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Mister L

Question regarding 'paying up front.'

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Hi, I searched out this forum with a specific issue in mind.

 

I have ordered a new garage door, made to measure, all steel insulated, secure locking etc. I paid 50% deposit on confirming the order, the total value of which is approx £1650. The company are demanding that I pay the balance before they will come and fit the door. I have baulked at this as it leaves me with no bargaining power should the installation or goods be below standard, but I have stated that I will pay immediately the fitting is complete to my satisfaction. They just keep repeating the mantra of 'our standard terms and conditions', and have cancelled the fitting which was scheduled for tomorrow.

 

Just a few points: the only notification of these terms I recieved was by post after I paid the deposit. They stated that it was on the surveyors order form, but he just recited the tech specs and asked me to sign it to say they were correct.

 

I believe that in legal terms any contract has to be judged as 'fair' to both parties. As their imposed terms leave them holding the money and the goods, I don't think that this principle is being upheld in this case.

 

One hears numerous cases of consumers being let down or worse after 'paying up front' and although I may be able to fall back on the legal system, I think it is far more prudent to be wary prior to parting with the money. I have showd my good will and commitment to the contract by paying the deposit but it would appear the other party want to have things all their own way.

 

Any thoughts, advice or suggestions from an experienced and knowledgeable audience would be appreciated -Thanks

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Pay the balance by credit card and use section 75 as protection ?

 

Thread moved to General Consumer Issues.

 

Regards

 

Andy


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Thanks Andy, I was aware of credit card protection, (although not in so much detail until I just Googled s75!) but I shouldn't have to RELY on such devices. I believe that the other party are being unreasonable in their demands and their terms of business are unfair in asking me to bear all the risk in the transaction. Also if I do rely on s75, aren't the credit card insurance underwriters (therefore ultimately the cc users) footing the bill?

 

(Donation on it's way.)

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Thanks Andy, I was aware of credit card protection, (although not in so much detail until I just Googled s75!) but I shouldn't have to RELY on such devices. I believe that the other party are being unreasonable in their demands and their terms of business are unfair in asking me to bear all the risk in the transaction. Also if I do rely on s75, aren't the credit card insurance underwriters (therefore ultimately the cc users) footing the bill?

 

(Donation on it's way.)

 

Well if that's their T&Cs of business you don't give them your business and shop elsewhere.

 

Section 75 basically means that the payment is reversed ...no underwriters.

 

Regards

 

Andy


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Can you name the company please Mr L ??

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As I am still trying to deal with this issue in a constructive manner I am not naming the other party at the moment. Although telephone conversations have failed to deliver any meaningful response I am in the process of e-mailing them, and feel that I should allow them to address my concerns prior to naming them on a public forum which may show up on Google or the like.

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As I am still trying to deal with this issue in a constructive manner I am not naming the other party at the moment. Although telephone conversations have failed to deliver any meaningful response I am in the process of e-mailing them, and feel that I should allow them to address my concerns prior to naming them on a public forum which may show up on Google or the like.

 

Would you like to tell me in a private message and then we can do checks on them ?

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Will you be refunded the 50% deposit ?


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I very much doubt I'll get the deposit back. Due to the length of time it would take to arrange an alternative supplier I think I'm going to have to risk it and rely on the CCA for any shortfalls. I will communicate my misgigvings via feedback websites, to ensure others are aware of the situation. I just think that it is a very unprofessional and unfair way of going about business.

 

Thank you all for your help and advice, it is very much appreciated.

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Did you pay the deposit by Credit Card ? If so, then perhaps you could also rely on Section 75 for that to be returned.


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

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1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

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5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

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2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

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5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I doubt it. I believe it would be difficult to prove that the T & C's were only formally transmited to me after I paid the deposit. (Yes, I'll be more careful in future!) E-mails that were allegedly sent to me never arrived in my inbox, and the written quotation that I finally recieved has no date on it. As I said above I will have to take the risk. It will probably be ok, but I feel that ALL customers are being unfairly treated due to a few non-payers in the past. I will make my feelings felt via an e-mail following the installation, and possibly via Trustpilot or the like as a warning to others. I will feedback here in due course. Thanks.

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After installation be sure to go over it with a fine toothcomb, photograph any problems and make them come back should you find any.

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an unfair contract cannot be enforced. Your problem is the size of the deposit makes any other negotiation almost impossible. I can understand to a point that a company that makes bespoke items need to take a hefty deposit to ensure you do continue and to help their cashflow but thier communications after the event would get most people's backs up and will cost them in the long run.

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OK folks. I had the door fitted which was not a brilliant job. The quality is not outstanding, and the fitter wasn’t too aware of the principles of fitting a door into a hole. I believe his mate was a recent starter who didn’t seem too impressed with his new employers. I will probably end up refitting the door myself.

I think there would be little to gain for a lot of effort in calling the contract into dispute and trying to gain compensation. As ericsbrother states above, an unfair contract is unenforceable, but once they have received full payment it is up to me to prove unfairness in order to gain recompense. I really don’t have the time to deal with such rigmarole.

 

I mentioned to the fitter that I was far from happy about having to pay upfront, and he remarked that ‘lots of people are unhappy about that.’ This comment left me thinking that obfuscation and ‘being economical with the truth’ are deliberate tactics used in order to secure payment and reduce the potential for post installation disputes. Most people will only order one or two garage doors in their lifetime, so what have they to lose?

I have decided that the best I can do allow others to benefit from my experience via consumer review sites.

I would appreciate information on such sites so that I could submit my review to them.

The review sites I have so far are: Trustpilot and revoo.

BTW the company is the Garage Door Centre in Wellingborough.

 

Thanks for all the advice and comments.

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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?84-reviews

 

You could write a review on CAG using the link above. There are different sections on the right hand side - choose the most appropriate and review away :)


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Be nice if you told us what it was called or even better provided a link ?

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Be nice if you told us what it was called or even better provided a link ?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?144-add-new-section_1


 
 

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

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Be nice if you told us what it was called or even better provided a link ?

 

Apologies for that, I am not familiar with your forum etiquette, layout etc.

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Full text of my review:

 

Re: The Garage Door Centre, Wellingborough.

AVOID THIS COMPANY!

BE AWARE THAT ONCE YOU HAVE PAID A DEPOSIT, THE GARAGE DOOR CENTRE’S TERMS AND CONDITIONS DICTATE THAT YOU MAKE FULL PAYMENT PRIOR TO THEM INSTALLING THEIR PRODUCT. THIS LEAVES THE CUSTOMER RETAINING ALL RISKS IN THE TRANSACTION, WITH LITTLE LEVERAGE IF THE PRODUCTS AND SERVICES ARE BELOW EXPECTATION, WHICH MINE WERE. I believe this to be an unfair contract. The company carry no quality or trade assurances.

I ordered a bespoke door as part of improvement works on my home. The delivery time was given as 4-6 weeks with a 50% deposit paid, which I believe to be fair when ordering such items.

The sales ’consultant’ stated that he had sent me e-mails containing details of the purchase; I never received them. After having confirmed the details over the phone, I paid the deposit by credit card. The only time I was openly informed of their requirement to pay in full prior to installation was on receipt of an undated quotation by post after this transaction.

I raised my concerns with the requirement for full pre-payment with the sales ‘consultant,’ stating that I thought the terms to be unfairly biased toward the supplier leaving the customer with little means of redress in the event of unsatisfactory service. I suggested that the supplier either regarded all customers as being fraudulent in their intentions, or that they lacked faith in the quality of goods and services they supplied.

He was unable to give any responses to the points raised, so I asked to speak to someone who could. I subsequently received a second hand reply from a sales manager stating that ‘rules are rules,’ which hardly qualifies as an intelligent and considered response to a customer’s genuine concerns. When I refused to make the payment until the door was installed, the installation was cancelled, leaving me at risk of losing my deposit. Essentially, I feel I had been deceived and bullied into paying up front.

I also mentioned the prepayment demand to the fitter, who casually remarked that ‘lots of people are unhappy about that.’ This leads me to believe that obfuscation and being ‘economical with the truth’ are standard practices with this company.

With regards the door itself, it is not of outstanding quality considering the price paid. The handle is not very substantial. On fitting, there was a gap left over the head of the door through which daylight can be seen, which somewhat negates the benefit of buying an insulated door. The fitter worked to the instructions he had been given, but did not recognise the issue with the gap until after fitting the frame. (It would not have been possible to refit the door frame to alleviate this, as there is no facility for fine adjustment when fitting the frame, i.e. after the brickwork has been drilled. ) This could also indicate that the opening had been mis-measured. I mentioned the gap as a rider on the comments section of the feedback sheet. There was no response to this from the company. I will probably have to re- fit the door myself.

At one stage the fitter tried to suggest that the lintel was out of level, which I proved not to be the case. I had worked with the bricklayer when it was installed to ensure it was true.

All in all, I believe that this is a high pressure sales driven operation, with little concern for the customer or quality of service. USE THEM AT YOUR PERIL.

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