Jump to content
style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 1693 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

DB......as per your post...

 

" I have looked at a number of HCEO sites and they all say that the debt can be transferred up as soon as the creditor obtained a judgement "

 

Taken form a well known HCEO website....

 

" As soon as you have the judgment, you can transfer up using Form N293A. With the current economic climate, I would recommend taking action to obtain a judgment immediately you have gone through the various stages of your credit management process without success. "

 

Once you have your judgment or possession order, you need to follow these steps:

 

" Complete the relevant form for what it is you want us to do. If you need any assistance with which is the right way for your case, please call us on xxxxxxxxxxxx

If you are transferring up a judgment for money, you can instruct us online or using a downloadable PDF

Send us a copy of the judgment or order (and also the claim form if it was processed online) and a cheque for the £60 court fee made payable to HMCTS (HM Courts & Tribunals Service)

 

Please also send us as much information as you have about your debtor, as that will greatly help the enforcement officers when they attend to enforce the writ."

 

Okay so far...but have you ever know a judgment creditor to have a copy of the judgment/order quicker than 14 days ? It takes 2 weeks to process the judgment and seal the order.


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/practice_directions/pd_part70.pdf

 

"3.1 If a judgment creditor wishes to enforce a High Court judgment or order in a county court, he must file the following documents in the county court with his application notice or request for enforcement

 

(1) a copy of the judgment or order;

 

(2) a certificate verifying the amount due under the judgment or order;

 

(3) if a writ of execution has previously been issued in the High Court to enforce the judgment or

 

order, a copy of the relevant enforcement officers return to the writ; and

 

(4) a copy of the order transferring the proceedings to the county court.

 

3.2 In this paragraph and paragraph 7

 

(1) enforcement officer means an individual who is authorised to act as an enforcement officer

 

under the Courts Act 2003; and

 

(2) relevant enforcement officer means

 

(a) in relation to a writ of execution which is directed to a single enforcement officer, that officer;

 

(b) in relation to a writ of execution which is directed to two or more enforcement officers, the

 

officer to whom the writ is allocated "

 

 

If I have read that correctly the amount on the writ must be the same as the CCJ

 

"7.1 If a judgment debt or part of it is paid

(1) after the judgment creditor has issued any application or request to enforce it; but

 

(2) before

 

(a) any writ or warrant has been executed; or

 

(b) in any other case, the date fixed for the hearing of the application;

 

the judgment creditor must, unless paragraph 7.2 applies, immediately notify the court in writing.

 

7.2 If a judgment debt or part of it is paid after the judgment creditor has applied to the High Court for a writ of execution, paragraph 7.1 does not apply, and the judgment creditor must instead immediately notify the relevant enforcement officer in writing."

 

It doesn't actually say if they have to cease enforcement but given 3.1.2 refers to the judgement debt being the amount on the writ and that they must notify the HCEO in writing I would think that is being inferred. I'll see if I can speak to someone in the morning

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
From https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/practice_directions/pd_part70.pdf

 

"3.1 If a judgment creditor wishes to enforce a High Court judgment or order in a county court, he must file the following documents in the county court with his application notice or request for enforcement

 

(1) a copy of the judgment or order;

 

(2) a certificate verifying the amount due under the judgment or order;

 

(3) if a writ of execution has previously been issued in the High Court to enforce the judgment or

 

order, a copy of the relevant enforcement officers return to the writ; and

 

(4) a copy of the order transferring the proceedings to the county court.

 

3.2 In this paragraph and paragraph 7

 

(1) enforcement officer means an individual who is authorised to act as an enforcement officer

 

under the Courts Act 2003; and

 

(2) relevant enforcement officer means

 

(a) in relation to a writ of execution which is directed to a single enforcement officer, that officer;

 

(b) in relation to a writ of execution which is directed to two or more enforcement officers, the

 

officer to whom the writ is allocated "

 

 

If I have read that correctly the amount on the writ must be the same as the CCJ

 

"7.1 If a judgment debt or part of it is paid

(1) after the judgment creditor has issued any application or request to enforce it; but

 

(2) before

 

(a) any writ or warrant has been executed; or

 

(b) in any other case, the date fixed for the hearing of the application;

 

the judgment creditor must, unless paragraph 7.2 applies, immediately notify the court in writing.

 

7.2 If a judgment debt or part of it is paid after the judgment creditor has applied to the High Court for a writ of execution, paragraph 7.1 does not apply, and the judgment creditor must instead immediately notify the relevant enforcement officer in writing."

 

It doesn't actually say if they have to cease enforcement but given 3.1.2 refers to the judgement debt being the amount on the writ and that they must notify the HCEO in writing I would think that is being inferred. I'll see if I can speak to someone in the morning

 

You say you received the ccj on the 15th Nov, do you mean it arrived by post on the 15th?

....what date was the actual hearing ?

did you attend the hearing?

did you respond to the claim pack

or was judgment given by default?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Okay so far...but have you ever know a judgment creditor to have a copy of the judgment/order quicker than 14 days ? It takes 2 weeks to process the judgment and seal the order.

 

 

Depends whereabouts you are. My own local County Court will produce documentation within 30 minutes upon request. No reason to think others may not do the same although probably restricted to some of the busier inner city Courts.


Please consider making a small donation to help keep this site running

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Depends whereabouts you are. My own local County Court will produce documentation within 30 minutes upon request. No reason to think others may not do the same although probably restricted to some of the busier inner city Courts.

 

Documentation yes......not the drafting and sealing of a Notice of Judgment.


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You say you received the ccj on the 15th Nov, do you mean it arrived by post on the 15th?

....what date was the actual hearing ?

did you attend the hearing?

did you respond to the claim pack

or was judgment given by default?

 

Actual hearing was 16-Nov, I would have received the notice from court around the 18th/19th Nov. Judgement was given by default

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And the date of your Notice and judgment Confus3me..?


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And the date of your Notice and judgment Confus3me..?

 

Date of judgement is 16-Nov. The enforcement notice was [allegedly] dated 25-Nov. It doesn't say if this was the date of was transferred up, I've never received any documentation in that regard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Date of judgement is 16-Nov. The enforcement notice was [allegedly] dated 25-Nov. It doesn't say if this was the date of was transferred up, I've never received any documentation in that regard.

 

Taking everything into consideration (as posted here) I can see a possibility to set aside There is little doubt the creditor was 'hasty' with enforcement but to your advantage is the fact the Judgment amount is now paid. This is the time to send the SAR I mentioned earlier and start to gather the facts, once you get things together you can come back here and be assured you will get all the help you need to take this to a conclusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you.

 

 

Is there anything I can do to prevent the HCEO revisiting my property?

 

I have paid additional money on the 13-Dec directly to the creditor to cover their extra costs

and they have emailed me to advise they have sent instruction to the HCEO and that the full amount is now paid (rather than "just" the judgement debt)

the creditor has not heard back from the HCEO.

 

 

As this extra payment was after the HCEO visited and added the near £1k fees I'm concerned they will visit on

or after the date specifed on the document put thru the letter box (tomorrow iirc) and try and take my cars, I can do without the worry!!

 

Many thanks all for you help

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thank you. Is there anything I can do to prevent the HCEO revisiting my property?

 

I have paid additional money on the 13-Dec directly to the creditor to cover their extra costs and they have emailed me to advise they have sent instruction to the HCEO a that the full amount is now paid (rather than "just" the judgement debt) the creditor has not heard back from the HCEO. As this extra payment was after the HCEO visited and added the near £1k fees I'm concerned they will visit on or after the date specifed on the document put thru the letter box (tomorrow iirc) and try and take my cars, I can do without the worry!!

 

Many thanks all for you help

 

If the 'extra money' you are referring to was the £111.75 for the cost of the writ you have more than covered your obligation to the Judgment. As the creditor has now confirmed to the HCO the debt has been settled in full, any further 'costs' deemed due to them (HCO ) falls on the creditor.

 

You have the option to go to court and seek a detailed assessment of ALL the costs claimed by them. This yet another reason to send the SAR for without knowing what they are charging you for and what instruction they were given by the creditor you are stuck at first base.

 

Once you have all the info you can come back here get guidance and help free of charge from experienced and knowledgeable people on this forum.

 

Do not be tempted to engage with another forum who offer 'telephone consultation' at a charge, that person has been exposed as a con man and has cost several people thousands of £'s. he has NO legal qualifications and simply talk's the talk but can't walk the walk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I paid the CCJ a amount only during compliance stage.

 

Due to the outstanding £111.75 the creditor told the HCE company to continue action to recover (something I was not aware about).

 

I have no objection with paying £90 to HCEO company and have already paid the creditor an additional £150 to cover the £111.75 and any interest they wanted to charge.

 

What concerns me mostly is that the HCE company is asking for another £822 for stage 1 and 2 as they visited after I thought this matter was closed.

 

Taking aside the important points about when the judgment was transferred up etc I will address the rather complicated issue about the Stage 1 fee (of £190 plus vat) and the Stage 2 fee.

 

When any legislation is passed, there is a legal requirement for every statutory instrument to be supported by another statutory document called an Explanatory Memorandum. This vitally important short document outlines the aim of the legislation (in this case The Taking Control of Goods (Regs) 2014) in simple terms by removing all of the legal jargon. In this respect item 7.3 of the Explanatory Memorandum states the following:

 

 

7.3. Unless a debtor pays in full at the compliance stage, the enforcement agent is obliged to visit the debtor
in every High Court case
in order to take control of goods, thereby triggering the first enforcement stage.

 

If the enforcement agent is then unable to enter into a controlled goods agreement (and has to take control of goods in another manner) or a debtor defaults on a controlled goods agreement, the enforcement stage fee will also apply.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1/pdfs/uksiem_20140001_en.pdf

 

To clarify the position, if payment is not made in full by the end of the compliance stage, this does not mean that a payment arrangement cannot be made (because it can). What must happen, is that a personal visit will have to be made (and with it the Stage 1 fee). This situation is only applicable to judgments transferred up to the High Court.

 

The reason why the personal visit must be made (if payment in full is not made by the end of the compliance stage) is because the High Court Enforcement Agent has a personal obligation to the creditor to 'secure goods'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent PT now let's see what can be done for OP here.


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unconnected posts removed


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see the OP is also seeking advice from the Bailiff Help Forum.

 

Whilst some of the points they raise are valid and confirm what has been said here JasonDWB and the moron brigade still show their lack of knowledge in many areas including fee application, execution costs, the method of sending the NoE, what constitutes service and how interest is charged. You'd think they'd know better by now.

 

Truth be told the OP should seek proper legal advice and whilst bailiff help forums can help, you can be at the hands of unqualified amateurs who talk a lot but understand very little.

 

The OP should also be aware that following some forums advice has cost defendants many thousands in the past as some spurious ill thought out legal applications can have financial consequences. But of course, they never appear on the forum...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I see the OP is also seeking advice from the Bailiff Help Forum.

 

Whilst some of the points they raise are valid and confirm what has been said here JasonDWB and the moron brigade still show their lack of knowledge in many areas including fee application, execution costs, the method of sending the NoE, what constitutes service and how interest is charged. You'd think they'd know better by now.

 

Truth be told the OP should seek proper legal advice and whilst bailiff help forums can help, you can be at the hands of unqualified amateurs who talk a lot but understand very little.

 

The OP should also be aware that following some forums advice has cost defendants many thousands in the past as some spurious ill thought out legal applications can have financial consequences. But of course, they never appear on the forum...

 

It appears you have triggered a drivel explosion from the aforementioned brigade. Best ignored of course.

There is no problem with people running forums where they discuss their particular intersts or beliefs of course, no matter how misunderstood or nonsensical they may be. As you say the problems only arise when they start proffering their "wisdom " as advice to an innocent general public.

No more from me on this.


DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I see the OP is also seeking advice from the Bailiff Help Forum.

 

Whilst some of the points they raise are valid and confirm what has been said here JasonDWB and the moron brigade still show their lack of knowledge in many areas including fee application, execution costs, the method of sending the NoE, what constitutes service and how interest is charged. You'd think they'd know better by now.

 

The OP should also be aware that following some forums advice has cost defendants many thousands in the past as some spurious ill thought out legal applications can have financial consequences. But of course, they never appear on the forum...

 

Worst still, the Guru's 'ring of steel' blindly believe his version of events in court (the case of Abigail B last week is a prime example). The 'Murgatroyd'' case is the same. If they only asked for evidence they would be in for a huge shock!!! The truth would make for far better reading.

 

No 'update' of the Murgatroyd case yet (wasn't she promised a huge payout under the Torts act?).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Worst still, the Guru's 'ring of steel' blindly believe his version of events in court (the case of Abigail B last week is a prime example). The 'Murgatroyd'' case is the same. If they only asked for evidence they would be in for a huge shock!!! The truth would make for far better reading.

 

No 'update' of the Murgatroyd case yet (wasn't she promised a huge payout under the Torts act?).

 

They are all promised huge payouts. Unfortunately the only persons that receive one of these are The Guru and his cronies.


DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seem to have hit a nerve :)

 

But something for the OP to be aware of, as well as the language, abuse and general nature of the posts on there, does make you wonder about the level of education and intelligence on display.

 

Do you really want to take advice ftom these people ? (referring to someone as a retard in this day and age ? disgraceful)


DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

But something for the OP to be aware of, as well as the language, abuse and general nature of the posts on there, does make you wonder about the level of education and intelligence on display.

 

Do you really want to take advice ftom these people ? (referring to someone as a retard in this day and age ? disgraceful)

 

The only person that deserves that comment is the one was made it. He is not deserving of either your time or mine.

Edited by Andyorch
Name removed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The only person that deserves that comment is the one was made it; Mark Bowley.....Mark1960. He is not deserving of either your time or mine.

 

I am not really bothered what they call me on there BA, just dont call me late for diner, as my mum used to say. But I hate that particular term with passion. As you know I was a financial manager at a home in Trafford for some years and heard my friends addressed this way by the likes of him all the time.

Edited by Andyorch
Name removed

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The issues here revolve around the receipt of notices it seems.

By way of clearing away some of the misconceptions.

There is a requirement within the TCE for a notice of enforcment to be sent seven clear days before the commencement of the enforcement stage, which in turn enables the bailiff to charge the stage one fee. This is a mandatory notice and if it is not "given" the rest of the enforcement my not continue.

As a well understood requirement of the legislation it has nothing to do with any previous case, fictional or otherwise.

 

In regard to the authority which is said to be relavant. County court or lower court cases do not confer any authority to subsequent cases.

 

In regards to receiving notices. The statute states that a notice sent by post would be considered as being received, within the normal period for delivery, unless proven otherwise.

This means that the burden of proof(within the bounds of "the balance of probabilities") must lay with the debtor. Previous similar cases cannot provide any authority because the decision of the court will rest completely on the facts, (there is no point of law, it must turn on its own evidence etc.). So the purpose of mentioning another cases existence(however unproven ) is not relavant.

 

The time frame you mention does give the creditor and the EA the opportunity to say that notices were sent in the correct order. This is a problem.

If you consider pursuing this , it will be up-to you to show the court that it was probable the notice was not received by you.

 

As an observation, your case and the problems you are having is exacerbated by those internet groups who preach paying the creditor direct in order to avoid fees.

Now when creditors receive payment which are close to the enforcment date they automatically assume they are trying to avoid fees.

Which results in a zero tolerance approach and genuine claimants like yourself being tarred with the same brush. (these methods have never worked in any case)


DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Christmas present to the annal retentive spell checkers among you :)

 

 

Or is that anal ?


DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...