army pension - no rights to a preserved pension pre 1975?

[Podzak]

I qualified for my army pension in 1987 due to being unable to work through illness.

They refused to pay me.

I have not worked a day since and am even classed as disabled.

They owe me over £87,000.

I didn't fight for it due to mental problems.

Can I make them pay up now?

Thank you in advance.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

Can you fill in some more details please? It's hard to advise without knowing the full story. Why did they refuse to pay you?

 

HB

[Guest]

podzak

do post up with further info. see if all can help.

i see from your other post you had some records, what happened there.

you're currently on benefits/disability, so that might help re the army claim?

[citizenB]

If you could perhaps provide some more details - have sent out S.O.S for you.

[stu007]

Hi

 

Could you please answer the following questions?

 

1. When did you join the Army?

2. When were you Discharged from the Army?

3. Were you Medically Discharged or Normal Discharge?

4. How many years did you serve?

5. Has your illness/disability been classed as due to your Service in the Forces?

6. Have you applied to get your pension early?

 

You need to be aware that we need to try and find out which of the Forces Pension Schemes you come under as there are different rules for each scheme.

[ScarletPimpernel]

In addition to the questions stu007 has asked, can you also let us know:

 

- have you engaged with the Veterans Welfare Service

- the Royal British Legion

- SSAFA

 

on this issue?

[Podzak]

I joined the Royal Engineers, sept '63.

Demobbed 8/4/72 and again 8/4/75

I was discharged as time served both times.

Served 11 years 240 days.

My disability was due to a fully loaded artic smashing into the back of my car when I was stationary at a red light.

I applied early on the grounds that I was unable to work due to the injuries.

I have since claimed my pension which I qualified for on reaching 60.

However, I delayed claiming for 2 1/2 years as I believed they would cheat me out of that too.

 

I am registered as Disabled because of my injuries.

 

At the medical, the doctor took a dislike to me, not believing I had to rest for 30 mins on my way to York, from Northumberland.

I believe this was why he did not allow my claim.

 

 

I phoned Kentigarn House this year and was told "They must have had a reason to dissalow it so just get over it"!

Edited December 17, 2015 by Podzak

[stu007]

Hi Podzak

 

Could you Clarify the following:

 

You joined Sept 1963

Discharged 8th April 1972

 

Rejoined ???????????????

Discharged 8th April 1975

 

When did this Accident happen with the Artic?

Importantly to above were you On Duty at the time of the Incident?

[Podzak]

Hi Podzak

 

Could you Clarify the following:

 

You joined Sept 1963

Discharged 8th April 1972

 

Rejoined ???????????????

Discharged 8th April 1975

 

When did this Accident happen with the Artic?

Importantly to above were you On Duty at the time of the Incident?

 

 

Found my little red books.

Joined 12/8/1963.

Demobbed ( time served) 8/4/1972.

Reserve 9/4/1972 to 3/9/1972

Re enlisted 4/9/1972.

Demobbed ( again, time served) 8/4/1975

 

 

Accident 8/5/1982 ( not in army at the time)

Stopped working 21/1/1987 ( pain killers not working)

 

 

The doctor

A. Took a dislike to me.

B. Said I wasn't unfit for work. ( even though I had given up a very well paid job that I loved doing)

[Old Cogger]

Army pensions prior to 1975 (Except medical discharge) then you had to do the 22 years/18 years respective except officers, that is why many of us get nothing and we are in our 70s and were not National Service either, so if the service years do not add up then all we were told is hard luck BUT if we left after 1975 then we could claim proportion of service of not full -

 

Their thinking is to save money as more people in the forces prior to 1975 than after so pensions would cost government coffers.

 

Same with deafness from Guns etc prior to 1975 no claim can be made before that date, yet earplugs were only issue albeit too late for a lot of us in mid 60s, for most of us the damage unbeknown at the time has been done!

 

Unless you do a 2 -5 stint in government then no pension BUT they do even for that length of time.

[Podzak]

Aye m8 but that means nowt to me.

I'm getting my pension due to being over 60 so I must also qualify for it due to being unable to work due to illness.

[stu007]

Hi Podzak

 

Sadly due to your service dates their was no rights to a preserved pension pre 1975.

 

In the armed forces, prior to April 1975, there was a system of gratuities for people who left before retirement and who had not completed sufficient years’ service to qualify for a pension (22 years or 16 years in the case of officers). There was no system of preserved pensions or any right to transfer accrued rights to a different scheme. An MOD factsheet explains:

 

"Prior to 1975 there were no rights to preserved pensions in any public or private pension schemes. Most schemes had very restricted qualifying criteria for the award of pensions. For instance, to qualify for a pension under the Civil Service arrangements, an individual had to be over age 50 and have served for ten or more years. Those who left voluntarily before meeting these criteria lost rights to pensions. For the Armed Forces occupational pensions were awarded only if a member had completed at least 16 years reckonable service as an officer or 22 years reckonable service as an other rank. Reckonable service is paid service after age 21 for officers or after age 18 for other ranks."

(The above is taken from Page 4 of Armed Forces Pension Scheme and preserved pensions PDF at the link below)

 

Read More Here: http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN01151

(Please go to bottom of webpage and download the Armed Forces Pension Scheme and preserved pensions PDF and read the report fully especially page 4)

Edited December 18, 2015 by stu007

[Podzak]

All very nice but...

"The Social Security Act 1973 brought about changes by requiring all pension schemes to preserve pension rights for those who left service after 6th April 1975 having completed at least five years qualifying service, and having attained the age of 26 "

I left on 8/4/1975, was 26 years and 364 days old and had served 11 years 240 days.

[stu007]

Hi

 

I can fully see the angle you are getting at with that but the critical part of that is left service [b]"after 6th April 1975"[/b].

 

I think what you need is a full explanation as to why you are being denied this pension in writing.

 

What they may be doing is classing your service as broken service by this I mean 1963-1972 - 9yrs service, Reserve not counted as full time service, 1972-1975 -3yrs service and using your last period 1972-1975-3yrs service as the pension point I could be wrong.

 

I would question this and ask for full clarification please write to the following: (keep copies of all letters and get free Proof of Posting from the Post Office)

 

Veterans UK Pension Division

Mail Point 480

Kentigern House

65 Brown Street

Glasgow, G2 8EX

 

Please ensure you also include your full Service Number, Rank, Unit, Regiment, Service Dates (if possible scan your red book and print a copy and send that as well)

Edited December 18, 2015 by stu007

[Podzak]

Kentigern house is full of [removed]

I have already spoken to them and all they said was "If your pension was refused, they must have had a good reason. Just get on with your life"!

Edited April 22, 2016 by dx100uk
behave - dx

[stu007]

Hi Podzak

 

I know you say you spoke to them but do you actually have that response in writing?

[Old Cogger]

All very nice but...

"The Social Security Act 1973 brought about changes by requiring all pension schemes to preserve pension rights for those who left service after 6th April 1975 having completed at least five years qualifying service, and having attained the age of 26 "

I left on 8/4/1975, was 26 years and 364 days old and had served 11 years 240 days.

 

 

 

 

& we got nothing from the 50/60s unless we had done 18 years or full pension after 22 years, they did that on purpose as prior to 1975 ! = small pay and no benefits.

[Podzak]

Hi Podzak

 

I know you say you spoke to them but do you actually have that response in writing?

Nope.

when you're fobbed off a second time it's not what springs to mind m8.

I never thought i'd need that kind of proof.

[stu007]

Hi Podzak

 

I can appreciate what your saying but don't get fobbed off by them (does the person you spoke to really know and understand all the forces rules and regs for the response you got?) put it in writing to them what your issue is and ask for full clarification. (remember to keep a copy and get free proof of posting from the post office)

 

If you have it in writing it should also refer to the different military regulations which can then be checked against your service.

[Podzak]

Hi Podzak

 

I can appreciate what your saying but don't get fobbed off by them (does the person you spoke to really know and understand all the forces rules and regs for the response you got?) put it in writing to them what your issue is and ask for full clarification. (remember to keep a copy and get free proof of posting from the post office)

 

If you have it in writing it should also refer to the different military regulations which can then be checked against your service.

 

Thank you.

I'll try to do that.

[stu007]

Hi Podzak

 

Let us know what they say when they get back to you.

[stu007]

Hi Podzak

 

Have they got back to you yet?