Jump to content


determindator

Conservative Leader ill-judged insult unworthy of a Prime Minister

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 1319 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

This is reported tday. David Cameron should have been statesmanlike. Instead he was partisan. His remark to Tory MPs that 'you should not be walking through the lobbies (i.e voting) with Jeremy Corbyn and a bunch of terrorist sympathisers' was unworthy of a British Prime Minister. BTW I think a militant exchange.

 

One quote made it was idiotic and crass to say that. It demeans the reality of war.

 

The insult not just aimed at JC but anybody who expresses doubt about the wisdom of bombing Syria. It applies to John Baron, a former British army officer who served in Northern Ireland when terrorism was at it's height. Mr Baron warned that in proposing this action, Britain risked repeating the errors of the past,and was setting out on a 'tragic and misguided path once more'.

 

The office of labour MP Stella Creasy who was undecided ahead of the vote, was yesterday surrounded by a gang of thugs, forcing Ms Creasy to leave the Commons Chamber repeatedly to check that her staff were safe.

 

Polls last night suggested around half of all British voters are opposed to the military adventure in Syria. If true, David Cameron just damned more than 20 million of his fellow citizens as 'terrorist sympathisers' on the basis they have not been convinced by his sales pitch?

 

For that matter, the Prime Minister's remarks would also apply to the Daily Mail which warned last week that David Cameron has not yet convincingly made the case for war. Indeed, the epithet 'terrorist sympathiser' might also be applied to the many experts who are entirely unconvinced by David Cameron's claim that there are 70,000 moderate Syrians ready and willing to join the fight against IS on the ground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it shows the true (lack of) quality of the man that he is so ignorant when he believes (correctly) that he is winning a vote based on rhetoric and righteous indignation at the Paris attack rather than honesty, sense and evidence.

 

.. and the lack of any sort of worth in the labour leadership that this was allowed to occur so easily.


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I take great comfort that he was condemned during the days in parliament from all sides of the house


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

 

The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I must admit that its possible there are no civilian casualties as a result of the British air strikes (rather than since the British started air strikes) as they have bombed sites repeatedly bombed by the Russians and Americans over more than 6 months and which have been repeatedly reported completely destroyed.

 

They probably haven't killed anybody or even destroyed anything not long since already destroyed.

 

Not even on a par with the 118 radicals probably killed by the American air strikes over the last year as reported on the BBC.

What a farce for the finest pilots in the world.


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing

 

 

attributed to Edmund Burke, I think.


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
attributed to Edmund Burke, I think.

 

Not sure if you are referring to the pilots and UK effectively doing nothing there citizenB?

or that whatever the Americans, and now the UK are doing is certainly ineffective at best. and harmful to the stated goals in actuality.

 

I think we all agree that something needs to be done, but some things are actually worse than nothing.

 

Perhaps

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing,

but what is done, defines whether Good Men should support or oppose you.


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing,

 

So that means the police should sit around and do nothing when someone has been murdered and by doing that there will no longer be any murders. What bunk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So that means the police should sit around and do nothing when someone has been murdered and by doing that there will no longer be any murders. What bunk.

 

I have no idea why you would come to the conclusion you have there Filcin.

 

I think we all agree that something needs to be done, but some things are actually worse than nothing.

 

A better example of my point would be:

 

Someone is being attacked by a bearded bloke -

the police

are near enough to intervene saving the person

(good action - support)

 

rather than

 

The police

- ban people walking on the street

- put a curfew on bearded people

- watch the assault on CCTV while sitting back having a tea break

- or go for a tea break

(all bad actions - oppose)


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So that means the police should sit around and do nothing when someone has been murdered and by doing that there will no longer be any murders. What bunk.

 

Courtesy of Yes Prime Minister, I offer the Politicians' Syllogism:

 

1) We must do something.

2) This is something.

3) Therefore we must do this.


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING. EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing,"

 

I see that now having read it again. But surely distance isn't a factor. If we can be their within the hour from Cyprus, then we are nearby and can help to stamp out the evil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Conservative Leader ill-judged insult unworthy of a Prime Minister

 

 

=

 

Not fit for purpose come to mind!


:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing,"

 

I see that now having read it again. But surely distance isn't a factor. If we can be their within the hour from Cyprus, then we are nearby and can help to stamp out the evil.

 

Sure, I agree that distance isn't really the issue here. I also agree that if there were something we could do to "stamp out the evil", and if the consequences of doing that (whatever it might be) would not be worse than the original problem, then we should seriously consider that action.

 

This, of course, is why people find Cameron's remark objectionable: it's offensive and reductionist. Those of us who oppose the present government's policy do not do so because we want to see ISIS/Daesh succeed. We oppose it because we believe it will be ineffective, dangerous and, ultimately, will create more problems than it solves. Now, reasonable people can disagree on these points: that's why we have debates on forums, in pubs, in Parliament, and so on. But reasonable people cannot go around accusing their opponents of being terrorist sympathisers. Accusations like that are the antithesis of reason.


PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING. EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree, it was wrong of Cameron to suggest anyone who opposed military action was a terrorist sympathiser. IMHO it was no different to those caggers who have accused those who support UKIP of being racist !!

 

However, back to the subject in hand - what is the answer, if not to take military action ? Sanctions and diplomatic intervention didn't work ?

 

How are you going to find any middle ground against a dictator who is prepared to mustard bomb his own people or a group of ninja thugs who want to introduce a perverse version of Islam not only in their own country, but across the world, by using violence ?

 

I am not quite sure why Russia has sided with Assad (sp) - he appeared to be doing quite nicely in emptying Syria of those people he didn't like by forcing them to flee !

 

IS needs to be cut off from its suppliers of financing and arms.

 

Perhaps the answer is/was to surround Syria so no one could get out/in and let IS and Assad battle it out then have the outside alliance sort out the winner of that battle ?


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

However, back to the subject in hand - what is the answer, if not to take military action ? Sanctions and diplomatic intervention didn't work ?

Quite right, they didn't.

But there are levels of intervention, and backing a dictator into a corner with no-where to go except stand and fight is worse (and has proven worse for everyone) than continuing a long drawn out sanctions and politacal pressure process.

 

How are you going to find any middle ground against a dictator who is prepared to mustard bomb his own people or a group of ninja thugs who want to introduce a perverse version of Islam not only in their own country, but across the world, by using violence ?

 

Why would Assad gas his 'own people' when he was winning until that was used as an excuse for more external intervention

 

It has of course been reported by monitors and experts that the radicals (never ever called free syrians in this context) have been using gas - not only old stockpile Syrian gas, but stuff made by themselves.

 

I am not quite sure why Russia has sided with Assad (sp) - he appeared to be doing quite nicely in emptying Syria of those people he didn't like by forcing them to flee !

 

and how many have been fleeing from the US led intervention?

10x 100x 1000x 10,000x ?

 

IS needs to be cut off from its suppliers of financing and arms.

 

Perhaps the answer is/was to surround Syria so no one could get out/in and let IS and Assad battle it out then have the outside alliance sort out the winner of that battle ?

Largely agree here although the west should NEVER have interfered militarily in the first place causing this escalation - so should just get out..

If not that, Now how does NATO attack its own members and allies who are doing the opposite?


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
attributed to Edmund Burke, I think.

 

On the subject of how maybe we are perceived, I believe a French response given 'it was a nice gesture' thought to be said in a sarcy way. Who knows, no official report of it on the net.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...