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    • I Submitted my defence last weekend,. In short, denying all allegations and requesting that the claim be struck out as claimant has no documents to support their claim and  have failed to provide any evidence whatsoever that any monies are owed to them by me and I considered it an abuse of process.   I have now received their directions questionnaire where they are championing 'Mediation over the telephone'   Should I agree to mediation once I receive the questionnaire from the court bearing in mind the dispute is about the existence of the alleged account and the lack of documents to prove it exists/ existed?   All I can say in mediation is that I've never heard of the account...... Do Lowell have to provide documents to the mediator?    Thanks in advance for any advice offered and sorry if the answers can be found elsewhere, but I'm not sure where to look 🤓   Spam 
    • Thank you all for the comments.. I hope to get a transcription of the recording, but I don't know if that's possible. I have asked the Court so will see what comes back. This is an overview and may not be exact wording..    I'll add the highlights from what I understood.. [both Judge & Mr D were well into the legal jargon].. some of the more technical discussion was lost on me..   Opening Statements.. VCS......Events from Incident to Court summons.. pretty much the WS opening Me........Night time, bad weather, bad visibility, children in danger walking on the road so "Signs" were not very clear VCS......Pictures on their WS were in daylight. Picture of the car we very blurry due to the rain. VCS agreed it was bad.. Me........Kangaroo Court - Every drop down on the appeal site is an admission of some sort of guilt. Needs to be an "Other" in case your situation doesn.t match Judge...Asked for clarification on POFA from VCS  VCS......Explained POFA in his terms and what he understood Judge...Was it a Parking event? VCS......No, it was a Stopping event Judge...Asked VCS who owns the land.. he didn't know so I told him Southend Council owns the freehold of the airport, but it has been leased since 1994 to London Southend Airport Company Limited Judge...Surprised VCS didn't know that Judge...Asked VCS if the Contract is relevant? VCS......Yes,  Judge...Still not clear VCS......Quoted VCS v Ward & Idle..  Me........That's not in your WS so is it admissible? Judge...That's not relevant in this case.. he had a quick look. Judge...Is the land relevant VCS......No real valid response, referred to VCS contract with the airport. Me........Why is Mr Wasi the paralegal not here as he may know? Judge...Section 46 refers to Parking/Waiting. Me........It all refers to Parking.. and I was not parked or waiting.. ## I expect Simple will see this as a loophole so may change it ##   Closing Statements: Me........VCS are aggressive in all their actions, as you can see by the Letters in their WS.. I also went through all the Arguments at a high level, such as Bye-Laws, Road Traffic Act [Public access etc.., the POFA discussed Parking, not Stopping, PO Box on the Signs, no address. VCS......Pretty much same as the Opening statement as far as I remember..    Judge...   Car was stopped for 30 seconds Multiple Signs The Driver "did" enter into a Contract as they entered the airport But.... Does POFA apply Needs distinction Stopped not Parked Only applies to Parking Judge referred VCS to Jopson v Homeguard 👍  Defendant wins the case & is not obliged to pay VCS any Fines   Judge to VCS... do you want to Appeal VCS.. Yes Sir................... but after 20 seconds he changed his mind to No Sir, no appeal at this time..  Judge to VCS... you have 3 weeks to appeal if you change your mind.   So.. VCS may appeal, but I had a feeling that he may have been tapped on the shoulder and advised to say No.. at the time..     ### As far as I can remember, this is how it went down ###.
    • Let us know when the hearing date has been set and then we will try to help you sort out your arguments and your documents. You will need to submit a court bundle. Please follow the court bundle link
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    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 33 replies

Delay in delivery of new vehicle ** Settled **


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My husband ordered a new car on the basis that it would be available on 30th November. Prior to delivery to us, it was to go to a specialist firm for adaptation to meet my needs as a wheelchair user. The retailer was aware from the outset that the car was needed fairly urgently. It is not a Motablility vehicle, we've paid a £500 deposit, there's no part exchange and we're paying the balance without any sort of finance.

 

Only 3 days before delivery was due, we were informed that there would be a few days delay, but that the vehicle would definitely be available in plenty of time for a planned, extended holiday starting on the 14th December (which they also knew about when we ordered), so we rearranged delivery for 11th as my husband was working away from home until then. In the meantime we had arranged for our old car to go to a relative, who accordingly arranged the sale of his car and transferred his insurance to start on 11th.

 

On 9th December I phoned to confirm some details only to be told that the vehicle had only been received by the retailer that day would not be ready until 19th December at the earliest, meaning that we would be unable to collect it until we return home at the end of January. On the same day we received the vehicle registration document dated 30th November, meaning that by the time we got our 'new' car, it would actually technically be 2 months old.

 

Obviously this has put us to enormous inconvenience, the relative who was due to have our car has ended up having to borrow one as he didn't want to lose the sale on his car/upset the person he was selling to, it turned out to be cheaper to let his new insurance run rather than cancel (which we're paying) and since our existing car isn't adapted, we're having to limit how often I get in and out as it's painful and risks hubby's back every time.

 

We're definitely asking for the warranty/service plan to run from the day we collect, not 30th November, but we're not sure what else we could/should ask for. The bottom line is that we want the car, we spent a long time researching which would best meet our needs and this one won hands down so we don't want to walk away, though if we did, the dealer would effectively be left with an unsaleable vehicle as the adaptation couldn't be removed without trace. However, had we known we couldn't have the car until the end of Jan, we'd have waited another month and had a 2016 model.

 

Also, I've just thought that if the vehicle is registered in hubby's name, is he also risking getting done for no tax or insurance?

RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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Cancel the order. By stating that you need it for a holiday on a certain date means you made time of the essence. They must give you a full refund. Then go to another dealer and get your 2016 registered car.

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My husband ordered a new car on the basis that it would be available on 30th November. Prior to delivery to us, it was to go to a specialist firm for adaptation to meet my needs as a wheelchair user. The retailer was aware from the outset that the car was needed fairly urgently. It is not a Motablility vehicle, we've paid a £500 deposit, there's no part exchange and we're paying the balance without any sort of finance.

 

Only 3 days before delivery was due, we were informed that there would be a few days delay, but that the vehicle would definitely be available in plenty of time for a planned, extended holiday starting on the 14th December (which they also knew about when we ordered), so we rearranged delivery for 11th as my husband was working away from home until then. In the meantime we had arranged for our old car to go to a relative, who accordingly arranged the sale of his car and transferred his insurance to start on 11th.

 

On 9th December I phoned to confirm some details only to be told that the vehicle had only been received by the retailer that day would not be ready until 19th December at the earliest, meaning that we would be unable to collect it until we return home at the end of January. On the same day we received the vehicle registration document dated 30th November, meaning that by the time we got our 'new' car, it would actually technically be 2 months old.

 

Obviously this has put us to enormous inconvenience, the relative who was due to have our car has ended up having to borrow one as he didn't want to lose the sale on his car/upset the person he was selling to, it turned out to be cheaper to let his new insurance run rather than cancel (which we're paying) and since our existing car isn't adapted, we're having to limit how often I get in and out as it's painful and risks hubby's back every time.

 

We're definitely asking for the warranty/service plan to run from the day we collect, not 30th November, but we're not sure what else we could/should ask for. The bottom line is that we want the car, we spent a long time researching which would best meet our needs and this one won hands down so we don't want to walk away, though if we did, the dealer would effectively be left with an unsaleable vehicle as the adaptation couldn't be removed without trace. However, had we known we couldn't have the car until the end of Jan, we'd have waited another month and had a 2016 model.

 

Also, I've just thought that if the vehicle is registered in hubby's name, is he also risking getting done for no tax or insurance?

 

 

 

If the vehicle has been registered in your Hubby's name, it will have had to have had insurance in his name at the time it was registered. Also it will be taxed as when you register a vehicle you have to tax it at the same time. If the tax had been cashed in since it was registered your Hubby would have received a cheque from the outstanding balance from the DVLA.

 

 

I am guessing that the vehicle was registered in November to get around the alterations made for you disabled access having to conform with the Vehicle type approval process. If it was done pre-registration any alterations would have to conform 100% with the legislation, which would add a large cost to the conversion. If done after registration it is classed as an after market modification and is much cheaper as there is no testing/type approval paperwork to go through. Its worth remembering that you will need to inform your insurance of the modifications if this is the case as the vehicle will have been modified.

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If the vehicle has been registered in your Hubby's name, it will have had to have had insurance in his name at the time it was registered. Also it will be taxed as when you register a vehicle you have to tax it at the same time. If the tax had been cashed in since it was registered your Hubby would have received a cheque from the outstanding balance from the DVLA.

 

I'm assuming that not being the owner of the vehicle and having no knowledge that the vehicle was going to be registered in his name on that date is an absolute defence - in fact, he can't insure it as he's neither the owner nor driver until it's delivered to him. There's no tax as it's exempt.

 

I am guessing that the vehicle was registered in November to get around the alterations made for you disabled access having to conform with the Vehicle type approval process. If it was done pre-registration any alterations would have to conform 100% with the legislation, which would add a large cost to the conversion. If done after registration it is classed as an after market modification and is much cheaper as there is no testing/type approval paperwork to go through. Its worth remembering that you will need to inform your insurance of the modifications if this is the case as the vehicle will have been modified.

I think you are misinformed here or confused as to the type of adaptation - it's a standard disablity adaptation that is fitted to many vehicles, both new and used, and was due to be fitted after delivery to the dealer. No inspection would have been required regardless of when the adaptation was done. We believe it was registered before the vehicle had even finished being built, to boost sales figures for the month.

Thanks for replying.

RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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There's no tax as it's exempt.

 

 

It may be exempt from paying VED, but not from being licensed.

 

 

It is the registered keeper that commits the offences if a registered vehicle is not licensed or covered by insurance.

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Thanks for replying.

I'm assuming that not being the owner of the vehicle and having no knowledge that the vehicle was going to be registered in his name on that date is an absolute defence - in fact, he can't insure it as he's neither the owner nor driver until it's delivered to him. There's no tax as it's exempt.

 

 

I think you are misinformed here or confused as to the type of adaptation - it's a standard disablity adaptation that is fitted to many vehicles, both new and used, and was due to be fitted after delivery to the dealer. No inspection would have been required regardless of when the adaptation was done. We believe it was registered before the vehicle had even finished being built, to boost sales figures for the month.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If he has the V5C then he is the registered keeper. To get this he will have filled his details in on the V55/1 form at the dealership when agreeing the purchase of the vehicle. If this isn't the case than the dealership must have put his details on and signed on his behalf. You don't have to be the owner or be in possession of the vehicle to get insurance. Most likely it was insured on a short term policy by the dealership in your Husbands name. This is pretty common practice with dealerships when selling vehicles as it makes it easier for the buyer to tax their vehicle. The vehicle still needs taxing. It is not exempt it will be in a free tax class, whereby you don't have to pay, but this doesn't mean that it doesn't need taxing every year.

 

 

As for the alterations, it depends what these are as to whether it would need to go through the type approval issue. What changes are they making as part of this standard disability adaptation?

 

 

They will have struggled to register the vehicle without it been built as the manufacturer will not have issued the relevant paperwork and certificates to allow the vehicle to be registered without the vehicle actually existing.

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I would very much doubt that type approval is required for a disability modification.

 

Tax should be arranged by the dealer on delivery and will not be allowed on the road until then.

 

I think the dealer may have processed the paperwork for the new owner and was then told that there was a delay in delivery hence the V5 being dated when it is.

 

You are probably within your rights to cancel the order but you have to ask yourself if you will gain from this. The advent of twice yearly registrations means that second hand values are not effected as much. I would probably look at cancelling if there is a new model due but if not threaten to cancel and see what you can get from the dealer in compensation.

 

We had this where the dealer forgot to transfer my wifes private plate over and thus delayed delivery. I complained to the manufacturer and was offered anything from the extras catalogue. We chose to have bluetooth fitted.

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I would very much doubt that type approval is required for a disability modification.

 

 

If sold as a new vehicle, depending on the modification, it may not be covered by the manufacturer's type approval process and/or may need its own type approval.

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If sold as a new vehicle, depending on the modification, it may not be covered by the manufacturer's type approval process and/or may need its own type approval.

 

 

 

It depends what the modifications are. Even slight modifications can cause issues with type approval.

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If the insurance is going to be an issue, then we'll have to deal with that as and when as we cannot get insurance at the moment as we're not in the UK and none of the online sites will quote for a vehicle which is modified and not his, which it isn't until it's paid for. It would probably cost more to use the mobile from here than any fine we end up having to pay, which the dealer would have to refund anyway. The only paperwork we signed was the order form, so they must have applied for the registration document for him.

 

We aren't going to cancel as we do want the car, however it's already pretty high spec and there's nothing else in extras that we want. The car already comes with 5 years free servicing and a 5 year warranty, so it seems that about the only thing we can ask for is some money off. It's a new model that's only been out a few months so there's nothing on the market that we can compare with, such as an ex demo, to see what sort of discount we'd have got if we'd bought one of those. It may not matter hugely in the great scheme of things that it's going to be a November 2015 vehicle instead of January/February 2016, but it's still spoilt our first experience of buying a new car.

RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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  • 4 weeks later...

The dealer effectively paid for the adaptation to the vehicle, plus a couple of other 'gifts'.

 

We're still a bit disappointed that we didn't get to use the car for the holiday, but there's always next time and overall, we're happy customers. We're particularly impressed that the dealer made such an effort to make sure we're happy, though the 'customer satisfaction survey' that will supposedly arrive in the post in a few weeks may have had something to do with it - mentioning it as often as they did is a bit of a giveaway. Since they were so keen to make amends, I feel it would be unfair to name the dealership.

RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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  • 1 month later...

You need to inform Motability of what happened, and that you were mislead about the registration date. It would need to be extremely extenuating circumstances for them to allow a dealer to register it two months in advance, after all Motab are the credit intermediary.

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You need to inform Motability of what happened, and that you were mislead about the registration date. It would need to be extremely extenuating circumstances for them to allow a dealer to register it two months in advance, after all Motab are the credit intermediary.

 

It's not a Motability vehicle.

RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 1817 days.

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