rail fines

[Old-CodJA]

can you both confirm that you have never at any time worked for the railways or anyone connected with them in any way and do you have anything helpful or constructive to add to what has been posted?

 

many thanks,

 

andy

 

 

 

I can't speak for dx100uk and he is clearly articulate enough to do that for himself.

 

For me, yes, I have worked for railways and am connected with the industry and the revenue protection, administration & prosecution processes.

 

As for whether I have anything helpful or constructive to add to this thread, that would depend on exactly how the reader interprets and acts upon what might be written.

 

From my reading of this thread it appears to me that you have made up your mind about earlier contributions by several industry insiders and have decided on a firm course of action.

 

For that reason I shall not offer further comment on this thread but wish you good luck.

[dx100uk]

ditto...

[Ganymede]

yes i drifted back to the past there, although i generally put southeastern.

 

is that the main issue for both of you here?

 

can you both confirm that you have never at any time worked for the railways or anyone connected with them in any way and do you have anything helpful or constructive to add to what has been posted?

 

many thanks,

 

andy

 

You seem to be making life very difficult for yourself for no reason. Just pay by card.

 

If the card only machine is genuinely out of order and there is no ticket office you can board the train and pay on it or at your destination. You won't get a penalty fare in those circumstances.

[andy johnsonn]

i have still not decided on a course of action old codger.

 

i do think it is wrong of you not to declare your lack of independence before posting, you final posts along with your colleague in the railways are little more than common trolling.

 

ganymede i have started using an old bank card, an option that would not be open to most teenagers who use the railways often. however the machine has already malfunctioned, leaving no way of buying a ticket before entering the train. fortunately a ticket inspector was doing his job instead of sitting in with the driver and i was able to purchase a ticket rather than being given a penalty fare and having a lot of paperwork to complete to have it potentially cancelled.

 

i have no idea if the railway employees are paid to post one sided replies on here or whether their employers even know they do it or if it is done out of allegiance. my understanding is that the likes of southeastern have a legal obligation to provide some sort of reliable ticket purchasing option, which from an early malfunction it suggests card only machines may not be capable of doing on their own

 

as far as i can see southeastern are indulging in sharp practice at best and breaking the law at worst. there is clearly a new concerted effort to crack down on fare dodgers that even some inspectors are unhappy about. i support it totally as long as it is done fairly. however southeastern must be aware that their machines are not reliable and they are fully aware many ticket inspectors on the trains prefer to sit in with guards on many journeys rather than checking/selling tickets. the only line out of southeastern that i use now and again is the ashford rye brighton line. on every single occasion i have had my ticket checked so it could just be southeastern rather than all rail companies that chose to do nothing about their employees behaviour. i also feel it is wrong that those selling tickets are not being properly trained, it does seem that southeastern take a relaxed approach to their employees doing and having the knowledge to do their jobs properly.

 

as far as what i intend doing goes. i will provide an e-mail to the local parish magazine and provide a warning as to what is going on and request people contact me with details of any downtime of the ticket machine as i don't travel regularly and i am travelling less often by train since the original incident.

 

if others are having problems with their ticket machines malfunctioning at stations that are unmanned i would urge them to do the same.

 

i will contact rail consumer group(s) to try to establish the legality of what is going on and take advice from them.

 

it is clearly not right to fine people trying to purchase tickets but being unable to do so due to lack of facilities provided.

 

so far southeastern have avoided answering questions put to them and refused to allow their replies to be shared. they do in any case add, 'Any views expressed by an individual within this email do not necessarily reflect the views of Southeastern' so effectively by contacting their complaints department you get a response from one of their employees that they take zero responsibilty for and may not agree with the contents of. a reasonable person may conclude this is an ineffective and largely pointless complaints procedure.

 

in short rather than the original problem, having now scratched under the surface i am now extremely concerned by sharp practice and failing customer service employed by southeastern.

 

andy

[dx100uk]

i have still not decided on a course of action old codger.

 

i do think it is wrong of you not to declare your lack of independence before posting, you final posts along with your colleague in the railways are little more than common trolling.

 

[/size][/font]

 

sorry but if you were to read threads here

even from day one

 

its very obv OJ works in this sector and has stated this several times

 

 

 

 

and has actually helped more people

get a satisfactory result more than anyone else

 

 

dx

[honeybee13]

If you click on OC's username, it takes you to a screen that tells you what he does.

 

I agree with dx, OC has helped a great many people.

 

HB

[citizenB]

i have still not decided on a course of action old codger.

 

i do think it is wrong of you not to declare your lack of independence before posting, you final posts along with your colleague in the railways are little more than common trolling.

 

 

andy

 

 

No one can or should accuse OC of being a troll. As already said by others, OC has declared who he is and whilst his responses might not be what someone wants to hear - they are honest and responsible replies and there is no justification to imply he is a troll !

 

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into ...

 

[andy johnsonn]

i think there is little point continuing with the thread. the questions i have raised have not been answered here or by southeastern.

 

even now the last three posts have simply been to support a regular poster rather than addressing the issues.

 

i simply stated the final comments were nothing more than common trolling which i believe they were.

 

i hadn't read anyone's profile and neither of the two posters connected with the railways had declared that until i raised the question.

 

i simply stated the final comments were nothing more than common trolling, i made a clear separation from old codger's original comments.

 

i asked if they had 'anything helpful or constructive to add' giving them an opportunity which they declined, in the same way southeastern are refusing to answer legitimate questions and concerns despite all of their disclaimers within them.

 

andy

[fkofilee]

Of course you can reproduce the emails they sent to you... You are taking stuff to literally.

Why not post up their responses in full?

 

Also OC has some wise words.... Instead of fighting with them, put them on your side...

[andy johnsonn]

Disclaimer

 

This email and any attachments (together "this email") are strictly confidential and intended solely for use by the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Unauthorised use of this email (including disclosure, copying and printing for any reason) is strictly prohibited.

 

Southeastern denies any responsibility and liability in relation to the transmission and use of this email to the extent permitted by law. Any views expressed by an individual within this email do not necessarily reflect the views of Southeastern.

[honeybee13]

Andy. have you spoken to people such as Passenger Focus or Transport Focus? They might be interested.

 

HB

[andy johnsonn]

thanks for your suggestion honeybee.

 

as i said my next steps are to contact the local parish magazine a) to warn people and b) to monitor the faults of the ticketing machine.

 

the other step being to contact rail user support groups and i thank you for your suggestions as i have no knowledge of these groups.

 

andy

[honeybee13]

. Let us know how you get on.

 

HB

[Old-CodJA]

I did make clear I shall not comment on the specifics of this thread, but just for clarification, I will respond to direct and inaccurate comment.

 

i think there is little point continuing with the thread. the questions i have raised have not been answered here or by southeastern.

 

I think your point about discontinuing the thread is well made. I also think that this is more to do with your not liking the responses that have been given than any failure to address your queries.

 

even now the last three posts have simply been to support a regular poster rather than addressing the issues.

 

Whilst I and other posters are undoubtedly grateful for supportive comments, I do not come onto this site seeking support, but merely to offer informed practical suggestions wherever possible. I joined the industry in 1977 and have gathered some little knowledge along the way, which I am happy to share if it can be of benefit to others, however I will not bend the truth to provide what someone wants to hear.

 

i simply stated the final comments were nothing more than common trolling which i believe they were.

 

You are as entitled to your opinion as others are to theirs and I am to mine.

 

i hadn't read anyone's profile and neither of the two posters connected with the railways had declared that until i raised the question.

 

My connection to the rail industry revenue protection & prosecutions activities was openly posted with my profile in January 2009. We cannot force you to read or do any research, but neither did I seek to hide anything. 38 years since I joined the former BR and within my role I am very fortunate to have greater freedom & independence than pretty well anyone else that I know in this sector of the business. No-one pays me for, or tells me what to write on any forum and I come here of my own free will.

[andy johnsonn]

thanks for your reply old codger.

 

whilst i do not agree with your comments and find them one-sided you are of course entitled to them.

 

i appreciate you have almost forty years of experience and also appreciate that we are living in a fast changing world. my issues are recent and solely to do with southeastern.

 

it is disappointing that you find it more important to defend yourself rather than tackling the real issues of inadequate ticket purchasing facilities and lack of training being provided by southeastern but that is your prerogative.

 

i have received the final e-mail that i am prepared to accept from southeastern with the wide ranging and unreasonable disclaimers. needless to say they failed to respond to the questions they did not like the look of for the third time.

 

i believe that i have now been more than fair with them and will take the matter up externally, including using some of the helpful advice proffered by honeybee.

 

it seems clear to me that morally they are failing in their handling of the ticketing process and also having an unreliable machine is quite possibly legally failing to provide adequate facilities.

 

whilst i support fully cracking down on fare dodgers their practices are leaving too many non fare dodgers open to getting caught up in the process.

 

my final response to them;

 

RE: Information

 

 

Actions

 

 

andy johnson

 

12:31

 

To: Customer Services

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

dear isaac,

 

thank you for your response which was better reasoned than the second crazy one!

 

however this is being sent with a totally unreasonable disclaimer and many questions have now been ignored on three occasions. in particular the situation of teenagers without bank cards.

 

i feel that i now need to take this outside of southeastern as you are taking a long time to reply and in any case have now been given three chances to respond fully.

 

i have tried to use the ticket machine on four occasions now and twice it has been out of order. whilst i do support your crackdown on fare dodgers if you are providing adequate ticket purchasing facilitities (which i believe you have a legal duty to do) i do not believe that you are doing this. in addition your staff are neither being properly trained nor doing their jobs properly.

 

when i pointed this out to the station master he said there must be something wrong with my card as the machine would let head office know it it was out of order. i used a second card with the same result!

 

when the machine failed previously it showed on the front screen it was 'out of order'. however yesterday that was not the case, it only showed itself as not taking payment on the final screen. i am therefore assuming that as it could not even communicate with itself to say it was out of order it could not do so with head office either, leaving passengers open to penalty fares that they either accept or take a lot of time and effort having them removed.

 

i agree with your final response that the ticket i would require for that journey is maidstone to sandwich, however you seem to have overlooked that i cannot buy this ticket outside of manned hours at harrietsham.

 

it is my view that you are being completely unreasonable asking for the same rates of payment from passengers at harrietsham whilst providing a considerably worse service than at say bearsted. additionally i believe that you are failing to provide adequate ticketing services as laid down by statute.

 

i will no longer reply to e-mails with such a wide and unreasonable disclaimer and will now take the matter up externally as you have been given more than adequate time and opportunity to reply to the points raised.

 

andy