Tenants Trying To Remove Us From Property Using A N24 General Form of Judgement or order

[roony]

I did send the barristers another letter as well as the N24, but the barristers said they had no idea what it meant, & needed more information.

 

Which is why I didnt attach it to this post.

 

I've attached the additional letter to this post, but its only half a page & says something about "varying a residential contract into a commercial contract".

 

The claimants, ie the tenants have a residential AST, we've never signed a commercial contract with them.

 

It could be theyre saying we have to give them a commercial contract?

 

Again myself & the barristers have no idea what it means, & thus require more information.

[AndyOrch]

I think you need to start from the beginning here roony and tell the full story...

 

Who issued the claim ...the claim is to convert the lease to a commercial lease.

Who is the defendant who is the claimant ?

 

Has judgment been awarded on the N24 or is it making an order.

 

If its a judgment then you need to set it aside.....if its merely asking for a witness statement then you need to submit it by the date stated to support your defence/claim ?

[roony]

Hi andy,

 

What we've decided to do is wait until Monday morning, get the complete information from the court, & then decide if we should set aside or not.

 

We literally have no information on the case, apart from the two sheets of paper.

 

We are the defendants, our tenants are the claimants.

 

All we have is the N24 form & the letter.

 

The accompanying letter is dated 2012, but we have never seen that letter, before the tenants showed us a copy of the letter 2 weeks ago, & then we received this N24 form.

 

I genuinely think the letter is a fake, & the signature faked, as we have never seen a copy of it before. We dont have the cash to check for forensics etc.

 

I have no idea if a judgement has been made, I dont think so, as the N24 says the claimants filed an application on 27th October 2015.

 

"On the I7th November 2015 His Honour Judge John Mitchell sitting at the County Court at Central London Thomas More Building. Royal Courts of Justice. Strand. London WC2A 2LL considered the papers in the case and having read the Claimants' application dated the 27th October 2015 and ordered that :"

 

Yes I agree if its a judgement, then we need to set it aside, but we have no idea if a judgement was ever made. As we never received any papers for a judgement.

 

I highly doubt a judgement has been made.

 

Again we're going to wait until Monday morning, I dont think the court is open over the weekend, & then we'll know exactly if a judgement or what the case is really about.

 

Fortunately the court is close by, so we should be able to file on the same day if we get there early enough.

[AndyOrch]

Sounds like a plan ...gather all the facts...then we can advise.

[roony]

Will do & thanks.

[Ganymede]

This is a bit messy isn't it?

 

So your mother (as landlord) has a dispute with her tenant over the use of the property and they issued a claim against her. When was this done and have you seen the original Court documents? What were the details of this claim? (I assume it was to convert the AST to a commercial one as per the accompany letter?!).

 

Then the tenants stop paying and your mother decided to just move back into one of the properties despite the AST still being in place is that right?

 

As a result the tenants have made an application to Court to essentially get your mother out of the property, hence the Order you recently received. The Court want the tenant to provide a witness statement to explain the position from their application in more detail, after which the Court will be able to properly consider their application to exclude your mother from the property and will set a hearing date for the tenant and your mother/her solicitor to attend and argue their cases.

 

The recent Court Order relates to the tenant and their application. They clearly haven't given the Court enough information in their application which is why the Court has now ordered them to flesh it out and provide a witness statement to support their application to exclude your mother from the property.

 

I would agree with your mother's solicitor that she shouldn't try and set aside the recent Order as it is ordering the Claimant to provide more details to support their application.

 

Once the tenant files their witness statement it is very likely that a hearing date will be set and your mother can file her own witness statement in advance of this before attending to argue her case.

 

I don't think the Barristers had enough information and were giving you generic advice based on the fact you said no paperwork had been received prior to receiving the N24 Order.

[roony]

Hi Ganymede,

 

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

She's an aging 60+, & the tenants had managed to persuade her to not pay the rent for over 12 months, over a period of 3 years.

 

My mother moved into the property because she was forced to rent out her home. & had nowhere else to go. She literally has no way of paying the mortgage.

 

She has no income to cover the mortgage payments, out of desperation she rented out her entire home, & used a breach of contract clause in the AST, to get the keys for the then vacant property, from the tenants. To find a place for herself to stay, if she didnt she would be homeless.

 

The tenants are basically refusing to pay rent for TWO houses!!! her entire & only source of money ... for over 4 months now. She's in dire straits, & has no way to pay the mortgage's because of the tenants.

 

I'm helping her out, but I'm not sure how long I can help pay her mortgage ... I literally have only £100 a month after expenses, helping pay for her mortgage fee's.

 

I had no idea at the time, why we she was moving into the property, or why she asked me to divert funds into her account.

 

Also my mothers solicitor told us to set aside the recent order, & that we would loose if we didnt. Again we're waiting for monday to get the information we need from the court, as we have no idea what the original claim is.

[Ganymede]

It's strange that your mum got this Order but not the original Claim Form.

[roony]

Are we supposed to get a claim form or something? I have no idea what papers we should have received ...

[Ganymede]

Yes, right at the beginning of the claim your mother should have been sent Court papers, including a Claim Form, by the Court detailing the Claimant's claim.

[roony]

I think the tenants hid the court papers, as my mother was complaining about them opening her mail ...

 

Anyway, tomorrow I'll check the court, thanks.

[AndyOrch]

Sounds like a plan ...gather all the facts...then we can advise.

 

Didn't we agree that on Friday .roony ..until you get the details of the claim ...then nothing will make sense without the missing piece of jigsaw.

 

Andy

[roony]

Well I could ask the tenants if they hid the court papers ... lol

[AndyOrch]

Well I could ask the tenants if they hid the court papers ... lol

 

Im sure they would respond with a truthful answer

[roony]

Well, I rang the court & they said it takes them 47 days to prepare the forms for us to pick up, IF we email the court requesting the original claim form.

 

Are they fobbing me off? All I need is a copy of the claim form for the N24 general order ...

 

I also rang them to check if there were any judgement orders, but theyr useless, as they didnt even find the N24 general order on my address ...

[AndyOrch]

You could ask that they provide the details over the phone...claimants name.... date of claim ..number of claim .....particulars of claim ..and write it down?

 

Did I read earlier in your thread or other related threads this is Central London County Court ?

[roony]

Hi, yea this is central london county court. Ok I'll try asking them, they sound a bit useless though lol ...

[roony]

Yep, theyre refusing to give any details over the phone & I have to email them, or mail them a cheque for £10, before I can pick up the papers.

 

They wont even make let me make an appointment to pickup the papers over the phone. This court has the most useless system known to man. Either that or i'm being fobbed by the clerks at the desk ...

Edited November 23, 2015 by honeybee13
Pejorative term removed.

[Ganymede]

Sounds about right for Central London County Court. They have an absolutely horrific backlog and are running months behind.

 

You need two things:

 

1) The original N1 Claim Form and Particulars of Claim.

 

2) The N244 Application Notice.

[roony]

Thanks for that Ganymede, I'll try ringing them again & ask for those forms. I had no idea the court was this useless.

 

Why dont they just put the papers on the net, & give the claimants & defendants a password or something ...

[roony]

I think I'll have to ask my solicitor to file discovery against them & cough up another £200 for a n244 form ... if I want this info ... unless anyone knows a different way ...

[Ganymede]

I think I'll have to ask my solicitor to file discovery against them & cough up another £200 for a n244 form ... if I want this info ... unless anyone knows a different way ...

 

No, that is not the correct thing to do.

 

Once the Claimant has provided the witness statement the Court asked for the Court will set a hearing date and hopefully provide a copy of the statement and N244 Application Notice.

 

You could ask the Claimant/their Solicitor for copies.

[roony]

Will we be able to get it set aside, after the claimants file a witness statement?

 

I'm thinking if we cant get any information, we should go for a set aside now, just in case ? ...

[Ganymede]

I don't understand on what grounds/why you want it set aside.

 

Await the application hearing and argue your case then.

[roony]

The main problem is we dont know if a judgement order has been placed, to remove my mother from the premises.

 

Basically the grounds are a lack of information. As we have virtually no information apart from the N24 form, & half a sheet of paper with gibberish.

No other papers or information at all ...

 

Also today is the last out of the 7 days, we have to file a set aside or stay ...