyOrch]

Because the defendant has made a counter claim (part20) you are now also the defendant of the part 20 claimant...so you have to respond and defend the counter claim (you have a limited time to respond) Counterclaims against claimants

 

These are the most common part 20 claims but, as far as the CPR is concerned, they stand apart.The counterclaim is usually made at the same time as the defence is filed and runs on in the same document (practice direction 20, paragraph 6.1).

 

But whenever made, it attracts a prescribed court fee which is on the same sliding scale as the original claim.A counterclaim against a claimant is not served with a response pack.However, the consequence of not filing a defence within 14 days is judgment in default (rule 20.3(3)).

 

The claimant cannot buy time to file a defence to the counterclaim by filing an acknowledgement of service as this procedure is not available.

 

 

You file and serve the N180 on the court and defendant by the dates stated.

 

Yes..... looks like you are now dealing with Riverview Law

[AndyOrch]

Actually to save you guys time I will go see the CAB and call my local court tomorrow.

 

By all means but I dont think the CAB will be able to advise about part20 claimants.

[Caligulazbaby]

By all means but I dont think the CAB will be able to advise about part20 claimants.

 

You are 100% correct, I did have a 10 minute conversation with an advisor where they directed me to a helpful part of their website regarding small claims court but they were apprehensive about offering much advice. I went to my local court and spoke to someone there, she told me the entire claim comes under one reference number so I fill out all the forms etc and just hand everything to them which is pretty convenient.

 

Andy you said I could particularise when I get to the witness statement stage. When is the witness statement stage? Is it on a later form I will need to fill out or is it something that happens in court.

[AndyOrch]

Yes...it comes after allocation...part of the directions

[Caligulazbaby]

I received a letter from the courts today so I think we're coming to the end of the road.

 

The claim has been allocated to the small claims track which will take place Nov 30th.

 

It says a hearing fee of £80 is payable by 16th Sept unless the claimant makes an application for a fee concession. Would I be entitled to a fee concession?

 

It says each party shall deliver to every other party and to the court office copies of all documents which he intends to rely at the hearing.....What do I need to include in this? Would this be my original vodafone contract, the e-mails printed off, the receipts for the stuff I sent by recorded delivery, my SAR folder including correspondence with vodafone that was omitted from the SAR. Do I send literally everything I have saved and filed now?

 

It also says the CLAIMANT must send to the court....or the DEFENDANT must send to the court....Do I need to send as both claimant and defendant given I was counter-claimed against? Or is it the same as before where I just send everything in 1 jobs lot as it is the same case regardless of position.