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    • OK - thank you. I understand the concept of LIP, and the need to keep my claim as simple and straightforward as possible. The legal arguments presented in what I called my skeleton statement were already in the original template I downloaded from this site. In that document I opened with "I am not proposing to set out the sequence of events." Might it be worthwhile for me to include a very brief timeline at that point, which would perhaps then allow it to become my witness statement? Or do you consider two separate documents are required? 
    • BF do you know where the instruction for skeleton has come from? Its just WX + docs. Do you think a skeleton is needed if the only issue in dispute is the legality of the exclusion terms. it seems excessive as well as wx no?   ah yes good point with LIP wx format i didnt think about the LIP judge softhand 
    • And incidentally, the really important part of this is that when you go to court, you are totally thorough and fluent not only with the facts – but with the effect of the legal points you are arguing. The facts are broadly not in dispute but the legal effect for instance of either having insurance or not having insurance. Of requiring insurance – these are the things you need to understand fully. Preparing your court bundle and eventually refining it bit by bit is terrific revision for you and will put you in control but also understanding its content fully and being fluent with its pages in the position of every point you are making is also essential.
    • Skeleton argument/witness statement – it's just a matter of terminology and we don't need to make an issue of it. Actually the three-page document that you have posted first of all and which you have called skeleton argument – is a witness statement which would be attached to the bundle which would be part of your indexed court bundle. I haven't looked at it in detail get or how it supports your claim or how it addresses any of the points made in the defence. I'll have to do that in the next two or three days. But for the moment, it looks fine. You have posted a second document which you are describing as an anonymized witness statement and as far as I can see, I agree with Cagger @jk2054 that much of your circle witness statement is a bit of a waffle and contains irrelevant information that you haven't remedied it in your final version which you say is chopped up. Also, you have received a suggestion of a template from Cagger @jk2054 and although this is going to be confusing for you, I don't think you should bother to use it. It is far too formal. You are a litigant in person and you need the flexibility of fully informing but informal documents which is what we are providing you with. We are suggesting models which we have been using over many cases and they all succeed in some them have been, complemented by the judge for the effectiveness and their clarity. You are litigant in person and one of the things you need to do is you need to have the judge on your side and helping you if necessary and this means that you don't want to start acting or talking or writing as if you are some kind of lawyer – you aren't. Being a litigant personage a certain sort of leverage and you should exploit that. The templates that we are suggesting to you are still not the templates that a completely un-advised person would use but they are still thorough. Stick to them. I suggest that you follow the advice given by the site team here and avoid confusion by switching horses. So for the moment I would suggest that you stick to your original skeleton argument – which follows the format that we have been using on this forum. We do like to see the fully prepared bundle please. I think there should be a next step. Have you got hearing date? Have you got a date for filing your bundle? In fact I have just looked back and I see that your filing date is 8 July. That's fine
    • First of all – as has already been pointed out to you, this is not a defect in the usual way that we understand and so that means that you don't need to rely on your 30 day and six months rights to reject. You can get MOT test done and it turns out to be an MOT failure for any reason then you have the added weight that they have is sold you an unroadworthy vehicle. Who did the existing MOT? I have a sense that it was big motoring world themselves in which case this would give you even greater leverage that if you have an MOT fail and it seems fairly clear that the reason for the failure is something which existed for some time that that would also cast doubt over the MOT provided by big motoring world and this would be even more serious. In any event, the vehicle is not as described and I think that this is an immediate ground for cancelling the policy and even better than that I think it would be a good ground for resisting any deduction made for mileage used – although we will have to deal with as it comes. I have read on Facebook that big motoring world tend to insist on quite a big deduction per mile and I have a sense that they do this because they know they can get away with it because they know their customers are really just happy to get rid of the vehicle any cost. You have told us you've got to a position where they seem to have agreed that you have now drawn a blank and they are being obstructive. Maybe you can lay out a bullet point chronology of exactly what has happened so far – point by point. I don't think you've told us how much you pay for the vehicle and also we want to know a list of the other expenses to which you been put including insurance et cetera and if you cancel the insurance how much you are likely to lose. How long is it not been driven? Why is it not been driven by your son? Didn't you planned for the more expensive insurance premium before you bought it? I have a sneaking suspicion that maybe you bought it and then was surprised at how expensive it was and are now finding a reason to return it. Please be completely level with us and tell us if this forms part of your reason for wanting to return it. We need to know everything – straight dealing – so we can help you in the best way possible. Otherwise we will have surprises sprung on us and we will all be embarrassed and you may lose. In fact I see that we don't know anything about the current all – make, model, mileage, or price paid which have already asked you about. Any reason that we don't have these very basic and obvious details without having to ask for them? You refer to the two new runflat tyres – why? Are these new ones which came with the car or these new ones which you had to buy and if so why did you have to buy them and how much they cost. It will be nice not to have to cross-examine your every detail. It will save a lot of time. Please have a look at this post carefully, discern the questions and address each one please.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.


      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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CRS/Xercise 4 Less Help Needed.

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I desperately need some advice on how to deal with two letters I have received from CRS over the last month.


I joined Exercise 4 Less during my time at University on a rolling contact of £14.99 per month.


I left Hull in August 2014 to move back home after completing my degree, I didn't until November 2014 realise I had forgot to cancel my gym membership, after phoning up to try and cancel my membership over the telephone they informed me I would have to send in a cancellation form. I received the cancellation form at 15:17 on the 3rd of November 2014, which I printed off, filled in and posted the following day.


On the cancellation form it says 'You are required to give one calendar month’s notice as per the terms and conditions of your membership. Please do not cancel your Direct Debit with Harlands as you may incur additional charges.' So I sent off the form and thought they would take one last payment and that would be that.


Until July 2015 when I finally got online banking and realised that I was still paying for my membership via direct debit and cancelled it straight away, although I was annoyed I didn't think asking for a refund or anything as I didn't think it would be worth the hassle.


But then on the 6th of November I got a letter from CRS saying that 'despite previous letters' that I now owed £222.47, yet this is the first contact I have had from anybody about Exercise 4 less since November 2014. So I decided to ignore it.


I have just opened a letter from CRS dated the 26th of November (I have been away) saying 'Following their initial letter' (I thought you'd sent me ones previous ones to the one dated 6th November). Saying I have ten days to pay or their will be legal actions.


Starting to panic what should I do?

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Dont panic... Full of hot air. I think you should recall all the payments from the date you sent the cancellation from.

You are permitted to under the DD guarantee.

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Going to send this to the Managing Director



Dear Mr Wright,


I am having to contact you directly as previous contact with your Hull branch was obviously not actioned.


I joined your gym on a rolling £14.99 per month contract while at university in Hull and found the service and facilities to be excellent.


However when I left Hull to return home after completing my degree in July 2014 it wasn't until 3rd of November that I realised I had forgotten to cancel my gym membership, I rang up the gym and they said that I couldn't cancel my membership over the phone and would have to come into the gym, after explaining how that was no longer possible seeing as I didn't live in the area they sent me a cancellation form via email at 15:17 on the 3rd of November.


I printed the cancellation form off, filled it in and popped it in the post the following day the 4th November 2014.


On the cancellation form it states;


'You are required to give one calendar month’s notice as per the terms and conditions of your membership. Please do not cancel your Direct Debit with Harlands as you may incur additional charges.'



So I didn't cancel my direct debit and thought that one more payment would come out and that would be that, so I forgot about it completely.



Until July 2015 when I finally got online banking and realised that the direct debit was still being taken out of my account which I cancelled immediately.



Skip forward to the 6th of November when I received a letter from CRS (which I note is a trading title of Harlands.) which goes on to state:



CRS Ref No:

Xercise 4 Less Ref:



'We've been employed by Xercise 4 Less as your membership remains in arrears despite previous letters being sent to you.



As a result of this, our fees totalling £102.50 have been added. Therefore your account balance now stands at £222.47.'



I would like to make extremely clear that I have received no such correspondence and this was the first contact about my account I had received from CRS or yourselves. Which is made clear in the following letter from CRS dated the 25th of November which starts with:



'Following our INITIAL letter, we are disappointed that your account with Xercise 4 Less is still in arrears and our fee has not been paid.'



And are now threatening legal action.



I have to say that I am deeply disappointed by this and that my once excellent views of Xercise 4 Less as a gym and a business have been well and truly tarnished.



I would appreciate a breakdown of the aforementioned arrears that I owe so that I can seek further advice before I address this matter.



I have been advised to the recall all the payments from one month after I sent in the cancellation form via the direct debit guarantee totalling £104.93 between January 2015 and July 2015. However I would feel much better about Xercise 4 Less as company if you were willing to refund the money yourselves.



I await your response.



Kind Regards




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Hi Kalanovic and welcome to CAG


Just ignore Harlands/CRS for now. They are powerless and very little except make empty threats.


I wouldn't send that to the MD yet. It's too long and you need to sort out your strategy properly first.


X4Less won't have a clue how the CRS demand is made up and you don't need to know how it's made up. It'll be mostly Harlands/CRS's spurious admin fees but they're not enforceable.


After you posted the Cancellation Form to the gym, you should have paid one more gym fee. The fees taken since then should definitely be reclaimed by you under the DD Guarantee Scheme. Instruct your bank to refund these and they should do this without question.


I'd do this first and, once you've reclaimed the wrongly-taken DD's, let us know and we'll assist in drafting a shorter letter to the gym's HO.



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