Please Help! Red Light Offense!

[mixedspices]

Last week I was travelling home from work on a busy stretch of residential road.

 

 

I came up to a set of green traffic lights at a crossroads,

and had fully crossed the line when the car in front of me hit his brakes.

 

 

as not to block the people in the oncoming lane from turning,

I left a gap between myself and the car in front.

 

 

By the time the cars in front had shuffled up,

the other set of lights were on green so I stayed where I was.

 

 

I could see the other set of lights, but I could no longer see mine.

 

 

I waited until a couple of seconds after the other set of lights had turned red

(assuming ours would have changed to green) and then I proceeded when I knew it was safe.

 

 

There were no cars in the oncoming lane so I couldn't judge when the lights had changed by their movement.

 

I've now been sent a letter highlighting that it's a criminal offense to jump a red light,

and I have to fill in a DVLA form and will get the opportunity to pay a fine instead if I respond within a week.

 

 

My lights must have still been on red when I moved, but I had gone way past them

and there were none on the other side of the crossroads.

 

 

It was a genuine mistake; it's not like I got impatient and just went,

I made sure the crossing traffic had stopped and gave it a couple of seconds as a lot of lights do.

 

 

I want to appeal because I was actually trying to do the right thing by leaving a gap for traffic turning,

rather than just blocking the way like I could have done.

 

I'll probably get told I don't have an argument but I thought it was worth asking. Thanks for reading.

[dx100uk]

how have you been 'caught'

 

 

stills camera

still taken from a video?

 

 

yes I'd contest it and ask for all the photographic evidence

as it will prove you case.

 

 

dx

[mixedspices]

Thanks for the response dx

 

It says "This allegation is supported by photographic and/or video evidence", though no stills were printed onto the letter.

 

I suppose in some ways I am pleading ignorance (which understandably doesn't usually get you anywhere) but as I said, I couldn't see my lights and had to make a judgement that they would be green based on the crossing lights having turned red.

[renegadeimp]

They won't give you the evidence unless you ask for them. Chances are the light was red and it saw you drive on.

[Nimrod205]

Red light cameras do not trigger unless you crossed the stop line AFTER the lights had changed to red. I would suggest that your position was captured by CCTV.

[Raykay]

They won't give you the evidence unless you ask for them.

 

 

The OP is not entitled to any evidence until the case is dealt with at court and a Not Guilty plea is taken.

 

 

The general advice is to ask for 'any photographs to help identify the driver', any mention of the word 'evidence' may result in nothing being sent.

[stu007]

Since this is CCTV have a read of this link from the Information Commissioners Office (ICO): https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/cctv/

 

https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/cctv/

[Raykay]

Since this is CCTV have a read of this link from the Information Commissioners Office (ICO): https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/cctv/

 

https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/cctv/

 

That does not apply to Law Enforcement, which is covered by the Regulation of Investigative Powers Act 2000.

[topcat1802]

I always thought that if all 4 wheels were over the stop line that you were allowed to continue as you had already passed the lights when hey turned to red. The problem with may sets of traffic lights is that there is only one set - at the stop line, and once you are past you cannot see the lights.

[mikeymack2002]

You could argue that you had already passed the line at the lights. Therefore you carried on as you could not see the lights on your side.

 

But if your way was blocked you should have waited at your side of the junction before moving on. Either way hard to disprove unless you see the full evidence...

[mixedspices]

But if your way was blocked you should have waited at your side of the junction before moving on.

 

Firstly, thank you all for your responses. I've only just had chance to come back to the thread.

 

In regards to how I was caught and having been back through the route today, I believe it was a CCTV camera as there are no safety cameras anywhere.

 

Just to comment on the quote above, I was already halfway over the line when the person in front braked (I couldn't see ahead of them), and by the time I had reacted, I ended up fully over the line.

[CrappoMan]

If you were fully over the line BEFORE the lights turned red, and they turned red whilst you were past the line while waiting to cross the junction, you should plead not guilty. The reason is because the lights and the line are behind you and cannot be seen.

You should have waited until it was safe to proceed, then done so.

If you crossed the junction in an unsafe manner, you may be guilty of a CD10-30 offence, which may have been caught on video.

[renegadeimp]

If you were fully over the line BEFORE the lights turned red, and they turned red whilst you were past the line while waiting to cross the junction, you should plead not guilty. The reason is because the lights and the line are behind you and cannot be seen.

You should have waited until it was safe to proceed, then done so.

If you crossed the junction in an unsafe manner, you may be guilty of a CD10-30 offence, which may have been caught on video.

 

If the lights were amber and about to turn to red when you crossed, then that wont wash. Amber means stop unless you are too close to the lights to slow down and stop safely. If there was queing traffic ahead, then you cant say the road was clear and you were at the point of no return, as there would be slow moving traffic and you should have been prepared to stop early.

[mixedspices]

If you were fully over the line BEFORE the lights turned red, and they turned red whilst you were past the line while waiting to cross the junction, you should plead not guilty. The reason is because the lights and the line are behind you and cannot be seen.

You should have waited until it was safe to proceed, then done so.

If you crossed the junction in an unsafe manner, you may be guilty of a CD10-30 offence, which may have been caught on video.

 

Thanks for responding.

 

As I said, I waited until the crossing set of lights had turned red, and that the cars had stopped. Then when I assumed ours would have turned green, I proceeded. I've never had any previous convictions, I am a mindful and considerate driver - I wouldn't have risked causing an accident (or being caught doing something I shouldn't) just because I was being impatient.

 

If the lights were amber and about to turn to red when you crossed, then that wont wash. Amber means stop unless you are too close to the lights to slow down and stop safely. If there was queing traffic ahead, then you cant say the road was clear and you were at the point of no return, as there would be slow moving traffic and you should have been prepared to stop early.

 

The lights weren't amber, they were green, and green for about 10 seconds after I'd crossed the stop line and was sitting, having left a space for people to turn in front of me.

 

The cars also weren't moving particularly slowly (25mph-ish). It is difficult to explain without a diagram but everyone came to a sudden holt because of further traffic lights about 100 metres down the road.

[renegadeimp]

If they were green and the traffic was stationary or queued/very slow moving, you should have stopped at the line and waited.

 

As you approached the lights, you should have been aware they were green forcacwhile ( and so likely to change soon) and aware of traffic ahead.

 

At least this is what you are taught during lessons, and what you have to adhere to on your test; as well as what they would say in court to you.

[mixedspices]

If they were green and the traffic was stationary or queued/very slow moving, you should have stopped at the line and waited.

 

As you approached the lights, you should have been aware they were green forcacwhile ( and so likely to change soon) and aware of traffic ahead.

 

At least this is what you are taught during lessons, and what you have to adhere to on your test; as well as what they would say in court to you.

 

The traffic wasn't stationery or moving 'slowly' - as I said, it was moving at around 25mph (in a 30) so almost at 'top speed'.

 

I don't understand what you mean by your second paragrah. If you're talking about mine, they hadn't been green for very long (hence me saying they stayed green for some time after I had come to a stop over the line).

 

I couldn't see the traffic that far ahead; the point at which I realised there wasn't enough room on the other side of the junction, I stopped immediately.

 

The car in front was half way across the junction when he suddenly braked, and he stopped about in front of the cars waiting at their stop line going across.

 

I was crossing the line at this point, so I braked, as I said, so as to not block the road for those wanting to turn. I could have not, I could have stopped right in the middle of the junction behind the car in front, stopping people from turning and moved up with traffic.

 

I don't understand why you seem to be trying to pick holes and make out I was pushing my way across when I should have stayed at the junction? I did stay at my own junction, but over the line, which is the closest I could get under the circumstances - which is what I would have been taught to do on my lessons.

[renegadeimp]

If you did what you say, and the junction by the lights was clear when you went through ( you said previously you stopped as traffic was turning or stopped ), then simply plead not guilty and put your case forward.

 

If they can show your car past the line when the lights were on red, then it will show the car in front of you, who would have been blocking the junction ahead of you. As he would be blocking it as he would be at LEAST 2 car lengths ahead of the lights, you could have continued moving to clear the junction. If he was ahead of you, and stayed there when lights were red, he would have been blocking the junction AND be summoned as he was ahead of the lights too AND causing an obstruction. Sadly though, youll never know if he got caught.

 

As for picking holes, call it what you want. Im simply going by what you said, what you would have been caught for, what highway code and driving laws say, and also what a half decent solicitor will challenge you on in court should you decide to go there. Theres always a chance that they will offer nothing in way of evidence, or decide its not in the best interests of the public to prosecute, but those chances are slim.

 

Take it how you will. If you challenge it, you need to be very prepared as they will have people who specialise in this, and know the ins and outs of the law.

 

Also, can you post a google streetview link so we can see this junction. It will help give much clearer advice if we can see the full layout, so to see if the junction was being blocked, or what was happening.