High court enforcement, CCJ paid

[Confus3me]

Hi there,

 

I'm looking for some advise on below as I'm not really sure what I am supposed to do next.

 

On the 16-Nov-2015 I received a CCJ for £2,958.71. This included all costs and interest and was to be paid forthwith

 

On the 2-Dec-2015 I paid, directly to the creditor £2,958.71

 

I emailed creditor on the 2-Dec-2015 to say I had made payment

 

On the 4-Dec-2015 I called the creditor twice to confirm they had received payment. I was promised a call back. No call was returned.

 

On the 7-Dec-2015 an email was received from creditor saying that the payment of £2,958.71 clears the judgement debt only

and that further costs of £111.75 plus a further sum for sheriff fees and additional costs.

 

 

It then went on to say that as I had failed to respond to the sheriffs initial compliance letter I was liable to additional fees.

I have not received any correspondence from a sheriff at this stage.

 

Today the sheriff attended my property (no one home) stating, in a letter through the door, t

he amount I owe is £3,070.46 (which is the CCJ plus this £111.75 which I don't know what that is for),

interest of £6.49 was added, a £90 compliance stage fee,

a £822 enforcement stage fee, less payment of £2958.71 leaving a balance of £1,030.24.

 

 

They have taken into control two cars and have told me to pay this by 18-Dec-2015.

 

I called the creditor and sheriff today.

I was told that despite paying the CCJ the creditor instructed the sheriff to peruse the debt in full

(I guess the remaining £111.75) which had I been told about it prior to the 5-Dec-2015 I would have paid.

 

So my questions are,

once a CCJ is paid can they legally enforce the debt with no further court order?

and secondly

are the fees appropriate for the outstanding balance of £111.75

or are they entitled to work on the original balance of £3,070.46 despite the majority being paid?.

 

Thanks very much!!!

[citizenB]

As I understand it, you only had to pay whatever was on the Judgment ? So if it asked only for £2,958.71.and this is what you paid, I am not sure why you are being asked for more money. Perhaps have a word with the court ?

[dx100uk]

I'm sure that if you paid the judgement within 28days of it being handed down

they can go bugger off!

 

tell the court what they have done.

 

what was the debt please

consumer credit

or something else?

and by whom was the claim made

 

dx

[Confus3me]

Thanks for replies. I will call the court on Monday.

 

@dx...It was for a utility company (bulkLPG gas).

 

 

I had a budget account with a monthly DD in place which lapsed when I changed bank accounts earlier in the year

and I didn't set it up on the new account at same time wife was taken ill.

That's not to say I shouldn't have dealt with this prior to it going to court

so I only have myself to blame in that sense.

 

 

But this strikes me as inappropriate behaviour by the company in the first place

and then the high court bailiff seem to be a bunch of chancers adding nearly £1k worth of charges

 

 

when I spoke with them explaining I had paid the judgement therefore asking them to justify what were they enforcing today

they spoke about writs being issued and executed and were behaving correctly and it all sounded very complicated.

 

 

I'll certainly look to peruse this with both companies regulators/governing bodies.

[Bailiff Advice]

Hi there,

 

I'm looking for some advise on below as I'm not really sure what I am supposed to do next.

 

On the 16-Nov-2015 I received a CCJ for £2,958.71. This included all costs and interest and was to be paid forthwith

 

On the 2-Dec-2015 I paid, directly to the creditor £2,958.71

 

I emailed creditor on the 2-Dec-2015 to say I had made payment

 

On the 4-Dec-2015 I called the creditor twice to confirm they had received payment. I was promised a call back. No call was returned.

 

On the 7-Dec-2015 an email was received from creditor saying that the payment of £2,958.71 clears the judgement debt only

and that further costs of £111.75 plus a further sum for sheriff fees and additional costs.

 

You really do need to check with the creditor as to what date they transferred the judgment to the High Court.

 

What date was the Notice of Enforcement from the enforcement company?

[Confus3me]

You really do need to check with the creditor as to what date they transferred the judgment to the High Court.

 

What date was the Notice of Enforcement from the enforcement company?

 

I didn't receive such a notice however they claim to have sent one on 25-Nov and I have no reason to doubt that is the case. Would that be the date they transferred it?

 

Many thanks

[Peterbard]

Yes and see if you have a record of the day the payment left your bank.

[Confus3me]

I do. My bank account online shows the payment was made on 2nd Dec and the creditor has confirmed they received payment on 2nd Dec in an email.

 

Payment was made by debit card via creditors online payment system

[AndyOrch]

A forthwith Judgment can be executed immediately ...so from the 17th November on wards ...if you have a copy of the judgment does it refer to a payment date?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Peterbard]

A forthwith Judgment can be executed immediately ...so from the 17th November on wards ...if you have a copy of the judgment does it refer to a payment date?

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Yes indeed it can. The issue is if the judgement sum was paid before the HCEO received the writ from the court.

Before this the debt was not under and enforcment power, so the compliance fee cannot be charged. In fact it is unlikely that the transfer up fee can be reclaimed by the bailiff. as the power, as said had not commenced when the fee was charged.

[AndyOrch]

Yes Im fully aware of the issue and transfer...I want to know if a date had been provided on the judgment notice of payment by xxxxx....if there was then in reality it should never have been transferred up until after that date.

[ploddertom]

 

Yes Im fully aware of the issue and transfer...I want to know if a date had been provided on the judgment notice of payment by xxxxx....if there was then in reality it should never have been transferred up until after that date.

 

 

 

I have seen quite a few where the original CCJ has been awarded but then been transferred up immediately. Sometimes frowned upon by a DJ - particularly if full payment made if debtor not previously aware & Set Aside quite likely to succeeed, therefore then leaving the creditor to pick up the HCEO fees.

[Peterbard]

Sorry didn't see this response. Are we sure that the creditor has to wait for the settlement date on the judgement in respect of the transfer ?

I cannot see any requirement in the HCEO legislation, it just says that the creditor can transfer as soon as he receives the judgement.

I have no doubt that the HCEO would have to wait for the period to expire before commencing enforcement , but cannot find any restrictions regarding the instruction process.

[ploddertom]

As said enforcement may be applied for immediately Judgment has been given. HCEO only carries out instructions given by his Client.

[Peterbard]

Yes pretty much as I thought, i was responding to Andys point about the judgement no being moved up until after the payment date on the judgement.

[AndyOrch]

I surmise " frowned on by District Judges " being the operative word PT.....its a very grey area.....even with a forthwith the given is 28 days...we had one the other day were it was 16 so can vary.

 

If the correct process is followed and successful execution is to be attained...the judgment creditor should allow a little time for payment and then seek an Order to obtain information on the judgment debtor...to decide the best option of execution...however in some instances they may already be aware of the debtors financial position..but most not.

[brassnecked]

As said enforcement may be applied for immediately Judgment has been given. HCEO only carries out instructions given by his Client.

Perhaps it's time to give a grace period say 7 or 14 days before Enforcement can be applied for.

[ploddertom]

I surmise " frowned on by District Judges " being the operative word PT.....its a very grey area.....even with a forthwith the given is 28 days...we had one the other day were it was 16 so can vary.

 

If the correct process is followed and successful execution is to be attained...the judgment creditor should allow a little time for payment and then seek an Order to obtain information on the judgment debtor...to decide the best option of execution...however in some instances they may already be aware of the debtors financial position..but most not.

 

I fully concur with that andyorch.

 

Last time I attended a Hearing at the RCJ the Master raised his eyes at "instant" enforcement and suggested 21 days should have been in order. Came back to bite them as all was overturned, all monies including fees had to be reimbursed & costs awarded against the creditor - payment to be made within 7 days.Served them right for being too impatient.

[Confus3me]

Sorry for late reply been going round in circles on this one.

 

 

Spoke to issuing court who just said they need to see a letter of satisfaction from creditor

and that the HCEO is working on their behalf so it is for them to tell them when to cease collection.

 

From the dates I know the CCJ was transferred up and assigned to HCEO prior to my payment being made.

 

 

The CCJ didn't give a date just said "forthwith"

[HCEOs]

I'm sure that if you paid the judgement within 28days of it being handed down

they can go bugger off! tell the court what they have done. dx

 

As already stated most judgments are payable immediately (forthwith).

 

The £111.75 is the execution costs which are £60 court fee for the Writ and £51.75 fee for the instructing solicitor.

Some new and inexperienced HCEOs do not understand the £51.75 is only applicable by a solicitor

and have been offering it to all creditors in an attempt to have a commercial advantage.

If charged correctly, this fee will all be owed.

 

If you paid after the Notice of Enforcement was issued you will also owe the Compliance Stage fee.

 

If you paid after the first visit then you will owe the Enforcement Stage 1 fee

and dependant upon what else has happened in the case you may also owe Enforcement Stage 2 fee.

 

Who are the HCEO company?

[AndyOrch]

As already stated most judgments are payable immediately (forthwith).

 

 

But that is just the point of concern and discussion here HCEOs ...even forthwith judgments are allowed a grace of 28 days and are not submitted to the Trust Registry until after that period.....so why are they being allowed to transfer it up to HC and execute the judgment prematurely ?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[HCEOs]

I surmise " frowned on by District Judges " being the operative word PT.....its a very grey area.....even with a forthwith the given is 28 days...we had one the other day were it was 16 so can vary.

 

If the correct process is followed and successful execution is to be attained...the judgment creditor should allow a little time for payment and then seek an Order to obtain information on the judgment debtor...to decide the best option of execution...however in some instances they may already be aware of the debtors financial position..but most not.

 

The period to pay will often depend on whether the judgment is defended or by default. Most defended judgments allow 14 days to make payment whereas default judgments are payable immediately.

 

In terms of time, the creditor is not obliged to allow time for payment and neither are they to seek an order to obtain information. This is an additional cost that rarely gives them what they want as many debtors appear lie about their outgoings.

[HCEOs]

But that is just the point of concern and discussion here HCEOs ...even forthwith judgments are allowed a grace of 28 days and are not submitted to the Trust Registry until after that period.....so why are they being allowed to transfer it up to HC and execute the judgment prematurely ?

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy, Forthwith judgments are just that. There is no 28 days grace at present.

[AndyOrch]

" The period to pay will often depend on whether the judgment is defended or by default. Most defended judgments allow 14 days to make payment whereas default judgments are payable immediately. "

 

True...the payment date is set by the claimant in an event of default judgment...

 

CPR 12 Nature of judgment where default judgment obtained by filing a request

12.5

 

(1) Where the claim is for a specified sum of money, the claimant may specify in a request filed under rule 12.4(1) –

(a) the date by which the whole of the judgment debt is to be paid; or

(b) the times and rate at which it is to be paid by instalments.

(2) Except where paragraph (4) applies, a default judgment on a claim for a specified amount of money obtained on the filing of a request, will be judgment for the amount of the claim (less any payments made) and costs –

(a) to be paid by the date or at the rate specified in the request for judgment; or

(b) if none is specified, immediately.

[AndyOrch]

Hi Andy, Forthwith judgments are just that. There is no 28 days grace at present.

 

I would be grateful if you could source me the relevant CPR/Legislation on that point HCEO.

 

Apologies Confus3me for this Hijack on your thread but this point is very relevant to your thread

 

Regards

 

Andy