PCM/gladstone claimform -

[jimbojetset68]

Hi all,

 

Just received a Letter Before Claim from Gladstones.

What is my next action on this please?

[ericsbrother]

I bet it isnt, does it say that it is a lba under civil procedure rules or does it skate round that like their usual output?

Post it up and we will tell you which it is.

[jimbojetset68]

Hi Ericsbrother, here is the letter from Gladstones.

[AndyOrch]

Hi Ericsbrother, here is the letter from Gladstones.

 

Attachment unapproved...please obscure any personal/identifiable data before uploading.

 

Andy

[jimbojetset68]

Here it is again redacted.

[ericsbrother]

well, it is and it isnt,

however it would probably be accepted as a lba

but a solicitor really should include all of the information regarding the debt

but they dont because that would ruin things for them.

 

You should respond by saying that the debt is denied in its entirety

on the grounds that PCM have no authority to make such a claim in their own name

as the land is railway land

any infringement would be of railway byelaws, not a contract with an uninterested body.

 

 

Secondly the vehicle was not parked but stationary in traffic

so notwithstanding the above there has been no breach or cause of action anyway.

 

 

As PCM have been made aware of this any action by them would be vexatious

and so a full costs order will be sought should your clients be stupid enough to actually make a claim.

 

Also demand sight of their contract with the landowner under CPR 31.15,

to be furnished within 7 days of the service of this letter as it is believed that CPM have no locus standi.

 

lastly say that you elect to take the matter to Ombudsman Services Ltd for arbitration

as an ADR should their client insist on continuation.

 

Gladstones are desperate to look big on behalf of their IPC clients

as the parking co's are not collecting the money as a result of the IPC appeals system

because no-one take them seriously

 

 

Likewise not using their their rotten ADR will get up their nose.

[jimbojetset68]

Thanks for this info Ericsbrother.

Firstly do I request all the information regarding the debt.

 

Secondly, I am not sure still who owns the road, they have large letters now saying "PRIVATE ROAD" across the road.

New signs have now been added recently too.

[ericsbrother]

the point is they dont own the road and therefore they must be able to produce proof of the right to be there with the landowner.

 

 

Generally they are signed up by an agent

and they dont have the right to make such a contract with the parking co so no contract worth a bean.

 

 

Asking for sight of their right to make a claim against you as a pre action protocol is normal

as if such a contract exists you may well just cough up and avoid the nastiness.

 

 

If Gladdys refuse to play ball then they will look stupid when they ahve to answer questions on this in court

after you ahve made such a cost saving overture.

 

 

However they also ralise that the contract is probably duff

so dont want it shown to the world as the parking co will then lose a claim

and they will lose face with their membership for chasing another doomed claim

at considerable expense to their client.

 

I hope you photographed the previous and new signs.

 

 

If you didnt they may well just say they were there all along.

 

 

Not known to stick to the facts these people.

[jimbojetset68]

I got the County Court Claim form this evening.

Not much space to write a defence.

 

One thing bothering us is the statement.

Registration of judgments: if the claim results in a judgment order against you, it will result in difficulty getting credit.

Does this mean if I lose I go straight on a register?

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

Just to check please, does the form say N1 on it and have Particulars of Claim near the top?

 

HB

[jimbojetset68]

N1SDT CLAIM FORM

 

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM half way down on left side.

Only dates and costs no details of why? And refers to interest in that section also.

 

Here is a copy of the forms, are they compliant please?

[ericsbrother]

that is a proper N1 and the only niggle is they ahve said their claim is for £150 for parking and indemnity costs whenteh clai should be for just whatever the origonal contractual charge was so they are trying it on fro the beginning and making the assumption you will now cave in and pay.

Tick the box saying you are defending in full, you dont need a detailed defence at the moment, just make a couple of bullet points such as

1. the claimaint has no locus standi as the land is either a public highway or railawy land subject to byelaws which were not breached.

2. the defendants vehicle was not parked so there has been no breach of any contract even if it is found that the claimant has a contract with the landowner that assigns the right to enter into contracts with the public.

You can go into much greater detail whne you have to exchange documents at a time ordered by the court.

Gladstones are the IPC so they are trying to show they are the big boys in the parking cowboy world. They lose the defended claims at a great cost to their clients and this will be another company who will wish they hadnt embarked on this venture with them.

[ericsbrother]

now to really screw them ask the local council planning dept if PCM have planning permission for their signs under the Town and Country Planning Act. No PP, and they committing a criminal offence and you cannot be party to a compact with criminality, even if you wanted to.

[jimbojetset68]

Tuesday 12th they aim to do the inspection by.

I did a search and could find no planning for signs on that road for over 3 yrs.

now to really screw them ask the local council planning dept if PCM have planning permission for their signs under the Town and Country Planning Act. No PP, and they committing a criminal offence and you cannot be party to a compact with criminality, even if you wanted to.

[ericsbrother]

ASK the council and get an email response if possible so you have some hard evidence of criminality. Generaly PP for signs that are of less than 0.3m2 are a nod through so wont always pop up on the planning portal, especially as most councils are only uploading recent stuff.

If you get the evidence then when the cowboys have paid the allocation fee write to the court and ask for teh clai to be dismissed do to their criminality and demand a full costs order.

[jimbojetset68]

I found this about station approach.

I did not want to cut and paste if I left something out of importance.

 

http://modgov.hillingdon.gov.uk/documents/s21267/2013-3526%20107%20Station%20Rd%20Hayes.pdf

[ericsbrother]

station approach is railway land.

 

 

As such it is outside the provisions of the PoFA as it will be covered by its own byelaws so the claim by PCM will fail for this reason unless the judge is mislead by someone (often happens).

 

 

HOWEVER, the parking co still need planning permission for their signage and that is not mentioned in this planning application so you need to ASK the council whether PCM have planning consent for their signs.

 

Same point applies. no planning consent and the company is committing a criminal act.

They will always try and claim that it is deemed consent under a different part of the Act but that is not true, the deemed consent is only for informational signs like "fire exit-do not obstruct" and bus stops, the railway station name plate etc not adverts for unilateral contracts.

 

Read the thread on here about the Mansfield retail park and Parking Eye and then use that information to beat the council into submission and get them to admit that planning permission is needed and ideally get them doing something about it.

 

At east you will be able to write another letter of discovery under CPR 31.14 to PCM and demend to see their planning consent and if they cannot produce it you will be able to quote chapter and verse about the criminality of not having it and thus no contract.

[jimbojetset68]

I photographed the old signs, and are in RAW digital negative.

[jimbojetset68]

Hi ericsbrother,

 

Hope you are able to get some relaxation as it is a weekend.

As for the CPR 31.14, can I give PCM a deadline for this information?

Also do I request the info to show that it covers the date of the PCN?

 

Thanks,

 

Jimbo

Ok, so station approach is railway land. As such it is outside the provisions of the PoFA as it will be covered by its own byelaws so the claim by PCM will fail for this reason unless the judge is mislead by someone (often happens). HOWEVER, the parking co still need planning permission for their signage and that is not mentioned in this planning application so you need to ASK the council whether PCM have planning consent for their signs.

Same point applies. no planning consent and the company is committing a criminal act. They will always try and claim that it is deemed consent under a different part of the Act but that is not true, the deemed consent is only for informational signs like "fire exit-do not obstruct" and bus stops, the railway station name plate etc not adverts for unilateral contracts.

Read the thread on here about the Mansfield retail park and Parking Eye and then use that information to beat the council into submission and get them to admit that planning permission is needed and ideally get them doing something about it.

At east you will be able to write another letter of discovery under CPR 31.14 to PCM and demend to see their planning consent and if they cannot produce it you will be able to quote chapter and verse about the criminality of not having it and thus no contract.

[ericsbrother]

Yes, give them 7 days.

[ericsbrother]

as for demanding to see if it covers the date of your PCN, pointless as they wont have applied for it in the interim and then tried to backdate the document or they will need a toothbrush when they turn up for your hearing.

They are mostly lazy and thick so they are unlikely to have the PP.

[jimbojetset68]

I am a little confused please help.

 

If you do not file an application within 14 days of the date of filing this acknowledgement of service, it will be assumed that you accept the court's jurisdiction and judgement may be entered against you.

 

What does this mean, do I have to do two applications?

 

Thanks,

 

Jimbo

[jimbojetset68]

Hi Ericsbrother, there seems to be no place to add the bullet points for the defence on the acknowledgement.

Do I add to a separate sheet, or just send Acknowledgement of Service back to give me more time?

that is a proper N1 and the only niggle is they ahve said their claim is for £150 for parking and indemnity costs whenteh clai should be for just whatever the origonal contractual charge was so they are trying it on fro the beginning and making the assumption you will now cave in and pay.

Tick the box saying you are defending in full, you dont need a detailed defence at the moment, just make a couple of bullet points such as

1. the claimaint has no locus standi as the land is either a public highway or railawy land subject to byelaws which were not breached.

2. the defendants vehicle was not parked so there has been no breach of any contract even if it is found that the claimant has a contract with the landowner that assigns the right to enter into contracts with the public.

You can go into much greater detail whne you have to exchange documents at a time ordered by the court.

Gladstones are the IPC so they are trying to show they are the big boys in the parking cowboy world. They lose the defended claims at a great cost to their clients and this will be another company who will wish they hadnt embarked on this venture with them.

[ericsbrother]

If you are doing the paper form there is a small box that is for outlining your defence. You can send in a separate defence after sending the AOS back but within the next fortnight after the date the AOS has to be back by.

I would send your skeleton defence as an attached letter with the claim number on the top and send a copy to the PCM solicitors so they know that you arent going to just fall over and pay up.. BTW it is railway land and not a public highway but make sure you hammer home the point about planning permission under S30 f the Town and Country Planning Act in your separate CPR 31.14 copied to court so may as well use the same envelope.

After the relevant deadline has passed you will get an allocation questionnaire, where you tell them what dates you arent availabe and what court you want the hearing at. It will be your local county court unless you want another court used because for example, you are disabled and access issues would mean travelling somewhere else.

[jimbojetset68]

I can not open the GOV link for section 30, any where else it might be?

 

Thanks