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    • Plusnet complaints have offered about half the money, £150 up from £100, and their excuse is that two accounts were created. The story is I signed up for life mobile on 26/02/2016 and cancelled almost immdiately after. The initial payment to Lifemobile of £6.00 was refunded a week later, but a DD was setup for the account and the account was not cancelled. A month later on 31/03/2016 I signed up for a lifemobile account again at £5.95, made an initial payment and a DD was setup.  They have suggested I now go through the ombudsman, or should I go through the direct debit guarantee scheme as Plusnet are contesting it is a contractual issue, when I think it is an admin error on their part.   2016  * is the ghost account 26/02/2016                 CARD PAYMENT TO LIFEMOBILE.CO.UK,6.00 GBP, RATE 1.00/GBP ON 24-02-2016                                       £6.00*   Inital contract setup payment 02/03/2016                 CREDIT FROM LIFEMOBILE.CO.UK ON 2016-02-29                                                                                               £6.00*    Inital contract setup payment  refunded   31/03/2016                 CARD PAYMENT TO LIFEMOBILE.CO.UK,5.95 GBP, RATE 1.00/GBP ON 29-03-2016                                       £5.95 - New contract initial payment  08/04/2016                 DIRECT DEBIT PAYMENT TO LIFE MOBILE REF KIN731007, MANDATE NO 0013                                           £6.00 * - DirectDebit setup for cancelled contract   11/05/2016                 DIRECT DEBIT PAYMENT TO LIFE MOBILE REF KIN731007, MANDATE NO 0013                                           £6.00 * 16/05/2016                 DIRECT DEBIT PAYMENT TO LIFE MOBILE REF KIN731007, MANDATE NO 0013                                           £5.95   15/07/2016                 DIRECT DEBIT PAYMENT TO LIFE MOBILE REF KIN731007, MANDATE NO 0013                                           £10.22 11/07/2016                 DIRECT DEBIT PAYMENT TO LIFE MOBILE REF KIN731007, MANDATE NO 0013                                           £6.00 *   16/06/2016                 DIRECT DEBIT PAYMENT TO LIFE MOBILE REF KIN731007, MANDATE NO 0013                                           £6.25 10/06/2016                 DIRECT DEBIT PAYMENT TO LIFE MOBILE REF KIN731007, MANDATE NO 0013                                           £6.00 *       Response from Plusnet/Life Mobile:   Thank you for your time on the phone earlier on today, apologies for catching you at an inconvenient time. I will now keep the method of contact to email as requested.   Having investigate further into the above accounts I can confirm that:   Kin731007 was set upon the 26/02/2016 via Life Mobile and a welcome email and pack was emailed to the given email address of @hotmail.co.uk. On the welcome email it explained that the SIM only package was £6.00 per month and it was advised that we would be taking this payment on or after the 8th of every month. The bank details given were from a Santander UK account. There has been no usage on this account.   Kin7310071 was set up on the 05/04/2016 via Life Mobile and a welcome email and pack was sent to the given email address of @hotmail.co.uk. On the welcome email it explained that the SIM only package was £5.95 per month and it was advised that we would be taking this payment on or after the 14th of every month. The bank details given were from the same Santander UK account that was given when kin731007 was set up.   When you terminated the account kin7310071 via the PAC switching service in December 2019 you then on the 27/01/2020  received an email request for a payment of £12.60. Upon calling the mobile contact centre it transpired that this bill was a request for payment for account kin731007. You advised that this was not an account you were familiar with as it has a different telephone number to the one you had been using. It was at this point it was established that you had been receiving two separate bills each month but it was your belief that these bills were just a duplicate even though the amounts were different each month. It was requested that our fraud team investigate in to this further and at this point you asked for the full refund of the monies paid for the account kin731007.   Our credit and risk team reviewed the account and concluded that as it was opened prior to the account you were using (kin7310071), and given that all the payment details and email correspondence address matched they were satisfied that the account had not been opened fraudulently from our side.   As there now was a late payment marker for this account (kin731007), it has been agreed that we will now note the account as settled from the 09/12/2019 (last payment date) due to no activity, however we are unable to remove the account from your credit file in relation to fraud.   You have been offered a goodwill gesture of £100 by a Customer Services Manager at the mobile contact centre however this was declined. You have asked for a settlement of £271.80 which is the total amount you have paid for the monthly billing of account kin731007. We would be unable to refund that amount due to the account being maintained each month, the fact that a separate direct debit was on the account and that you have received monthly notifications for this account since it was established. I do appreciate however that you have spent some considerable time sorting this issue and understand the inconvenience caused. I would at this stage be happy to offer our final position as a monetary goodwill gesture of £150.00. Should you not wish to accept this we would potentially be in a position of deadlock. This means that both us and you cannot come to an amicable resolution to your complaint and this would provide you with the means to escalate your case to our recommended independent adjudicator, Ombudsman Service, as outlined in our Complaints Code of Practice.   Please let us know how you would like to progress with your case and we can look to take the appropriate action. Feel free to reply via email or if you would prefer to speak with me I can be reached on 0800 587 2677 .  I am in the office until 7pm this evening and back in on Monday.   Kind Regards   Nicola Nicola Wallis Customer Advocates Advisor
    • I cant get through to Kensington - 2 hour wait time! Do you think it might be a good idea to call TLT solicitors and explain that I written to Coast and asked them for the SAR - so I could calculate the charges that were incorrect and then setup the repayment with them - is it worth a phone call to them or not?   Also worried that I have not filled in this court form yet (N11M) - I think I have 28 days!  
    • It seems to me that there is a duty on Barclays to let their customers know about the effects of making these kinds of important decisions.
    • Thank you so much, l really appreciate your points. I can not begin to tell you how this has affected my life, l have not taken the Codeine since 2018, but been treated like a criminal by DVLA if l showed all the facts in this case it would shook people. Once the country is up and running late will try again just the time it takes as been a year now and not sure how much longer l can keep my Motability adapter vehicle for due for renewal in October) and my job, total independence gone for someone in a wheelchair just trying to be “normal” and go to work!! 
    • I have a repayment mortgage. I got a very vague letter stating the arrangement but there wasn’t a lot of information on it. I was offered any options. I was just told that they would take £x amount a month instead of my full mortgage payment for 6 months. 
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Hello All

 

A very dear friend of ours is in a bit of a pickle.

 

She separated from her husband and he forced her to sell the family home about 18 months ago.

 

They had a lot of debt between them, which was built up during the marriage.

 

She has care of their son and put the £10,000 which she got from the sale of their house in s trust fund for her son.

 

She is under a lot of pressure from her creditors for money.

 

She is considering going bankrupt, but is wondering if the £10,000 which she put away for her son will be taken away

 

Many thanks in advance

 

 

EOS-5D


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This was a response to a similar question from 2011, albeit not on this forum, hope its useful

 

Strictly speaking trust moneys actually belong to the trustees of a trust in name only and the trustees hold them on behalf of the beneficiaries, who are entitled to what is known as beneficial ownership. The trustees have a duty to use the assets for the benefit of the beneficiaries, as the name suggests. Assets held by a bankrupt as trustee are specifically excluded from his bankruptcy estate by section 283(3) of the Insolvency Act 1986.

 

The circumstances under which a trustee in bankruptcy could attack a trust set up by a bankrupt in favour of his children or other third party would be if the trust was a fraud or sham or set up with the deliberate intention of transferring his assets out of the reach of his creditors; or if the bankrupt transferred his assets into it when he was insolvent or he became insolvent as a result of such a transfer.


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Thread moved to the appropriate forum.

 

Regards

 

Andy


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What debt does she have?

 

Dx


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This was a response to a similar question from 2011, albeit not on this forum, hope its useful

 

Strictly speaking trust moneys actually belong to the trustees of a trust in name only and the trustees hold them on behalf of the beneficiaries, who are entitled to what is known as beneficial ownership. The trustees have a duty to use the assets for the benefit of the beneficiaries, as the name suggests. Assets held by a bankrupt as trustee are specifically excluded from his bankruptcy estate by section 283(3) of the Insolvency Act 1986.

 

The circumstances under which a trustee in bankruptcy could attack a trust set up by a bankrupt in favour of his children or other third party would be if the trust was a fraud or sham or set up with the deliberate intention of transferring his assets out of the reach of his creditors; or if the bankrupt transferred his assets into it when he was insolvent or he became insolvent as a result of such a transfer.

 

 

Martin,

 

 

Your answer is perfectly competent when it applies to bankruptcy, ie when the court has permitted a bankruptcy and the official receiver is appointed to use his/ her powers, notwithstanding not having a bankruptcy/ restriction clause (as below).

 

 

Non bankruptcy scenario, ie Creditors

 

 

Hello EOS,

 

 

Yes trustees have a nominal title as they only hold the assets but the assets are protected by a trust for the objects: ie beneficiaries. It also means the creditor should be making contact the trustee (The creditors may be committing a criminal offence if they're harassing you friend or the trustee). In other words the trustee has title to control the assets, the beneficiary/ies has/ have nothing to take until the point the trustee transfers the assets/ money to them, which is why beneficiaries merely have an equitable interest. A trust must be fully constituted however, ie transferring assets from the owner to the trust (held on trust). The formalities to fully constitute a trust is by a deed: s.53, Law of property Act (which gives the trustee a legal interest, nominally only). It's the trustee who has responsibility for the 10k and the assets therefore. The law even protects bankrupt trustees from his own creditors: Recognition of Trusts Act 1987, Article 2 of the Schedule, no doubt to benefit the innocent beneficiaries and trust assets.

 

 

Direct the creditors to the Trustee. Say, deal with the trustee. If they harass the trustee, they also have their own powers: Trustee Act 1925 (i believe)

 

 

Bankruptcy scenario

 

 

If you friend goes bankrupt, the official receiver (appointed Gov. official) in bankruptcy The official receiver will need to look at the deed/ trust instrument to see if there are any bankruptcy clauses, as bankruptcy clauses will over-ride the trust assets: Official Receiver at paragraph 31.5.54: https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/TechnicalManual/Ch25-36/Chapter31/part5/part3/part_3.htm

 

 

This is just the Receiver's job.

 

 

Your friend ESO's trust situation should be safe from the official receiver if there are no bankruptcy or restriction clauses. The Official Receiver will however want to see the deed to the trust.

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Hello All

 

A very dear friend of ours is in a bit of a pickle.

 

She separated from her husband and he forced her to sell the family home about 18 months ago.

 

They had a lot of debt between them, which was built up during the marriage.

 

She has care of their son and put the £10,000 which she got from the sale of their house in s trust fund for her son.

 

She is under a lot of pressure from her creditors for money.

 

She is considering going bankrupt, but is wondering if the £10,000 which she put away for her son will be taken away

 

Many thanks in advance

 

 

EOS-5D

 

 

How much Debt? if under £20k, she can consider a Debt Relief Order (DRO). If over 20k, a bankruptcy petition.

 

 

A Debt Relief Order costs only £90 and is done through an application to the Official Receiver. It needs to go through an assured agency, which includes Citizens Advice Bureau. Criteria: Must have no more than £50 disposable income (ie after normal household bills, national insurance, tax etc). This could be done instead of normal bankruptcy, which costs £700, requires court order, and may not be guaranteed.

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You could speak to National Debtline for advice as to whether a DRO or BR is most suitable.

 

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/

 

 

Call us for free

debt advice on

0808 808 4000

 

Monday to Friday

9am to 9pm

Saturday 9.30am to 1pm

 

 

IMHO, they are better placed to advise on this issue than Citizens Advice Bureau.


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