TFL Red Route PCN, being chased by UKPC for Hire Company?

[ppeetteerr1]

Hi,

 

I've recently moved to London from Australia and hired a car for a weekend. I stopped in a red route with the hire car. I know this is the forum for parking enforcement, however for some reason I have UKPC chasing me.

 

Apparently they work for the hire car company and are charging me £49.95 for them to move the liability from them to me. I called the hire car company and they have confirmed that this is their procedure.

 

They emailed me a few days ago with an invoice (attached to this post). They also attached a copy of the PCN issued to them by TFL.

 

I called TFL and they confirmed that they have received my details from the hire car company and that they will forward me the fine.

 

I will pay the TFL fine, but what's with the UKPC invoice? What do I do with this? If you look at the attached invoice, it says that they can charge me interest for late payments.

Edited January 22, 2016 by citizenB

[dx100uk]

you totally ignore ukpc and pay TFL.

and get a receipt

[silverfox1961]

Hi

As I see it, this is an admin charge which would have no real basis in fact. The rental company has passed the PCN on to UKPC to do the leg work which consists of going to the DVLA to get your details (£2.50), printing the autogenerated letter and posting it (70p max) so why an admin charge of £49.95.

 

This would take no more than 10 minutes to do so even if it were enforceable the costs are way above what is reasonable.

 

Then again, this is UKPC

[Mr.P]

The rental company would already have contact details along with driving licence information from the rental agreement. No need to go to the DVLA (they wouldn't have information about foreign nationals anyway).

[ppeetteerr1]

Thanks for the replies so far! But if I ignore the UKPC and pay TFL, then do the UKPC have a right to keep on chasing me?

 

 

I'm worried that if this escalates they will continue charging me the £0.16 interest per day.

Then if they sue me I'll end up paying way over the original £49.95 that they are asking for.

 

If you read the last paragraph of the invoice that I attached to the original post,

they are saying that transferring the liability is a "difficult and time-consuming process".

 

 

Perhaps I am misunderstanding what they mean by "transferring liability"?

[dx100uk]

they have no legal powers whatsoever

end of!!

 

 

when you pay it

just ask TFL what to do

they'll tell you and most prob sort it.

 

 

theres something funny here going on...

its almost as if they are claiming you jave a separate PPC ticket issued by them....

[ppeetteerr1]

These guys keep emailing me and trying to charge me for their "service". I'm worried about if they have the right to charge me based on something in the Terms and Conditions that I signed when hiring the car. If this is the case, should I just pay them the £49.95?

[dx100uk]

no you ignore them

 

have told them the pcn has already been paid

[Tony P]

I wonder if this £49.95 is just an Admin Charge made by the Car Rental firm for dealing with a Notice to Keeper they received for a date within the hire period.

 

Rental contracts usually provide for making such a charge for going through their records and supplying Hirer/Driver information - to avoid their own penalty for failing to comply with a NtoK

 

Usually these Admin Charges are recovered from the Hirer via Credit Card information held as security but in the absence of that maybe they are getting UKPC to collect their Admin Charge.

 

This would have nothing to do with paying TfL for the actual PCN.

[dx100uk]

well any admin charges are unlawful

 

dx

[ppeetteerr1]

Thanks for the all the replies!

 

Apparently now since the fine is overdue, I'm being charged a daily interest of £0.16 per day under the Late Payment of Commercial Debts [interest] Act 1998. So the £49.95 is slowly creeping up.

 

I haven't told them that I have paid the TFL fine yet because I have not paid it yet. I've been in touch with TFL and they are due to send the fine out to me soon. I haven't received it yet.

 

dx100uk and Tony P:

From what I understand, this is exactly an admin charge. Basically, the hire car company commission UKPC to deal with all their fines. It's UKPC's job to "transfer the liability" to the people that hired the car. This would involve sending TFL a copy of the lease agreement I had with the hire car company.

 

Why do you think these admin charges would be unlawful? Can't they charge me for whatever they like as long as I signed for it? Maybe there was something regarding this in the fine print of the hire agreement I signed...

[dx100uk]

what 'fine' with whom

and who is charging interest?

 

 

load of cobreres

 

 

ignore them

they UKPC nor the hire company can fine you anything

 

 

its a speculative INVOICE

 

 

look CAREFULLY on the communication's..

nowhere do they use the word FINE.

 

 

don't get spoofed

[ppeetteerr1]

UKPC is charging me interest as their invoice is "overdue". They're quoting the Late Payment of Commercial Debts [interest] Act 1998 at the very very bottom of the page that I attached to this thread.

 

Anyway, thanks for the advice! I'll definitely keep you posted of the outcome or if they send me another email!

[dx100uk]

haha ruddy fleecers

 

 

did you find that word fine then....?

[ppeetteerr1]

The word "fine" isn't on the invoice. They just want to charge me for transferring the liability to me. It's more of a "fee" rather than a "fine".

[dx100uk]

there you go

its a speculative invoice.

 

 

answered it yourself

[ppeetteerr1]

 

Speculative invoice regardless of what was in my hire agreement (the contract between myself and the hire car company)?

 

I'm gonna report these people to the Trading Standards.

[lookinforinfo]

well any admin charges are unlawful.dx

.

 

Are they ?

Can you point to any Law or Regulation that would confirm that please?

 

I accept that where no provision has been made to add admin charges then that may not be legal and excessive admin charges are also questionable.

 

However I think the OP did say that the Hire company did include an admin charge where motoring offences had occurred

and they had to deal with them in their T&Cs.

 

So the question would be is £49.95 way over the top for the sort of admin that the Hire company carried out.

Personally I would think it was excessive

in the first instance I would challenge that amount with the Hire Company.

 

This should have the effect of UKPC not being allowed to intervene until the question of the right admin fee for work carried out had been agreed.

And whatever that price is, UKPC cannot add on extra.

 

On the subject of late payment if there is no mention of it on the Hire contract then they can go whistle.

[dx100uk]

well if it applicable [and I suspect it is]

the FSA now the FCA, clearly stated that any financial penalty fee is unlawful

 

 

just because its in whatever T&C's for whatever you signed upto, the company that are trying to levy such a fee

must justify its level if over £12. bottom line it is of an excessive level and no breakdown has been provided.

 

 

gotta agree with you there......

 

 

anything in anyones T&C can be challenged..ie like bank charges

so I suspect this does fall under that FSA remit..

..also it very telling they use some speculative invoice company to try and get it...

...if was lawful..then they'd choose a lawful route to enforce it...

 

 

someone wants their pockets lining.. franchise signing comes to mind here....

 

 

dx

[lookinforinfo]

dx100uk I agree that T&Cs are not sacrosanct and unfair terms can be challenged. However there does appear to be some situations where admin fees are taken into

consideration at law.

 

EG The provisions of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002, in Section 158 and Schedule 11(4)(1), require that

 

"A demand for the payment of an administration charge must be accompanied by a summary of the rights and obligations of tenants of dwellings in relation to administration charges".

[citizenB]

Attachment in post # 1 removed as requested.

[ericsbrother]

UKPC are not party to your agreement with the hire co so they cant add anything to whatever you agreed with the hire co regarding admin fees,

 

nor can they levy their own fee because they are not party to your agreement.

 

If the lease agreement sayd you owe £50 on top of every ticket you get then that is what you pay to the hire co or their agents.

 

if no fixed sum is expressly mentioned then the admin charge is the price of a stamp for sending you the letter and you can ignore UKPC and their taradiddles.