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    • to frighten and intimidate you most probably. don't engage.   have you done your WS yet? needs doing in the next 7days    
    • I just got the same response from Hermes below. What would you advise I do next?    "I am sorry you have had to contact us regarding the delivery of your parcel.    I have looked into your concerns and understand that as as you selected the maximum compensation level of £300 Hermes cannot exceed this amount as per your contract.   So that we can process this as quickly as possible for you, we kindly request that you send us some details:   - your bank sort code - your bank account number (the short one, not the long card number) - your name as it appears on your bank card   Once we have received the above information, we will send you a further email once the payment has been processed. This can take up to 5 working days to reach you   Please accept my apologies for the frustration this has caused you.       If you require any further assistance, please don’t hesitate to contact us."  
    • Hi had a call today and the number is associated with Moneyboat why would they be calling this close to the court hearing? Any ideas welcomed    Thanks G
    • Hello   In my view  a self imposed bankruptcy is not necessary.   Your friend just has to accept the situation he is in and set things up to deal with it.   I think that by following a plan off filing everything, saying nothing and letting the Creditors do all the work he will come out of it in the end.   He may need to get his girlfriend on board but once he understands what these creditors can (and cannot do) it may well become less of a worry and more of a sport!   In post #8 you asked for the stages of collection so based on my experience since 2006 I will give you the various stages and make some other comments:   You fail to meet a payment date:- the creditor writes a reminder letter You ignore the letter, they send another letter and possibly emails, SMS and phone calls, all of which are ignored. The cycle continues for a period of time with a number of letters arriving from the creditor. Sometimes the case will be handed off to a Debt collector for a time which is nothing more than a company set up to make phone calls and write automatic letters. They have no power and can be ignored. At some point the creditor will issue a Default notice. This is legally important to the Creditor (but not necessarily important to your friend as it is required by the consumer credit act before any other action is taken. It will give a date by which you must do something usually to pay the arrears. If you don’t pay the arrears then you are in Default and they can go to the next stage. After a period of some months account closure usually follows. It is unlikely the Creditor will take legal action. After a period of time where you continue to get periodic letters and communications from various debt collectors the debt is sold typically for 10p to 15p in the £ to a Debt buyer. This might take six months or as much as a couple of years. You receive a “goodbye” letter from the creditor which says it has sold the debt to the buyer. You receive a “hullo” letter from the debt buyer which tells you that I now owns the debt. Sometimes the above two are in the same envelope.   The debt buyer will start out very friendly but will then get more aggressive. Even at this stage it is best to ignore them. They will sometimes offer you an amount less than the full value to get a quick profit from their purchase. You might want to take advantage of it but I take the view that if they had a strong case to get everything why would they settle for less? They know they have a weak claim when you get this kind of letter. At some point they will do an assessment on you to decide if it is worth taking court action. The bigger the debt the more likely it is, also if you are seen to have assets such as a property or shares. They will start by instructing a solicitor to send a Letter Before Action. This states what they think you owe them and gives you a set amount of time to pay it or respond with payment proposals. It may be wise to respond at this point but best to refer it to this forum for proper advice on what to do. After you fail to respond to the above they will pay a court fee and issue a County court Claim. You will receive a claim pack from the court with a number of sheets of paper; the claim itself, an acknowledgment of service, a defence form. The claim is usually created on line with the solicitor typing in the details. The Court then automatically prints and sends the claim pack. As a result it will not have any supporting documents such as original agreements, statements or anything else. IMPORTANT: this is the first document you absolutely must respond to. First thing to do is find the paper that says acknowledgment of service and send it back. This gives you 28 days to respond instead of 14. If you don't do this or immediately defend then after 14 days you will automatically loose. After this you are into the world of defending the claim which is usually very defend-able as the Solicitor has in all likelihood not provided you with any documents. This is because neither he nor his client have any and they will have to go back to the original lender to get any and very likely they will not get them. (In my own experience I helped a friend by writing to ten creditors asking for copies of the original agreement and not one came up with anything). It is possible you could loose the case in which case you still owe the money and are not much worse of than before because the creditor still has to collect it and without assets it will take a long time to pay off.   Overall, though I don’t think it is a great idea to be in debt, given the extent to which your friend is buried my advice is to consider the old adage “If you owe a tenner it is your problem, if you owe Ten thousand it is their problem”.   To that extent I would follow this plan:   Save all correspondence including the envelopes they arrived in. Do it in chronological order and have separate folders for each debt. As a rule, ignore everything unless it comes from a solicitor or the Court. I cannot stress this enough. Be a black hole into which letters, emails, texts and phone calls disappear, never to be answered, replied to or spoken to in any way. Some people just cannot shut up! Make sure your friend does! The exception is if your friend changes address in which case write to every creditor (or debt buyer that has bought the debt) and advise of change of address WITHOUT signing the letter as such, just type the name at the bottom.   (This is so they don't send court documents to the old address). In most if not all cases that will be it. Just keep filing until six years have passed or five in Scotland. This is because after that time the debt becomes statute barred and the courts will not consider it as it has become too old. (The statue barred date begins 14 days after the date of the Default notice mentioned above and six years after that it is all over for court action). In one or two cases a Court Claim may be made in which case defend it which is a whole other ball game but basically ask them for proof of the debt which they very likely cannot provide, if they can provide challenge it's enforceability,  mostly it's game over for them.   Your friend can start to get on with his life if he follows this plan and learns to accept that these debts are not necessarily the millstone he thinks. He can live within his means and have a good and fun life which is what he deserves. The original creditors have accepted some money from the debt buyer so presumably are happy and the debt buyer will make a profit across the whole bunch of debts he bought even if he makes nothing from your friend so he is happy. If nether of them are happy then they should not have got themselves into the situation in the first place.   As always I finish my comments by saying I am not a legal professional just a guy that got into to trouble in 2006 and learned a lot of this stuff along the way.   I welcome any comments from other CAGers, particularly if they spot any mistakes.
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Hillesden/mortimer claimform - Black horse loan SB'd [re:term date =SB -NOT!]


Floydian
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Right.

Do not want to give too many details but

 

 

I am being taken to court by the mighty Mortimer mob.

 

 

I have seen no evidence of the amount I claim to own

I apparently stopped paying around 2nd of September 2009.

I have not paid anything else on this alleged debt.

 

It was a bank loan, unsecured.

 

I say it's barred under the limitations act since nothing has been paid or any communication

has been entered into within six years and three months.

 

 

MCS are, of course, going by a 'termination of contract'. which they claim happened around March 2010

saying the debt is not barred (they of course quote bmw v hart).

 

 

That would mean over six months before they thought they had any cause of action apparently.

I did not get any 'termination of contract' at my house!

 

So who is right?

Can the original loaner dictate when the barred starts ticking?

Should it have started on December 3rd 2009 after three missed payments?

 

Need any help including a relevant defence,

would like them to send me proof as well.

 

 

All I have is on the court papers claiming what I owe.

 

 

This alleged debt is not anywhere on my credit report either.

Thought it would have been if they hadn't even terminated the contract until March 2010

when my report would have been updated to reflect that?

 

Letters to get some evidence would help.

 

 

Do I bother with SAR and CCA as although I have filed AOS I only have about 20 days.

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no need to hide things

 

 

we need to info to help you.

just redact anything that can ID you

 

 

please fill this out...

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-December-2014**(1-Viewing)-nbsp

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Name of the Claimant Hillesden Securities

Date of issue – 14th December

What is the claim for –

 

 

By an agreement between BLACK HORSE LTD & the defendent on or around 18/09/2008. ('the agreement').

BLACK HORSE LOAN LTD agreed to loan the defendant monies.

The Defendent did not pay the instalments as they fell due & the agreement was terminated.

The agreement was assigned to the claimant.

 

 

THE CLAIMENT CLAIMS THEREFORE £2400

Last payment year (date of last payment) was 2nd August 2009

What is the value of the claim? £2400

 

Is the claim for a current account (Overdraft) or credit/loan account or mobile phone account? Loan

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007? After

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor

or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Account assigned

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Not that I recall

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Not that I recall

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? Not sure

Why did you cease payments? It's alleged at this stage

What was the date of your last payment? 2nd September WHEN

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor

and make any attempt to enter into a debt managementicon plan? No

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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can we have the full poc please

 

and last payment year..

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Ok.

 

By an agreement between BLACK HORSE LTD & the defendent on or around 18/09/2008. ('the agreement'). BLACK HORSE LOAN LTD agreed to loan the defendant monies. The Defendent did not pay the instalments as they fell due & the agreement was terminated. The agreement was assigned to the claimant. THE CLAIMENT CLAIMS THEREFORE £2400

 

Last payment year (date of last payment) was 2nd August 2009

 

Thanks guys :)

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ok ta

 

 

if you are 100% happy it IS Sb'd

 

 

go ack the claim - defend all, leave juris unticked

and file the SB defence now

 

 

no need to do anything else.

 

 

looks like hillies are issuing hundreds of these claims

in the hope of a few default uncontested default judgements

 

 

The following defence is all you need if it is SB

1 The Claimant's claim was issued on (insert date).

2 The Defendant contends that the Claimant's claim so issued is a claim in contract and is statute barred pursuant to the provisions of section 5 of the limitation act 1980.

.

If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the Defendant is in breach of the alleged contract, in excess of 6 years have elapsed since the date on which any cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant.

.

3 The Claimant's claim to be entitled to payment of £[insert figure from their POC] or any other sum, or relief of any kind is denied.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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doubt it, they use that to unsettle claimants

so how have they replied with that

have you already sent a defence?

 

 

or did you write to them outside of the court process////

 

 

tell us where you are at in the process..

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Did not write.

 

 

Spoke to them on the phone and denied ownership of debt until proof can be provided.

 

 

They told me the last payment date of 2nd August 2009.

 

 

I brought up stat barred and they gave me the hart v bmw case law.

 

 

They claim the date of stat barred goes by the contract termination of March 2010 so not stat barred.

The last payment date is irrelevant they claim.

 

That was the only communication.

I recorded the conversation.

Denied their debt and advice will not contact again except CCA requests.

 

I have only filed AOS to extend the case. I have opted to defend all the claim.

 

Thank you

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never talk to anyone about you debts on the phone

let alone a no powers fleecing DCA.

 

 

you don't need to extend the deadline.

 

 

go file the SB defence

it for a claimant to PROVE the debt is not SB'd

not for the defendant to prove it IS.

 

 

telephone convs are not evidence recorded or otherwise.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks so much it's a worry. What is this all about hart v bmw and them going for termination of contract is the cause of action, not the last payment. They dispute the HP argument.

 

Have we some other case law where the SB defence being lost, due to contract termination being much later than the last payment.

 

They just say it's taken from one of these

 

1) admitted the debt

2) Contract termination

3) last payment

 

6 years from the latest event.

 

 

 

 

Also is four missed payments enough? (Monthly)

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Have we some other case law where the SB defence being lost, due to contract termination being much later than the last payment.)

 

Some judges will decide the clock starts from default/termination.

 

An example

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?447033-PRA-Group-claimform-old-MBNA-card-debt&p=4776427&viewfull=1#post4776427

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no-one can protect against the judge lottery syndrome

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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This is what National Debtline says, which makes good sense to me:

 

Unsecured credit debts

 

Unsecured credit debts are things like credit cards, store cards, personal loans and catalogues. When using the Limitation Act, these debts are often called ‘simple contract debts’.

The Limitation Act says that the limitation period for simple contract debts is six years.

The cause of action (when the limitation period starts running) for simple contract debts, is usually when your agreement says the creditor is able to take court action because you have fallen behind with payments. This is normally after one or two missed payments.

 

 

Other debts are more complex:

 

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/en...limitation_act

 

 

You need to remember that Hart v BMW was not regulated under the CCA.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Sent off CCA request, civil procedure for defence and complained to DLC about Mortimer Clarke changing the law to suit themselves.

 

 

Complained that they have been informed its statute barred and if they continued, once informed, I would take complaint to all relevant bodies.

 

Complaint upheld, discontinued, alleged debt permanently wiped.

 

They will not take anyone to court using this new termination of contract clause so defend this everyone.

(There has been as mentioned probably hundreds of these coming through Northampton Bulk centre.)

 

My invoice is on the way to them. MC are a disgrace, solicitors should know better!

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so the court have comfirmed the case is disc'd?

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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so the court have comfirmed the case is disc'd?

 

 

dx

 

No, this is a response to my complaint about vexatious litigation as the loan is SB and a CCA request for good measure.

DLC have confirmed in writing that they have told Mortimer Clarke to discontinue and my account is closed.

 

 

At this stage it's just an update of proceedings but I doubt they'll proceed after writing that letter confirming the whole matter is closed.

 

Either way I've filed my defence.

 

However I will let you guys know as all my knowledge has come from CAG over the years.

 

Thanks dx1000uk and Ford. So far it looks like one Mortimer Clarke Black Horse Loan case lost.

Others should fight, I can only imagine how many cases they win, unfairly, by default.

 

Guys, complain to original creditor or debt purchaser.

In Black Horse cases the majority of accounts were sold in 2010.

 

 

Send off a CCA request and information under the civil procedure,

also make a formal complaint that they are vexatious litigants if the debt is SB.

 

Next step for me is waiting for the notice of discontinuance and sending off my fee schedule.

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Fee schedule :???:

 

No wasted costs on SCT Floydian

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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Good luck with that :-)

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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The last time I requested and was given £50 for my wasted time.

 

If you keep your costs reasonable, and fair, of course they'll pay. If they don't I expect it'll go to the ombudsman and that'll cost them £600.

 

I can PM you the letter from a debt collector offering ME monies if you want?

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UPDATE

 

DLC confirm action has been stopped and account to be returned to them and closed.

 

Mortimer Clarke pleading ignorance.

 

No discontinued letter to date or response via court.

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Update

 

Notice of discontinued claim received. £100 offered by DLC as way of distress caused.

 

Currently in talks with mortimer over serious complaint over misleading information.

 

Result.

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