Tax credit investigation

[Jay206]

Me and my partner split up in March s

I rang child tax and changed my circumstances to single,

 

we decided to get back together and give it another go at the end of april, I stupidly and god knows how forgot to change the claim and had a letter from concentrix telling me that the are investigating me,

 

I completely held my hands up and admitted I forgot to change the claim

sent in the paperwork that they required,

 

could someone inform me what's going to happen to me,

 

I've never stolen anything in my life and I'm petrified about what's going to happen

[Ruleoflaw]

Hello, Jay

 

"..forgot to change the claim and had a letter from concentrix telling me that the are investigating me.."

 

HMRC has the power to call off Concentrix (they're debt collectors, right)?

 

 

 

It sounds to me as though it's just an overpayment problem. How much tax credits (in £s) have you claimed between April 2015 and 16 November 2015 (today's date)? This is the applicable period of overpayment.

 

 

You have not stolen, if anything you just continued receiving unknowingly. Try not to think of it being a crime. Do you have any type of disability which impairs your memory, do you have any anxiety problem or any other nervous disorders, if you do, you may be able to say you were significantly affected by these things which made me forgetful, potentially. Are there any other type of affecting issues that you, your household have that may help your situation?

 

 

They may just try to claim back any over-payments especially if it was just something you never realised. You could however also say that you should not have to pay it back too by appealing the decision: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/benefits-introduction/problems-with-benefits-and-tax-credits/challenging-a-tax-credit-decision/appealing-against-a-tax-credit-decision/

Edited November 16, 2015 by Ruleoflaw

[Jay206]

Hi thank u for the reply it's just under £8k I've got 4 kids, I was paying £1000 a month out on the house bills as they where coming out of my account still after the split so I didn't even notice the money. The only mail I had from Ct was when I originally made the single claim as nothing else changed

Do I need to ring child tax myself and inform them of the mistake even though it's being investigated by concentrix

As far as I know about concentrix they have been hired my hmrc to investigate

[Jay206]

I suffer with depression and the relationship is still being worked on, one minute he's here then he dissappears for a week, with 4 kids and trying to hold the family together I just completely forgot to change it. I know that's no excuse to forget something as important as that and it was stupid and a general mistake

[Ruleoflaw]

Hi thank u for the reply it's just under £8k I've got 4 kids, I was paying £1000 a month out on the house bills as they where coming out of my account still after the split so I didn't even notice the money. The only mail I had from Ct was when I originally made the single claim as nothing else changed

Do I need to ring child tax myself and inform them of the mistake even though it's being investigated by concentrix

As far as I know about concentrix they have been hired my hmrc to investigate

 

 

 

Yes let HMRC know the situation asap. Tell them you are not able to pay if you're not able to pay. Do you own your own home, ie via a mortgage, or do you rent the home you live from landlord or council etc? Are you or partner employed?

[Jay206]

Yes we are both employed but wages barely cover the bills will I be able to open a joint claim if the single claim is under investigation we rent from council

[Ruleoflaw]

Yes we are both employed but wages barely cover the bills will I be able to open a joint claim if the single claim is under investigation we rent from council

 

 

Well, the overpayment is owed by you, but if your partner were to help you pay it back that would be fine. What do you mean by 'joint claim?' Did you have previous claim for tax credits with both your names on the application form? They could take a certain amount out of your, and your partner's potentially, wages. This is assuming you are forced to pay back the overpayments.

 

 

You could ask HMRC to review their decision; ask for a review even if the HMRC review of that decision is made within 13 months: Section 21B, Tax Credit Act 2002.

 

 

 

Debt Relief Order

 

 

£8,000 is lot of money to them. Since you rent they can't take a property that you don't own. Have you considered a Debt Relief Order? Debts below 20k, so 8k qualifies. Will relieve you of this £8k debt. Must have no more than £50 per month (after taxes, normal spending, taxes, national insurance etc). Only costs £90. Application to Official Receiver (Gov. Official) but need to go through 'assured agency' including Citizens Advice. No court order needed.

 

 

 

Bankruptcy

 

 

Have you considered making yourself bankrupt: https://www.gov.uk/bankruptcy/overview You could do it through court petition, there will be costs involved (£700). Ask some advice on this forum. If you are made bankrupt, it will relieve you of this £8k debt. There will be restrictions with credit such as getting loans or credit cards. Am not a bankruptcy expert so I do not know if this is feasible for you or HMRC. It's a more expensive route and I think the Debt Relief Order is possibly better for you.

 

 

I am just saying that you have options if the HMRC make life awkward for you.

 

 

NB: I am not a qualified lawyer - it's just my opinion to try and help you.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Ruleoflaw

[mikeymack2002]

Then you should remember that a failure to notify a change of circumstances could get you a penalty for it. This is on top of the overpayment.

 

HMRC have a link to changes that you have to notify. There are other things they can do too.

[blondebubbles]

Concentrix are not debt collectors, they are a company used by HMRC to complete their compliance checks.

 

The normal tax credit helpline will not be able to help at this point if it is with concentrix. You need to call concentrix and confirm when your partner moved in.

 

As mentioned you will be overpaid from the date you moved in until the date you report the change.

 

I doubt you could say you didn't notice. If the overpayment is £8000 for 7 and a half months that suggests payments from them of over £1000 per month.

 

You will not be able to apply as a couple until you end the single claim as you can't have 2 claims running at the same time.

 

If you and your partner have any future entitlement the overpayment will be taken back from that. Without knowing your income it's difficult to say if you could claim as a couple.

 

If no longer entitled you will need to make direct payments or they could change your tax code to recover it via your income. This won't apply to your partner as the overpayment is not his.

 

Asking for a review doesn't make much sense in your case. You are claiming as a single person when you are no longer single therefore the claim is incorrect. A review would be applicable where you disagree with HMRCs decision eg they say you live with a partner and you don't.

 

Section 21 also refers to HMRC making an official error which there is no evidence of here.

 

Bankruptcy seems like a very extreme option at this stage.

[Ruleoflaw]

Concentrix are not debt collectors, they are a company used by HMRC to complete their compliance checks.

 

The normal tax credit helpline will not be able to help at this point if it is with concentrix. You need to call concentrix and confirm when your partner moved in.

 

As mentioned you will be overpaid from the date you moved in until the date you report the change.

 

I doubt you could say you didn't notice. If the overpayment is £8000 for 7 and a half months that suggests payments from them of over £1000 per month.

 

You will not be able to apply as a couple until you end the single claim as you can't have 2 claims running at the same time.

 

If you and your partner have any future entitlement the overpayment will be taken back from that. Without knowing your income it's difficult to say if you could claim as a couple.

 

If no longer entitled you will need to make direct payments or they could change your tax code to recover it via your income. This won't apply to your partner as the overpayment is not his.

 

Asking for a review doesn't make much sense in your case. You are claiming as a single person when you are no longer single therefore the claim is incorrect. A review would be applicable where you disagree with HMRCs decision eg they say you live with a partner and you don't.

 

Section 21 also refers to HMRC making an official error which there is no evidence of here.

 

Bankruptcy seems like a very extreme option at this stage.

 

 

"[ 21B.— Late application for a review

 

 

(1) The Commissioners for Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs may in a particular case extend

the time limit specified in section 21A(1)(a) for making an application for a review if all of the

 

 

following conditions are met.

 

 

(2) The first condition is that the person seeking a review has applied to the Commissioners for an

 

extension of time.

 

 

(3) The second condition is that the application for the extension—

 

 

(a) explains why the extension is sought, and

 

 

(b) is made within 13 months of the notification of the original decision or of the date the

 

 

original decision was made if not notified because of section 23(3) .

 

 

(4) The third condition is that the Commissioners are satisfied that due to special circumstances it

 

 

was not practicable for the application for a review to have been made within the time limit specified

 

 

in section 21A(1)(a).

 

 

(5) The fourth condition is that the Commissioners are satisfied that it is reasonable in all the

 

 

circumstances to grant the extension.

 

 

(6) In determining whether it is reasonable to grant an extension, the Commissioners must have

 

 

regard to the principle that the greater the amount of time that has elapsed between the end of the

 

 

time limit specified in section 21A(1)(a) and the date of the application, the more compelling should

 

 

be the special circumstances on which the application is based.

 

 

(7) An application to extend the time limit specified in section 21A(1)(a) which has been refused

 

 

may not be renewed."

 

 

NB: This does not say anything about HMRC making an error. It just alludes if there is good cause: s. 21B, Tax Credit Act 2002 (subject to upcoming amendments by the Welfare Reform Act 2012).

[blondebubbles]

"[ 21B.— Late application for a review

 

 

(1) The Commissioners for Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs may in a particular case extend

the time limit specified in section 21A(1)(a) for making an application for a review if all of the

 

 

following conditions are met.

 

 

(2) The first condition is that the person seeking a review has applied to the Commissioners for an

 

extension of time.

 

 

(3) The second condition is that the application for the extension—

 

 

(a) explains why the extension is sought, and

 

 

(b) is made within 13 months of the notification of the original decision or of the date the

 

 

original decision was made if not notified because of section 23(3) .

 

 

(4) The third condition is that the Commissioners are satisfied that due to special circumstances it

 

 

was not practicable for the application for a review to have been made within the time limit specified

 

 

in section 21A(1)(a).

 

 

(5) The fourth condition is that the Commissioners are satisfied that it is reasonable in all the

 

 

circumstances to grant the extension.

 

 

(6) In determining whether it is reasonable to grant an extension, the Commissioners must have

 

 

regard to the principle that the greater the amount of time that has elapsed between the end of the

 

 

time limit specified in section 21A(1)(a) and the date of the application, the more compelling should

 

 

be the special circumstances on which the application is based.

 

 

(7) An application to extend the time limit specified in section 21A(1)(a) which has been refused

 

 

may not be renewed."

 

 

NB: This does not say anything about HMRC making an error. It just alludes if there is good cause: s. 21B, Tax Credit Act 2002 (subject to upcoming amendments by the Welfare Reform Act 2012).

 

Apologies I was referring to S21 rather than S21B

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/21/section/21

 

Regardless, that is under appeals which is not applicable in this case. The claim is single, the OP isn't single therefore there is nothing to appeal unless the OP doesn't believe she should be treated as living with a partner.

 

Even if it was to apply that wouldn't be necessary as the decision won't be made until she contacts them.

[Ruleoflaw]

Apologies I was referring to S21 rather than S21B

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/21/section/21

 

Regardless, that is under appeals which is not applicable in this case. The claim is single, the OP isn't single therefore there is nothing to appeal unless the OP doesn't believe she should be treated as living with a partner.

 

Even if it was to apply that wouldn't be necessary as the decision won't be made until she contacts them.

 

"38 Appeals

 

 

 

(1) An appeal may [ , subject to subsection (1A), ] 1 be brought against—

 

 

 

(a) a decision under section 14(1), 15(1), 16(1), 19(3) or 20(1) or (4) or regulations under

 

 

section 21,

 

 

(b) the relevant section 18 decision in relation to a person or persons and a tax credit for a

 

 

tax year and any revision of that decision under that section,

 

 

© a determination of a penalty under paragraph 1 of Schedule 2 , […]2

[ (ca) a decision under section 36A or 36C that working tax credit is not payable (or is not

payable for a particular period), and ] 3

 

(d) a decision under section 37(1).

 

 

[ (1A) An appeal may not be brought by virtue of subsection (1) against a decision unless a review

 

 

 

of the decision has been carried out under section 21A and notice of the conclusion on the review

 

 

has been given under section 21A(3).

 

 

(1B) If in any case the conclusion of a review under section 21A is to uphold the decision reviewed,

 

 

an appeal by virtue of subsection (1) in that case may be brought only against the original decision.

 

 

(1C) If in any case the conclusion of a review under section 21A is to vary the decision reviewed,

 

 

an appeal by virtue of subsection (1) in that case may be brought only against the decision as

 

 

varied. ]"

NB: section 38 is Appeals

[blondebubbles]

Yes which these amendments refer to:

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2014/9780111109571

 

Your advice doesn't apply in this case. There isnt anything to review or appeal as the claim is incorrect and the decision to end the single claim is correct.

 

An appeal or review would apply where you disagree with their decision.

 

What I think you really want to suggest is an overpayment dispute. This is where the overpayment is correct (and it is because the OP is not single) but the OP does not believe they should repay it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/463492/COP26.pdf

[Ruleoflaw]

Apologies I was referring to S21 rather than S21B

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/21/section/21

 

Regardless, that is under appeals which is not applicable in this case. The claim is single, the OP isn't single therefore there is nothing to appeal unless the OP doesn't believe she should be treated as living with a partner.

 

Even if it was to apply that wouldn't be necessary as the decision won't be made until she contacts them.

 

 

Yes, and it is for that reason I told the op to explain her situation to the OP asap, then deal with overpayments afterwards, or argue there are grounds for not paying. It just depends whether her disabilities can be used to persuade HMRC to be or have the effect of reasonable due cause.

[Ruleoflaw]

Yes which these amendments refer to:

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2014/9780111109571

 

Your advice doesn't apply in this case. There isnt anything to review or appeal as the claim is incorrect and the decision to end the single claim is correct.

 

An appeal or review would apply where you disagree with their decision.

 

What I think you really want to suggest is an overpayment dispute. This is where the overpayment is correct (and it is because the OP is not single) but the OP does not believe they should repay it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/463492/COP26.pdf

 

 

There is no such thing as 'doesn't apply'.. it just depends how creative and persuasive an idea is. I do not look for law that matches the facts, i look at the facts and find the law to benefit the facts, even if at a stretch where possible. Law is merely a tool which may be amenable to manipulation, as what would be the point in law if there were only a verbatim application. What about the rules of statutory interpretation for instance.

[blondebubbles]

The OP has admitted they are not single. Other than lying about this there is not grounds for appeal. She isn't single and claimed to be even if this was in error.

 

The appeal form is very clear on this.

 

"You can’t ask us to reconsider a decision asking you to pay back an overpayment. But, you can ask us to look at our decision again if you think the amount of

tax credits you were awarded in the first place was wrong.

Although you can’t ask us to reconsider a decision asking you to pay back an overpayment, you can dispute an overpayment if you think that we gave you wrong advice."

 

There could be grounds for dispute due to illness as outlined in the COP26.

 

If a penalty is charged this can be appealed.

[Ruleoflaw]

Thanks Blondebubbles. If the grounds of COP26 could be argued in terms of Op's disability, how would this affect the 8k overpaid amounts?

[blondebubbles]

Thanks Blondebubbles. If the grounds of COP26 could be argued in terms of Op's disability, how would this affect the 8k overpaid amounts?

 

They would either reduce it, cancel it or leave it as it is.

 

The fact that the OP knew to call the month before to change to a single claim probably won't go in her favour unless her condition deteriorated after the partner moved in.