@vodafoneuk Is this fraud? What the heck is going on!?

[Caligulazbaby]

I started an 18 month contract with vodafone about 12 months ago.

I lost my phone and asked for a replacement sim card twice (via online live chat) and was sent nothing.

 

 

For months now I have been charged for this contract even though I haven't been sent a sim card to use the number I'm suppose to be paying for!

 

 

Absolutely nobody from vodafone will speak to me via any support channels and still, every month, without fail, I am being charged for my contract!

 

Now listen to this part.

I receive 2 e-mails from vodafone a few weeks ago saying the barr on calls abroad and calls to premium rate numbers have been lifted.

For 6 months my monthly bill increased, on December 3rd it was £188. January 3rd (since the foreign calls being lifted) it is now £366.

 

Surely this is some sort of fraud right?

Some sort of criminal activity is going on here????

 

 

I've even tried calling my number and it doesn't exist,

I am unable to log into my vodafone account either lol.

 

I'm a logical guy and can only come to a single conclusion but I would happily be corrected if another explaination comes to light.

It would appear one or both of these live chat employees have hijacked my account.

 

 

They have sent a replacement sim card under a different phone number to one of their friends

and because they are vodafone employees they will have been able to access my account

to lift these 2 account barrs for calls abroad and premium rate numbers which they have spent December abusing.

 

This is the only logical thing I can think of which explains the series of events that have unfolded over the past 6 months

and I'm pretty sure this is fraud and cyber crime.

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?213340-Vodafone-Webteam-for-Customers-With-Problems-**UPDATED-APRIL-2015-**

 

Follow the instructions in the link above - when you receive your Vodafone reference number by email, please post it here in your thread, then Lee, the CAG Vodafone Rep will look in on you .

[Caligulazbaby]

Hello CitizenB thank you for the advice.

 

My reference number is #12279102.

[fkofilee]

HI @Caligulazbaby

 

As you have followed the guide above, I would suggest waiting for 3 - 5 days for contact from Lee or Jen

 

Should you hear nothing from them or it not work, email;

 

[email protected] - UK MD Vodafone

[email protected] - UK Customer Service Director

[email protected] - Group CEO

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

 

The directors office are open 8 - 8 all days They pick it up relatively quickly.

[Caligulazbaby]

HI @Caligulazbaby

 

As you have followed the guide above, I would suggest waiting for 3 - 5 days for contact from Lee or Jen

 

Should you hear nothing from them or it not work, email;

 

 

 

The directors office are open 8 - 8 all days They pick it up relatively quickly.

 

Thank you fkofilee, as expected it's been 5 days and no reply from anyone, I had even sent an email to their "support" team. I've been through some of the other threads in this forum and it seems fairly evident that vodafone are truely awful lol. I will email all of those address you gave me and wait a week for no reply. What's the next step? Watchdog? (is Watchdog still running?) Trading standards?

[king12345]

Chargeback or direct debit guarantee.

No service provided=no bill to pay

[Caligulazbaby]

Hi guys just thought I'd offer an update. I received this reply from vodafone a week or so ago,

 

Hi Michael,

I've checked your account and can see that you reported the loss of phone on 13 August.

Our records also show that you contacted us again on 17 August to find out when your replacement SIM would be delivered. However, the order was cancelled due to a system issue.

As you cancelled your Direct Debit on 26 August, your account balance has remained unpaid and due to this your service was cancelled on 30 December.

As your minimum commitment is up to 1 September 2016, your final bill includes an early exit fee of £225.97 (VAT Exempt). This equates to remaining monthly line rental between 30 December 2015 and 1 September 2016.

Please be aware that we haven't billed any usage charges since you reported your phone missing to us.

If you'd like to arrange for your account to be reconnected, payment of £162.83 (inc. VAT) is required by 29 March 2016.

However, if you'd prefer to leave the account cancelled, payment of £388.80 (inc. VAT) would be required to settle the final balance.

To make payment, please call us on 03333 040 191 and quote your account number 690208037.

Kind regards,

Lee

Social Media Comms

Vodafone Limited

Vodafone HQ, The Connection, Newbury, Berkshire, RG14 2FN

Registered in England No 1471587

 

So yes they basically admitted making a massive mistake which left me with no service....but then made demands for money lol. Also, as you can see, there was absolutely no information about the criminal activity or fraud that had clearly taken place.

 

Me being unable to log into my online vodafone account?

My contract number not being recognised any longer?

Vodafone employees lifting restrictions on foreign calls and premium rate numbers after 4-5 months of bills not being paid on the account?

Quite clearly "my" new vodafone SIM card, under "my" new number being sent to someone who wasn't me?

 

Thank you for clearing these matters up Lee.

 

Kind regards buddy, kind regards indeed.

[fkofilee]

Hi Caligulazbaby

 

Have you potentially thought about sending a SAR request to Vodafone? Might be good for information.

[king12345]

Send them a final letter with all the evidence you have and let them know that any further claim will be robustly defended and all associated costs invoiced to them.

Then have a bit of a laugh if they ever decide to take you to court.

It's very straight forward and from their letter I gain the following:

13/08 you reported the phone lost and ordered a new sim

17/08 you contacted them again because you didn't receive the sim and they admit that a system issue was the reason

26/08 You rightly got fed up of waiting for a sim card and cancelled the direct debit

 

What do they expect???

That you keep on paying for something you don't have?

So glad I left Vodafone 10 years ago

[fkofilee]

I think it will be argued that the OP could have attended store to get a replacement SIM. But as mentioned. Get a SAR request from Vodafone.

 

See what they have, then compare it to your own notes... See what doesn't tally up...

[king12345]

I think it will be argued that the OP could have attended store to get a replacement SIM. But as mentioned. Get a SAR request from Vodafone.

 

See what they have, then compare it to your own notes... See what doesn't tally up...

 

I disagree.

Vodafone agreed to send the sim card and they didn't.

The op doesn't need to go out of his way to receive a service he's paid for.

IMO he was right to cancel the direct debit after 9 days, sounds very reasonable to me.

If I ordered Tesco shopping to be delivered and they don't deliver it, would I be expected to go to a store and pick the shopping?

[fkofilee]

I disagree.

Vodafone agreed to send the sim card and they didn't.

The op doesn't need to go out of his way to receive a service he's paid for.

IMO he was right to cancel the direct debit after 9 days, sounds very reasonable to me.

If I ordered Tesco shopping to be delivered and they don't deliver it, would I be expected to go to a store and pick the shopping?

 

Nope not the case at all, but my concern is that Vodafone would counter it with that.

 

As mentioned to the OP... Get that SAR ready... It's going to be a firefight

[citizenB]

You should keep an eye on your credit file. Vodafone appear very quick to trash credit records.

[BankFodder]

Well I think that this is really shocking treatment by Vodafone.

 

It is even more shocking the fact that you have come onto this forum where we apparently have a Vodafone presence which is meant to provide some special and direct help to people and yet it seems that firstly you have been ignored and then eventually there is a response that seems to be pretty well just scripted and doesn't actually provide any answers to any of the problems that you have suffered – even though Vodafone made at least one admission that there was a system issue.

 

I'm sorry that you've only just found your way here. I don't really understand why you put up with it for so long.

 

I'm also sorry that we have referred you to Vodafone by means of a link.

 

I can tell you that we are currently having a discussion with Vodafone about quite what the hell they think they are doing here – if anything.

 

I think that we would like to try and help you directly. I'd be very grateful if you could send us an email to our admin email address with your contact details – especially telephone number is maybe we can have a chat with you.

 

Also, I suggest that you send off an SAR immediately – especially to find out exactly what information Lee has been basing his most unhelpful response upon – in addition to all the other information they hold on you about your account.

 

Although you don't need to complete any formalities other than sending a valid SAR request and a £10 fee, I understand that Vodafone routinely act unlawfully by requiring you to complete some special form in order to get the information that you are entitled to by law.

 

For the sake of rapidity, I suggest that you go along with it. They may well be some kind of special form on the website – or maybe somebody else will come to this thread and tell you where to find it so that you can avoid that little obstacle that Vodafone will place in your way.

 

Please send of the SAR immediately and we will help you claim the £10 back from Vodafone along with anything else that you are entitled to because clearly Vodafone are at fault here – as they so often are.

 

You have also received advice to check your credit file. You must do this. Vodafone routinely trashed people's credit files even though it is Vodafone at fault. Keep a regular eye on your credit file and let us know if Vodafone have done anything about it.

 

We will help you deal with this as well.

 

When they see this thread, Vodafone may decide to try and reach out to to prevent this matter escalating out of their control. I suggest you keep us very closely informed as to what happens and discuss the matter every step of the way before you accept anything or make any commitment to Vodafone.

[citizenB]

Bankfodder, it would appear that a company CANNOT require you to complete a special form.

 

 

The following from the Q & A's on the Information Commissioner's website regarding DSARs.

 

 

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/principle-6-rights/subject-access-request/

 

 

Can I require individuals to use a specially designed form when making subject access requests?

 

No. Many organisations produce subject access request forms, and you may invite individuals to use such a form as long as you make it clear that this is not compulsory and you do not try to use this as a way of extending the 40-day time limit for responding. Standard forms can make it easier for you to recognise a subject access request and make it easier for the individual to include all the details you might need to locate the information they want.

 

However, any request in writing must be considered as a valid request, whatever the format.

 

I imagine as long as the request is properly identified/headed "Data Subject Access Request", then it shouldnt be too difficult for even the most stupidest of people to understand what is required ! Edited February 4, 2016 by citizenB

[fkofilee]

Yes they cannot enforce the use of their specific form.

Lake mentioned earlier and in BF post... You should send that SAR ASAP

[silverfox1961]

Vodafone have some template documents which may help for general SAR requests.

 

Guidance

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0ahUKEwiljefC5d3KAhXFWRQKHVUjCvoQFgg-MAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vodafone.co.uk%2Fcs%2Fgroups%2Fconfigfiles%2Fdocuments%2Fcontentdocuments%2Fvftst042750.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEHZpTbLGZQ3mdeB8wxF-6_gelBOQ&cad=rja

 

General SAR

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwiljefC5d3KAhXFWRQKHVUjCvoQFgg0MAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vodafone.co.uk%2Fcs%2Fgroups%2Fpublic%2Fdocuments%2Fwebcontent%2Fvf052779.pdf&usg=AFQjCNG8DNAmFm-wmlsr0tyM2OrwubGQIg&cad=rja

 

Alternative

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwiljefC5d3KAhXFWRQKHVUjCvoQFgg5MAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vodafone.co.uk%2Fcs%2Fgroups%2Fpublic%2Fdocuments%2Fwebcontent%2Fvftst031658.pdf&usg=AFQjCNF3QXOjurGrGbX5Rq5KGzA9zyOPBw&cad=rja

 

VF previously had a stance that you had to use their own forms. This has now changed. They now advise that you use their form to alleviate delay.

 

No, you can use the guidance pdf to ascertain what you need to send them in regards to ID but it has been known that where a customers signature has changed over time, this will cause delay so make sure that any proof of ID is from an official document.

 

As for getting copies of contracts, VF store these off site in such a way that they do not know exactly where in the building they are. I suspect they send them off site en masse in boxes with no identifying features. Consider yourself very lucky if you got a copy of the contract.

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Hi Caligulazbaby,

 

I'm sorry that you remain unhappy.

 

I've got your latest email and I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Social Media Operations

 

Vodafone UK

[Caligulazbaby]

Wow, thank you guys for all the responses. I didn't think much would come of this given it's one of those "big business v's the little guy" situations but it seems like I might be able to make a difference here.

 

It's very straight forward and from their letter I gain the following:

13/08 you reported the phone lost and ordered a new sim

17/08 you contacted them again because you didn't receive the sim and they admit that a system issue was the reason

26/08 You rightly got fed up of waiting for a sim card and cancelled the direct debit

 

Pretty much this yes except I requested another replacement sim card 17/08 after being told the first time was unsuccessful. Also I know Lee said it was 4 days between each contact with livechat but I'm almost 100% sure it was at least a week as I remember thinking, "If it takes them over a week to not send this SIM then I've just paid £10~ for nothing!" Anyhoo not sure the time between contacts is going to make any difference.

 

Vodafone have some template documents which may help for general SAR requests.

 

 

 

Thank you for the links silverfox, which of the 2 forms should I send off?

 

Well I think that this is really shocking treatment by Vodafone.

 

It is even more shocking the fact that you have come onto this forum where we apparently have a Vodafone presence which is meant to provide some special and direct help to people and yet it seems that firstly you have been ignored and then eventually there is a response that seems to be pretty well just scripted and doesn't actually provide any answers to any of the problems that you have suffered – even though Vodafone made at least one admission that there was a system issue.

 

I'm sorry that you've only just found your way here. I don't really understand why you put up with it for so long.

 

I'm also sorry that we have referred you to Vodafone by means of a link.

 

I can tell you that we are currently having a discussion with Vodafone about quite what the hell they think they are doing here – if anything.

 

I think that we would like to try and help you directly. I'd be very grateful if you could send us an email to our admin email address with your contact details – especially telephone number is maybe we can have a chat with you.

 

Also, I suggest that you send off an SAR immediately – especially to find out exactly what information Lee has been basing his most unhelpful response upon – in addition to all the other information they hold on you about your account.

 

Although you don't need to complete any formalities other than sending a valid SAR request and a £10 fee, I understand that Vodafone routinely act unlawfully by requiring you to complete some special form in order to get the information that you are entitled to by law.

 

For the sake of rapidity, I suggest that you go along with it. They may well be some kind of special form on the website – or maybe somebody else will come to this thread and tell you where to find it so that you can avoid that little obstacle that Vodafone will place in your way.

 

Please send of the SAR immediately and we will help you claim the £10 back from Vodafone along with anything else that you are entitled to because clearly Vodafone are at fault here – as they so often are.

 

You have also received advice to check your credit file. You must do this. Vodafone routinely trashed people's credit files even though it is Vodafone at fault. Keep a regular eye on your credit file and let us know if Vodafone have done anything about it.

 

We will help you deal with this as well.

 

When they see this thread, Vodafone may decide to try and reach out to to prevent this matter escalating out of their control. I suggest you keep us very closely informed as to what happens and discuss the matter every step of the way before you accept anything or make any commitment to Vodafone.

 

The last time I posted here there was a pop-up suggesting I complain to Wycliffe house, Cheshire along with a phone number which I ignored because basically in a big business v's the little guy battle a letter of complaint is going to get laughed at but with your incredibly helpful post and the others in this thread, along with the excellent advice I have no fear and will begin to puruse this.

 

Don't worry I've no interest in bargaining with vodafone, I don't need money and they can't really offer me anything else I'd be interested in other than what the heck happened to my account!! I really hope it's some massive criminal scandal, like organised crime and that I get to help smash it! lol

 

You should keep an eye on your credit file. Vodafone appear very quick to trash credit records.

 

Thank you for the heads up. Worry not, I'm pretty safe when it comes to credit ratings lol.

[silverfox1961]

Thank you for the heads up. Worry not, I'm pretty safe when it comes to credit ratings lol.

 

Please don't feel too confident. Vodafone have a nasty habit of filing defaults even when a complaint is ongoing which they shouldn't be doing. They also have the habit of sending a 'default' notice to your VF inbox which of course, is blocked due to non payment. They state they send letters but on many occasions, a poster has never received anything from them. Makes you think.

Check your credit file. Their are two free ones you can use. Noddle and Clearscore.

 

I provided the templates above as an example of what not to do. Their forms are not good enough.

 

As a mobile phone account is not covered by the CCA 1974, they have no obligation to supply a copy of any agreement so the only way to get one is via a SAR but VF say that they will not be able to supply this and refer you to the terms and conditions on their website but, how are you to know that the terms on the contract are the same as the terms and conditions without seeing a copy of the contract. VF also store copies of the agreement off site in such a way that retrieval is almost impossible.

 

VFs form also do not give you enough space to spell out specifically what you want.

 

That is why we recommend that you use your own initiative in sending a letter.

 

You want ALL data relating to this account but of course you will need to spell that out to VF as what you mean by ALL is not always theirs.

 

So:

Contract

Account History

Call logs

Copies of recordings (this will be hard)

Letters/emails/text messages sent by VF to you.

Code sheets. (VF place codes on their system so you will need to know what they mean)

 

If VF keep a separate system to the normal one, data from that if different to the normal one. It is well known that some companies keep a separate system alongside the standard one.

 

With any call recordings, this is a game which I wish VF must change. They state they keep the recordings for between 3 and 120 days. Rubbish! they should keep all recordings for a set period no less than 6 years in line with other data protection policies.

[fkofilee]

With any call recordings, this is a game which I wish VF must change. They state they keep the recordings for between 3 and 120 days. Rubbish! they should keep all recordings for a set period no less than 6 years in line with other data protection policies.

 

Yes they keep them for 60 days only, so any calls made in the last 60 days they will have, beyond that chances are non existent of getting anything.

Noddle and Clearscore are good. Vodafone are most definitely trigger happy with defaults.

 

Vodafone are also supply you with the appropriate notice if your T&Cs change, sometimes they just dont bother.

[BankFodder]

I've responded to an email and am waiting for a reply

[Caligulazbaby]

Hi guys here's the update, this is an e-mail I received from Lee regarding what's happened so far. I'm not really sure what to make of it, looks a lot like they're trying to buy their way out of it by offering a clean slate which isn't much of an offer given the slate shouldn't have been dirtied by them in the first place!

 

 

 

Hi Michael,

I've reviewed your account again and can confirm that if you agree for us to reconnect your service, I'll arrange for the balance of £388.80 (inc. VAT) to be credited in full.

I'll also arrange for a replacement SIM to be sent to you.

Once reconnected, we'll start to bill you again at £34.50 (inc. VAT) a month. This includes 600 UK minutes, Unlimited UK texts and 500MB of UK data.

If you'd like to go ahead with this, let me know.

If you decide against this, payment of £388.80 (inc. VAT) will be required to settle your account.

Kind regards,

Lee

Social Media Comms

Vodafone Limited

Vodafone HQ, The Connection, Newbury, Berkshire, RG14 2FN

Registered in England No 1471587

[BankFodder]

So the effect of this is to say that although they failed to give you a Sim card and therefore failed to provide you with any service which continued for seven months, they still consider that you owe them all the money during the period for which they provided no service, but if you will agree to start another contract with Vodafone then they will forget the money that you owe them for not receiving any service and you will each continue best friends as if nothing ever happened.

 

On the other hand, if you don't renew your contract with Vodafone, then they will consider that you still owe them the money which they have charged you for giving you no service and presumably they will then go on to pursue you taking all action possible – credit file, debt collectors, threats, et cetera – (but presumably short of court action) until you eventually give in under the weight of all the harassment and you pay them the money which they want in return for providing you with no service just simply so you can start leading a tranquil life.

 

I say that Vodafone will pursue you by all means possible, short of court action, because they must know deep down that if they ever had the brass neck to take this in front of a judge, they would be laughed out of court and held up to ridicule.

 

I wonder if Lee would like to say anything about this? Lee?

 

I wonder if Vodafone have already trashed your credit file? I'm sure that they have but I suggest that you take steps now to find out formally whether any of this is reflected in your credit file.

 

You can do this by checking with Noddle or with Experian and I would suggest also that you send Vodafone an SAR requiring that they disclose to you all data which they hold on you including correspondence, internal correspondence, screen notes, notes of telephone conversations, recordings of telephone conversations and also information as to which third parties they would have shared any information relating to you with.

 

Vodafone are obliged to comply with this request by law within 40 days on payment of £10.

 

Vodafone routinely requires that a special form is filled in. This requirement is unlawful because they are not entitled to impose any other formalities on a data subject who wishes access to his or her personal data.

 

I have heard somewhere that Vodafone are being less insistent about this, but I suppose that there is a risk that they will use the lack of some special form to delay compliance with their statutory duties.

 

This would be in line with what I have seen on this forum and which amounts to bullying and domineering behaviour by Vodafone.

 

Vodafone must be getting really desperate for business if they are now resorting effectively to blackmailing people into renewing contracts when it is Vodafone who are in the wrong – and in fact in this case they have admitted that this is been all caused by a system error.

 

What kind of business is it that can insist on being paid 100% and yet beloeve it's reasonable to provide less than 100% of what they have promised.

 

If this is the best that the Vodafone rep on this forum can offer, then I suggest that you stop dealing with him. We will help you get a proper solution if you are prepared to go the distance.

 

This story makes me very worried because we have had a lot of people being led away from the forum by the Vodafone rep and we have no idea of the kind of settlement that they have been obliged to enter into to produce a solution. If this case is any indication, then it seems to me that Vodafone are simply browbeating people into accepting some disadvantageous compromise.

 

A proper solution here would be for Vodafone to agree that they have failed, that there is no debt, that if they have placed any entries on your credit file then those entries should be deleted and Vodafone should then offer you a reasonable compensation the having been without your service for so long, for having been forced to obtain an alternative service with a loss of your usual phone number, and for the trouble and hassle that you have been put to the so long.

 

Let's not forget that the Vodafone rep here and all the rest of them, get paid for dealing with their customers. On the other hand, their customers don't get paid. They are put to this trouble and inconvenience for free simply so they can get on with their lives.

 

Vodafone seems to employ a customer service department whose main aim seems to be to disrupt people's lives or do whatever else it takes to protect what they fondly believe to be the interests of their employer.

 

Send the SAR.

 

Check your credit file.

I understand that you are no longer interested in doing business with Vodafone. I can't say I blame you.

 

I suggest that you send Vodafone a letter effectively telling them that what they're proposing is wholly unacceptable. That your confidence in them is destroyed.

 

Tell them that you want formal notice from them that there is no debt and also that they have not placed any entries on your credit file – or else, if they have, that these entries will be deleted forthwith. Tell them also that you want formal acknowledgement from them that there is no longer any business relationship between the two of you.

 

Send this letter separately from the SAR

[fkofilee]

BF before we jump, we dont know if its a new contract as such? Could it be a SIM Only deal?

We need to know Caligulazbaby as this could be something that you could use to your advantage.