Labour party summed up in one stupid, embarassing speech.

[Conniff]

A daughter of Chinese intellectuals, who spent time in Chinese labour camps under Chairman Mao's regime during her childhood, says it was chilling to hear John McDonnell quoting from the Little Red Book.

 

 

The shadow chancellor quoted from Chairman Mao's propaganda text in his response to George Osborne's Autumn Statement.

 

"It was chilling for me because it reminded me of the memories I had in childhood...of public denunciation meetings when, before sentences are passed on to someone who is either condemned to death or jail sentence, [there was] always someone quoting from Mao's Little Red Book a passage which then will be used to condemn these people," author Diane Wei Liang told the Today programme.

 

"It's not funny for the millions of people who died during Mao's regime, nor for those who lived through those times," she said.

 

 

 

 

 

For the full article : - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34931128

Edited November 26, 2015 by citizenB

[determindator]

This article explains what was said, more towards the bottom of article. Mr McD was implying George O etc were cosying up to the Chinese, I believe showing what he thought about human rights in China. Not like ours.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/25/john-mcdonnell-mao-little-red-book-dirty-trick

 

George O didn't expect the backlash for the tax credits debacle. He had to reverse it as Labour would have. It would have been the tipping point for the Cons. They're under pressure now to do the right thing and build more affordable homes to buy and rent, as they know Labour will and the people are watching to see if they're telling porkies.

[unclebulgaria67]

This article explains what was said, more towards the bottom of article. Mr McD was implying George O etc were cosying up to the Chinese, I believe showing what he thought about human rights in China. Not like ours.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/25/john-mcdonnell-mao-little-red-book-dirty-trick

 

George O didn't expect the backlash for the tax credits debacle. He had to reverse it as Labour would have. It would have been the tipping point for the Cons. They're under pressure now to do the right thing and build more affordable homes to buy and rent, as they know Labour will and the people are watching to see if they're telling porkies.

 

Agree, but if Labour did win in 2020, the world is unlikely to change. China will become the biggest economy and UK will have to deal with them. But the Tories appear to be backing one horse and seeing Chinese investment as the saviour of the UK economy in the years ahead. Many Tories also want to leave the EU just as the EU may agree a trade deal with the US.

[etoc2001]

The fact that the newly prominent Labour front benchers seem inept at times in the house or the media is surely down to their years in the wilderness? After a while, if they start spouting inane soundbites like their more experienced colleagues, they will then be lambasted for being boring..

[Surfer01]

Agree, but if Labour did win in 2020, the world is unlikely to change. China will become the biggest economy and UK will have to deal with them. But the Tories appear to be backing one horse and seeing Chinese investment as the saviour of the UK economy in the years ahead. Many Tories also want to leave the EU just as the EU may agree a trade deal with the US.

 

The Chinese economy is not as sound as it appears although it is still good in comparison to many Western nations.

[unclebulgaria67]

The Chinese economy is not as sound as it appears although it is still good in comparison to many Western nations.

 

Yes they reckon that the real growth rate is 3%, which is half of what is announced. There is also a lot of hidden debts within the shadow Banks.

 

Some fear that the Chinese economy may grind to a halt, as they struggle to make adjustments. Workers still face having to relocate to major cities in China and wages have increased. There is also more demand for health and safety rights for workers etc.

[andydd]

For the full article : - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34931128

 

But John was implying that maybe we shouldnt be cosying up to China in the way Osborne appears to be doing ?, what Mao did or said is irrelevant now BUT the current government can influence modern day China when it comes to making deals etc

[determindator]

The fact that the newly prominent Labour front benchers seem inept at times in the house or the media is surely down to their years in the wilderness? After a while, if they start spouting inane soundbites like their more experienced colleagues, they will then be lambasted for being boring..

 

What years in the wilderness, they're making the Cons jump and for the right reasons.

 

Have a little look at this http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/uktable.htm

[citizenB]

What years in the wilderness, they're making the Cons jump and for the right reasons.

 

Have a little look at this http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/uktable.htm

 

That is very interesting determindator - did you notice how the population turnout has decreased considerably since 1950 !

[think about it]

Agree, but if Labour did win in 2020, the world is unlikely to change. China will become the biggest economy and UK will have to deal with them. But the Tories appear to be backing one horse and seeing Chinese investment as the saviour of the UK economy in the years ahead. Many Tories also want to leave the EU just as the EU may agree a trade deal with the US.

 

Lets be frank here, it really matters not who wins each election. We carry on in a freefall towards something or other and all successive governments seem to do is make the ride more uncomfortable for the population. Is five years really long enough to make a positive difference in anything? I don't believe it is, we just seem to career from one near disaster to another and get sweet-talked for 12 months every five years into thinking that the latest etonian is capable of doing anything more than wiping his own ar$e.

[etoc2001]

Quite a few people are saying that Labour is rerunning the 'Militant Tendency' of the '80s, with deselection of opponents etc.

[determindator]

Quite a few people are saying that Labour is rerunning the 'Militant Tendency' of the '80s, with deselection of opponents etc.

 

I believe when you said in a previous post 'in the wilderness' you must have been referring to the above. I wonder how the Conservatives deal with opponents.

 

We wait and see how this week unfolds.

[stu007]

I feel what was said in that article is very relevant, I couldn't understand why any MP whether in jest would quote from such a book.

 

This is the leader that would bring our armed forces back and only use them for humanitarian work and to use diplomacy to solve issues but quotes from a book of a mass murderer who's book was quoted from to carryout punishments, maiming, torture, murder.

 

Can I trust a Leader that says they stand for this but quotes from another such a book???

[andydd]

I feel what was said in that article is very relevant, I couldn't understand why any MP whether in jest would quote from such a book.

 

This is the leader that would bring our armed forces back and only use them for humanitarian work and to use diplomacy to solve issues but quotes from a book of a mass murderer who's book was quoted from to carryout punishments, maiming, torture, murder.

 

Can I trust a Leader that says they stand for this but quotes from another such a book???

 

Why not, he was implying that Osbourne was quick to 'jump into bed' with a country that still is communist/Maoist, totally relevant IMO.

[unclebulgaria67]

Politics really does not sit well on a Consumer site. Most political debate is splitting hairs and discussing issues that you can do nothing about. This Tory government is wanting Chinese investment, as they won't borrow to invest themselves and presumably Chinese money is more attractive for several reasons. Such as it may be at a cheaper rate of interest and possibly more long term than other credit providers. Also having good trading relations with a country that will overtake the US economy as the worlds biggest may be good for the UK. However, there are negative issues that come with it and the Tories are not concerned enough by these.

 

Old Labour (pre Blair) was more in favour of the state, with government borrowing to invest in infrastructure and believing this was better for the UK in the long run. The UK is then more in control over important resources and can use this control to benefit the economy. If you have foreign companies owning so much, they are more likely to be serving the interests of their shareholders mainly based in another country.

 

I cannot understand Tories being against UK state investment, but pro Chinese state investment in the UK. This was the point being made by McDonnell in a clumsy way.

[andydd]

Yes I agree, we only have a few MPs who do anything positive for consumers, Stella Creasy being a great example. Lib Dems do make noises about it but didnt do much when in (shared) power.

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes I agree, we only have a few MPs who do anything positive for consumers, Stella Creasy being a great example. Lib Dems do make noises about it but didnt do much when in (shared) power.

 

Here is an idea. Government borrows £20 billion while interest rates low and sets up a house building investment fund, which people can buy bonds in to top up the fund, which will be guaranteed. When the houses are built, they will be offered on a rent or rent to buy basis, with this being reinvested into the fund. Bond holders would get a dividend based on the performance of the fund.

 

This would surely result in tens of thousands of houses being built, with investors having a safe place to put their money, with a dividend payment based on results of the fund,

[Conniff]

But it's borrowing, the thing Labour seems to like doing and dang the consequences, which is why this country is in the state it is in at present.

We are £1.5 trillion in debt and adding to that debt is not the way to go.

 

This country either doesn't have the companies with the funds to invest or are not confident in lending which is why the investment offer has gone abroad and been taken up by

China.

I also think that the warming of trade relation could be that there is a strong belief the referendum with take us out of Europe and he want's to edge his bets now so we don't

come crashing down should that happen.

As for communism and human rights etc, there is nothing we can do about that and cutting off your nose to spite your face is definitely not the way to go.

[unclebulgaria67]

The Tories have borrowed more since May 2010, than Labour have ever done. The economy was doing well before the Banking crash and Tories agreed with the spending levels. The economy was growing before May 2010 and whoever won the election would have had to deal with the deficit.

 

Borrowing to invest would happen anyway, as the Tories are doing via various means e.g new PFI, help to buy, Outside investment including Chinese. It is still government entering into credit arrangements, but it is not a big lump of debt on the current accounts.

[andydd]

Blah blah Labour borrowed too much, probably the biggest myth ever that people are quick to believe in, we all borrow in our lives otherwise most of us would be living in mud huts n riding horse n carts .

[Conniff]

Of course borrowing has increased to keep up with the raises in all the tax credits that Brown introduced. Tax credit would cost the country only £1.1 billion said Brown but are now at the staggering rate of £30 billion.

 

Labour always has been a borrowing government, that is the only way then know of raising money.

[Conniff]

Blah blah Labour borrowed too much, probably the biggest myth ever that people are quick to believe in, we all borrow in our lives otherwise most of us would be living in mud huts n riding horse n carts .

 

Yes we all borrow and we all end up on sites like this asking for help.

[unclebulgaria67]

Blah blah Labour borrowed too much, probably the biggest myth ever that people are quick to believe in, we all borrow in our lives otherwise most of us would be living in mud huts n riding horse n carts .

 

Exactly ! Even wealthy politicians like Cameron take out mortgages, so they can claim back relevant amounts under parliament rules. Cameron, Osborne and quite a few MP's ( probably some Labour) were born into very wealthy families and to a certain extent they have benefitted from the endeavours of their families past and present. They will have borrowed money to create the wealth they currently enjoy. Cameron is reported to be related to slave traders and apparently some of the family wealth is still linked to this. I don't blame him for the actions of his ancestors, but mention it, as the way in which wealth is created can be a difficult issue.

 

It seems to me to be sensible for UK government to borrow to invest while interest is low to equip the country with the resources it needs. If people cannot get mortgages or pay expensive private rents, then they claim housing benefit or may even be homeless. There are working people who are living on the streets at the moment.

[unclebulgaria67]

Of course borrowing has increased to keep up with the raises in all the tax credits that Brown introduced. Tax credit would cost the country only £1.1 billion said Brown but are now at the staggering rate of £30 billion.

 

Labour always has been a borrowing government, that is the only way then know of raising money.

 

No, they like to tax as well. I don't think Brown would have increased the tax allowance as much.

[Conniff]

If the country wasn't so greedy and allowed the giveaways to be reduced, we could get the debt down and actually be in the black and there wouldn't be any requirement to borrow at all

in fact we could start to lend it and reap the benefits.