Parking charge notice - A S Parking in Cornwall

[jumbosticka]

I need clarification with a parking charge notice received from A S Parking based over in Newquay. A group of us, 10 in all, received a PCN for parking on private land demanding £60 within 14 days or £100 within 28 days at around 8.30 in the evening. We were attending a friend's birthday party who had no idea that only residents were allowed to park there. We thought of appealing to the company for the following reasons:

 

1. Everyone was coming to this area for the first time and in the dark.

 

2. The private parking notice outside the house was not seen as (a) the light was out above the notice and, even if it had been on, (b) the notice was too high to be read from the ground in the dark.

 

3. When visiting a place for the first time in the dark a driver is generally trying to find the address and, again, as the light was out on this lamp post by this house, no-one saw it.

 

4. There are no lines indicating 'no parking' on this road.

 

5. 2 guest cars parked further down the same road did not receive parking tickets. This seems very inconsistent.

 

6. We are all genuinely careful citizens and not one of us set out to act illegally or unfairly.

 

What chances do we have of these points being taken on board? The company is an IAS member and from what I have read that even if our original appeal has been rejected, appealing to the IAS will be of no use as it seems to be a kangaroo court.

 

Do we just pay up the reduced fine and forget about it?

 

Any advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

 

Many thanks.

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

Were the tickets on the windscreen?

 

Can you get someone to take pictures of the signs both in daylight and at night.

 

Were there any signs on entering the road?

 

Athens Security (trading as A S Parking) are members if the IPC who act fast and loose with the provisions of the PoFA 2012.

 

As far as my own checks reveal, I can find no cases taken to court by ASP but since a recent judgement (Beavis) you may need to appeal this. If it was a windscreen ticket then wait for the Notice to Keeper and see what that says.

[jumbosticka]

Thank you, silverfox1961. Yes, these PCNs were on our windscreen. I did take a photo at night and need to take one in daylight. There was a notice on a lit lamppost but this was hardly noticeable as it was dark and moreover high up - needless to say, we were all looking for the house no in the dark.

 

If your advice is to wait for Notice to Keeper, will this not go past the 14 day rule, thereby, increasing the cost? Are you saying that we should not appeal to them as keeper of the car as per moneysavirngexpert.com advises?

[ericsbrother]

the only point that will get you anywhere is number 2, the signage was inadequate and placed in such a position as to be unreadable in the dark. This point wont get your tickets cancelled by AS Parking but will go a long way to defeating any future court claim so stick with that for the moment when you do appel to ASP. Dont worry about going over the discount time with your appealing etc, if you intend to fight that doesnt count for anything.

Firstly though, you got a screen ticket, what was the date of that? The company then has to send a Notice to keeper between 29 and 56 days after the event, any sooner or later and it isnt valid so no keeper liability. AS often get this wrong so dont be contacting them before you get the NTK. Mkae them spend their money on a wild goose chase, when it comes to a later appeal there are plenty of other things you can appeal on and make them and the IPC look stupid ( they dont need much help in that dept).

[ericsbrother]

Oh, and makes sure all your friends follow the same procedure.

[jumbosticka]

Thank you for your advice, ericsbrother. The ticket was issued at 20:28. I have noticed on A S Parking's online appeal page that you have to put a name and address as well as an email address. Can we get away with putting false names and addresses but valid email addresses (so that we get a reply)?

[ericsbrother]

on what day? How did you get the ticket? On your car windscreen? if so read my post above again (and plenty of others to get an idea of what is what) they have to obey strict protocols to get any money and AS rarely do, that is how to easily defeat them.

You do not go anywhere near AS parking's web site and do not say anything until you get the NTK. Read all about private parking appeals before you do anything or you will give away many of the reasons for the claim being invalid.

[jumbosticka]

This was on a Friday night (13 Nov) and the PCN was stuck on the windscreen. So, are you suggesting we do not appeal via their on-line appeal document even as keeper of the car?

[ericsbrother]

NO, you cant appeal as keeper until you get the notice to keeper. Make them spend their money getting the keeper details and then sending out that notice. AS nearly always get it wrong and then lose the chance to claim. that is why we say wait at this stage otherwise they dont have to go to the effort and also know they are chasing the right person as you ahve identified yourself as the driver becuase you have jumped the gun.

[jumbosticka]

Thank you for that. Is it also worth going to the Citizen's Advice Bureau?

[jimbojetset68]

The guy's on here are better than CAB!

Do nothing until the NTK is with you, listen to these guy's they are not people who say ":I think", They know the law.

 

Just follow their instructions.

 

And do what I will do soon, give generously.

Edited November 15, 2015 by jimbojetset68

[honeybee13]

The guy's on here are better than CAB!

 

Thank you jimbo.

 

HB

[jumbosticka]

I posted the same question on moneysavingsexpert.com's forum. Interestingly enough, I got a response from one of the residents or it could be A S Parking themselves! These PCNs must have been slapped on the windscreens after the resident complained about one of the guests who blocked their garage, but who duly moved it once notified.

 

“To help you out kerensa as a resident on the estate I wish to address your points, firstly the householder you were at was given a letter and two permits for visitors and the whole process was clearly explained and the person was also personally spoken to about the scheme before it commenced. The signage is clear and prior to the address you have passed some three signs so if these were missed I would question your ability to drive at night as they are all clear and large. Further more having had my garage and my neighbours blocked by a party goer the household was knocked on and no one admitted it was their car! Worth noting that this car was also parked under a sign regarding the restrictions and a street light so clearly no reason to miss it! No lines are required for the scheme as there is clear signage as I have already stated. I question your genuinely careful citizens when numerous drives and garages were blocked by the party goers, I wonder how you would feel if you couldn't get in your garage when returning home from work at night and knocking on doors to no avail. I wish you luck in your appeal as numerous residents were disgusted with the visitors parking attitude and if needed I for one would happily supply to the company any evidence they might required for civil action.

I raise the point again that the host resident is fully aware of the parking enforcement and struggle to see your point that you could not see at least on of the five signs that stretch from the entrance to the estate to where the bottom garages were blocked right beside a sign!"

Originally posted by maddog2015

[jumbosticka]

Duplicate post

Edited November 16, 2015 by jumbosticka

[Bazooka Boo]

That MSE site is pretty poor IMO, and is littered with trolls, the advice on there is very questionable, I'd most certainly not take any advice from there.

[jumbosticka]

Does it count for anything for the host of the party to write a latter to the estate management team who have passed the parking control to the parking enforcement team?

 

Also, just noticed that the BPA logo is on the PCN, however, it states on the back that an appeal to the ATA has to go to IPC. Does this mean I request a POPLA code when it comes to it?

Edited November 17, 2015 by jumbosticka

[Bazooka Boo]

just noticed that the BPA logo is on the PCN, however, it states on the back that an appeal to the ATA has to go to IPC. Does this mean I request a POPLA code when it comes to it?

 

Funny that, I can't seem to find them as members on the BPA website?

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/approved-operators

[jumbosticka]

Exactly! So why do they have a BPA logo on the PCN? They seem to be a member of the IPC!

[Bazooka Boo]

Well you may have won already without lifting a finger??

 

But wait for ericsbrother to advise, do you have any photos of the signage? Does the BPA logo appear on those as well??

[jumbosticka]

From what I can tell from the photo of the sinage, they haven't got the BPA logo on that (just the IPC logo), but then why mislead people on the PCNs? May have to go back to the site to verify this.

[armadillo71]

A PPC can have corporate membership of the BPA but not their AOS.

 

Athens Security Services Limited*joined the IPC AOS on 1/5/2015.

[jumbosticka]

So, what does that mean? Can we not request a POPLA code?

[ericsbrother]

Does it count for anything for the host of the party to write a latter to the estate management team who have passed the parking control to the parking enforcement team?

 

?

Well, the estate management team dont have the legal authority to sign these bandits up so you will win eventually but let us see if they can get things wrong for themselves and hit them with that before using all of the ammunition up.

[jumbosticka]

Just out of interest, in order for the signage to be compliant, is it compulsory to have the hours of enforcement on it?

[armadillo71]

Just out of interest, in order for the signage to be compliant, is it compulsory to have the hours of enforcement on it?

 

Have a read of the IPC code of practice with regards to signage;

 

http://www.theipc.info/accredited-operator-scheme

 

You must adequately display any signs intended to form the basis of contract between the creditor and the driver. Such signs must; 1) Identify yourself as ‘the Creditor’; 2) 3) 4) 5) 6) 7) Identify the amount of any charge and explain when it becomes payable; Advise drivers that if a charge remains unpaid for a period of 28 days after issue then an application will be made for the Keeper’s details from DVLA, or, that they may be requested immediately such that a notice may be served on the keeper by post; Be clearly legible and placed in such a position (or positions) such that a driver of a vehicle is able to see them clearly upon entering the site or parking a vehicle within the site; Have clear and intelligible wording and be designed such that it is clear to the reasonable driver that he is entering into a contract with the creditor or committing a trespass as the case may be; Contain text appropriate to the position of the sign and the relative position of the person who it is aimed at. Be of a colour scheme that provides good contrast between the background of the sign and the text upon it.

 

Best read the PDF in the link as the formatting is screwed above!