Xercise4less - Spratt Endicott now instructed

[R0b]

Hello,

 

Thought I could do with some advice, which I have an idea anyway but would like to make sure from the people with more knowledge on this.

 

So, couple years back maybe around 2013ish signed up to the new Gym in Liverpool pre-opening, offered the £9.99 12 month contract.

 

 

All is fine fine until around October/November when I wrote a letter informing them I have now moved and wished to cancel giving 1 months' notice.

They then took another payment out which I sent a further letter asking why a payment was taken but no response.

 

cancelled DD after that so no further payments could be taken.

I did have proof of receipts but unfortunately after moving they seem to have been lost in transit.

 

 

Forward on a month received a text saying I missed my payment and contact the gym, which I did

and informed them I have moved, asked for copies to be sent by email and so I did but no reply.

 

 

Then CRS got involved and despite telling them I've moved they failed to ask for my new address

and despite having my email and mobile number decided to send letters to the old address

- their excuse was that they dont make phone calls:!:

They also seemed to have ignored every response I made, even forwarding them copies of the letters.

 

they've quoted me £243.xx for fees which they have so far yet to substantiate.

I presume from reading some of the threads here it relates to admin charges amongst other things?

 

 

I was informed that they did a trace, which failed and then decided to do a further two traces, which also failed?!

(could have done a check on my credit file to find my new address).

 

Now I have a letter from Spratt Endicott requesting payment within the next 7 days.

Not sure how they have managed to rack up charges from £9.99 to £243 though?!

 

I'm quite happy to fight this right through to court but for the sake of my time I am also happy to pay a tenner to get rid of them.

 

Your comments would be helpful

 

Rob

[dx100uk]

you don't need to pay anything.

 

 

you paid after your cancellation letter.

so if anything they owe you?

 

 

the +£200 will prob be for the full next 12mts

as they try this dodge to roll you over into another 12mts contract.

 

 

pers I'd ignore them.

 

 

a DCA or their fake/tame sols

are NOT BAILIFFS

and have

NO SUCH LEGAL POWERS.

 

 

dx

[dx100uk]

https://cse.google.co.uk/cse?cx=partner-pub-0964707606882478:652l7hswbgv&ie=UTF-8&q=Xercise4less+-+Spratt+Endicott+&sa=Search+CAG#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=Xercise4less%20-%20Spratt%20Endicott&gsc.page=1

[R0b]

Thanks for that, the link doesn't seem to be working for me? maybe its my end.

 

Well I do know it was a rolling contract after 12 months so I'm not sure why they would try to do that.

 

Anyway, I shall write up a letter tomorrow on this!

[slick132]

Hi Rob and welcome to CAG

 

Are you saying you still have a copy of the cancellation letter but no proof of postage. If so, that's not really a problem.

 

When did you first cancel by letter ?

 

See this case where Spratt Endicott have been instructed - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?455625-Harlands-and-CRS-problems&p=4821442&viewfull=1#post4821442

 

There will be no court action taken as they have no decent grounds to litigate. You could use a similar letter to send to Spratt Endicott but change it a bit so it doesn't look like you've just cut and pasted it. Let us know what you send but keep it similarly short and simple.

 

Spratts will drop this like a Hot Potato when challenged and it'll go back to Harlands/CRS.

 

 

Keep us posted.

 

[R0b]

Hi Slick thanks for getting back to me, first letter sent out was in October (I believe it was before October's payment was due but could be wrong) and then also followed up in November when they took further payment - I think the Liverpool Gym opened around September time.

 

As for a copy of the cancellation letter yes I do somewhere, there is a few email chains in which X4L said they'd sort it out asap but failed to do so.

 

I shall knock something up today/this evening and report back.

[R0b]

Thoughts on the below?

 

---------------

 

SENT BY POST AND EMAIL TO:

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Your reference:

 

I acknowledge your letter dated 13 November 2015, your comments are noted.

 

Your Client’s claim of an alleged outstanding balance of £243.85 is wholly unwarranted. Despite repeated attempts to obtain a breakdown of the charges I have so far been unsuccessful. Therefore, please provide me with an itemised summary of the alleged debt. In any event, I deny that the balance is owed to your Client and I have followed the correct procedure in cancelling my membership with the gym.

 

Any commencement of proceedings without this information is premature and I reserve the right to bring this letter to the court’s attention in relation to you and your client’s unreasonable conduct.

 

Please confirm by return that this matter is now closed.

 

Yours faithfully,

[slick132]

Hi Rob,

 

IMHO, you don't need to know how Harlands arrive at their spurious figures. You just need to tell Spratts to get lost because you cancelled properly and owe nothing.

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Your reference:

 

I acknowledge your letter dated 13 November 2015.

 

Your Client’s claim of an alleged outstanding balance of £243.85 is wholly unwarranted.

 

I cancelled my gym membership in a proper manner and paid all that is due under the agreement T&C's.

 

I owe Harlands nothing but, if you have factual information to the contrary, please supply it by return.

 

Otherwise I expect to hear no more from you.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Send this by normal post and let us know how/if they reply.

 

[R0b]

Hi slick, appreciate your comments but if they did commence proceedings then I would at least have an argument and point of reference.

 

I understand from other threads they seem to drop it once I tell them I am disputing it but I would like to cover my back and in any case I would still like to know what the charges are for. This puts the ball firmly back in their court - I cannot defend something if i don't know how they have been calculated!

 

but i will amend and add in this point

I cancelled my gym membership in a proper manner and paid all that is due under the agreement T&C's.

 

thank you

[slick132]

Hi Rob,

 

Your call entirely and you must do what you feel is right.

 

Unfortunately, they won't take court action as they know they'd fail miserably.

 

Let us know what happens next ..............

 

[R0b]

Letter emailed to the file handler this morning, I'll post a letter today also. Will now wait and see what their response is

 

Thanks slick

[R0b]

Small update, received an email today from Spratt Endicott confirming the following:

 

1. £104.97 in outstanding gym charges

2. £66.50 CRS debt collection charge

3. £72.00 Tracing charge

 

Of course I won't be looking to pay any of those charges or anything near it! I vaguely recall being told that the gym charges were 3 months worth however my monthly payments were £9.99 p/m so they have that incorrect for starters!

 

EDIT: What's the argument on these debt collection/admin charges being reasonable?

Edited November 18, 2015 by R0b

[slick132]

Hi Rob,

 

Can you confirm, did you cancel the DD in Oct/Nov 2014 ?

 

I'd now reply to Spratts saying :-

 

Thank you for your email of 18th November.

 

I paid all that was due, including a month's gym fee for the notice period after giving notice to cancel.

 

The amount you seek consists of gym fees that were never due, and admin fees that are unlawful and unenforceable penalty charges.

 

I will pay you nothing but will lodge formal complaints (including to The SRA) if you make any further demand.

 

By the way, depending on the exact dates, the final DD may have been due because of the 1 month notice that's required. This was referred to in your first post.

 

Edited November 18, 2015 by slick132

[R0b]

Hi Slick, the DD was cancelled in November after realising they took another payment, so notice given in October which was paid and then a further payment in November. Either way I see it, notice was given and for arguments sake they can have the 9.99 for November regardless of whether they were entitled to it.

 

Can you explain a bit further on the unlawful and unenforceable admin charges as a penalty? Obviously they have to be reasonable in order to be deemed fair but wonder if anything like this has gone to court and has been judged on as being unfair, also there was nothing in the original agreement to say they could recover the charges from debt collectors.

[Bazooka Boo]

Nothing like this has gone to court, simply because legal action brought on account of a debt made up purely of charges will never win and they know it.

[slick132]

Hi Rob,

 

Please confirm the year you cancelled.

 

[R0b]

Thanks bazooka

 

@slick October 2014 signed up August 2013 prior to opening of the gym so I think my first payment actually came out in August was on a 12 month contract rolling month after that - signed up with friend at the time who can verify.

[slick132]

Hi Rob and thanks for the years.

 

The T&C's will have mentioned about admin fees and recovery by Harlands, CRS and/or third party DCA's. However, that does NOT make the admin fees lawful or payable.

 

The issue about default charges has been around for years. In fact, this was the basis for reclaiming bank current a/c charges until 2007. The Supreme Court case [Abbey National and others] decided that bank fees could not be considered for fairness under UTCCR as they were a core part of the bank's income.

 

But that argument did not affect default charges on credit card, catalogue, bank loan or mortgage a/c's. That's how they are still referred to as unlawful, unenforceable and reclaimable.

 

Send the letter off to Spratts and you won't see them for dust !

 

[R0b]

Hi Slick, I have to admit I honestly didn't see any reference to collection of charges/admin charges within the agreement at the time as I did read it head to toe including cancellation fees/charges. I will however take your word for it as it has been some time years since signing up and you are clearly more knowledgeable on me than this

 

So your saying admin charges are a secondary mechanism than a core term? but I would then have to raise the charges as being unfair, and not always guaranteed to be found unfair?

 

I'll send off the letter tomorrow and see what happens from there.

[slick132]

Hi Rob,

 

Bottom line is that Harlands always say their charges are authorised, approved, etc but we say they are not. That's why we tell folk to challenge them, and not pay them.

 

I'm not specifically saying the admin fees are a secondary mechanism to raise income - we simply maintain they are effectively penalties that are both unlawful and unenforceable

 

Harlands make their money taking a percentage of the gym fees that are collected through their DD system. But they try to make a whole lot more by charging their admin fees which are then increased by CRS.

 

Send the letter to get Spratts off your back. Then let us know when Harlands/CRS contact you further and we'll suggest a letter, followed by ignoring their demands.

 

To be honest, I'm surprised they are only demanding £240 odd. With this being over a year old, I'd expect them to be seeking far more with their added admin fees. In any event, I think you've paid all that you owe and we'll support you in asserting this.

 

[R0b]

Quick update, received email this morning saying they are awaiting further instructions from the client and also a detailed breakdown of the charges. Is this the likely stage that they will not go any further forward or am I to expect further emails before they drop it?!

[Bazooka Boo]

TBH I wouldn't be bothered in the slightest, let them continue flogging a dead horse, they're up a creek without a paddle and they know it.

[slick132]

Spratts will do nothing and will simply pass it back to Harlands/CRS.

 

If they continue to harass you, you should make formal complaints to The CMA and to Trading Standards,

 

[Bazooka Boo]

And BBC Watchdog, as they seem to be coming quite prolific of late, can you tell it's nearly Christmas bonus time yet?

[R0b]

Good afternoon,

 

slight update as after a couple of months I received an email out of the blue saying that the client has now revised the charges as saying:

 

3 x £9.99 outstanding

£25 admin fees

£66.50 CRS fees

2 x £26 tracing fees

 

Total = £132.47 (they forgot to add the extra tracing fee)

 

Of course I am going to reject this, what's the chances of them issuing a claim?