Monty python justice system

[trebormoinet]

"Protesters who were among almost 50 people arrested following attacks on police and their horses have been told by magistrates to return to court next year - despite refusing to reveal their identities to police or the courts."

The charge

"Refusing to reveal their names to a constable"

 

Wonders how many will return to face trial, still, good to see the tax payers money going to waste.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11981438/Anonymous-protesters-who-refused-to-reveal-identities-to-the-courts-set-free.html

[citizenB]

Seems hardly worth setting a date for a trial if they are not known ?

[trebormoinet]

Can see it now with people en mass turning up shouting

"I am Sparticus" or rather " I am Anonymous"

[fletch70]

I would suspect that there is more to the story than meets the eye. Maybe police now know who these people are through big brother surveillance

[buckthorn]

Apparently their DNA was taken and they were photographed.

But the whole thing was rather stupid, they should have been locked up.

Oh! and their finger prints were taken as well.

Edited November 7, 2015 by buckthorn
add

[fletch70]

So remanded without bail for a crime that probably doesn't carry a prison sentence

 

Now that would make headlines for wasting public money

[obiter dictum]

We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty

 

Accusation is not proof

Conviction depends on evidence and due process of law

[BarnOwl1]

The oafs call themselves anarchists but what they do is not dissent but mindless rioting I'd guess that a large percentage had little idea why they were there!

Let BOJO put out the water cannons on the streets.

They are obviously Cowards masked thugs have no place in this country!

[fletch70]

The oafs call themselves anarchists but what they do is not dissent but mindless rioting I'd guess that a large percentage had little idea why they were there!

Let BOJO put out the water cannons on the streets.

They are obviously Cowards masked thugs have no place in this country!

 

Do they call themselves anarchists?

 

Do they even understand the concept of anarchy?

[BarnOwl1]

General Lawlessness and disorder / the absence of government.

 

Popular it seems with arrogant and ignorant " activist" mobs!

[think about it]

There's another option, of course, lock 'em up until they're reported missing...

[andydd]

Lots of ignorant assumptions here I'm sad to see.

 

Firstly is refusing to give you name worth spending taxpayers money on prosecuting them ?

 

Secondly we have no idea whether they claimed they were 'anarchists' or not, many people on that protest were protesting quite legitimately, and have a legal right to be there, I was going to attend myself. I find it worrying that anyone who dares to attend a protest is now automatically labeled violent, an anarchist or troublemaker in some way. That's an easy way for the government and the media to dismiss the concerns raised.

 

We shall see how many people of those arrested actually face charges, a very small number I bet.

[andydd]

There's another option, of course, lock 'em up until they're reported missing...

 

Thankfully this county isnt North Korea

[think about it]

Thankfully this county isnt North Korea

 

Dammit...

[think about it]

Lots of ignorant assumptions here I'm sad to see.

 

Firstly is refusing to give you name worth spending taxpayers money on prosecuting them ?

 

Secondly we have no idea whether they claimed they were 'anarchists' or not, many people on that protest were protesting quite legitimately, and have a legal right to be there, I was going to attend myself. I find it worrying that anyone who dares to attend a protest is now automatically labeled violent, an anarchist or troublemaker in some way. That's an easy way for the government and the media to dismiss the concerns raised.

 

We shall see how many people of those arrested actually face charges, a very small number I bet.

 

North Korean justice techniques aside I take no issue with anyone who wants to protest in a peaceful and constructive manner. Of course, there's a flip-side to that; I do take issue with those who use a protest as an excuse to carry out criminal acts of damage and violence. That goes for the police as well as those protesting.

 

A million mask march? Hmmm, I'm not sure myself but refer to my first point - no problem if somehow you feel aggrieved. The problem we face is that there is an element that will go out, buy a mask, and with no real concept of what the actual protest is about, take part to create havoc and act as an agent provocateur. Look at those protests in 2011 that became full-scale riots, the image that rests on my mind is the furniture shop in Croydon that was torched and razed to the ground as a result. I fail to see the connection between a furniture shop and the actions of the police in North London. The man who started the fire, Gordon Thompson, had no real concept of what it was to protest, he went simply to cause trouble and in the process destroyed a block of buildings, caused a lady to have to jump for her life out of a first floor flat and put the lives of countless others at risk. Somehow we expect the police to protect us from that element, even those protesting legitimately ought not to be exposed to that kind of threat and it's with that in mind that undoubtedly the police do their job.

 

For then a daft (insert expletive here) to say "I'm not telling you my name, I don't have to..." or better still be one of these freemen-on-the-land (insert another expletive here) and start wittering on about being "of the family" and maritime law/contracts then I'm not surprised that the Police lose patience with them.

 

Of course, I wouldn't dream of detaining someone with no charge, so perhaps it's more fitting to set up a pop-up court and have the magistrate / judge in session and just wheel them in there and then? IF they've got you on-tape doing something daft there's an option, pay your fine or get locked up - don't really care what your name is...

[unclebulgaria67]

If you think about it, changing the voting system to proportional representation would solve a lot of issues.

 

Why ? Because the current first past the post system, generally means either a Labour or Tory government, with less than 40% of the votes. The coalition with Lib Dems may just be a one off. The current government only have the support of 23% of those eligible to vote.

 

If you have a parliament that is more representative of the country, you would have less feeling of alienation and lack of any influence on power. More people would vote in elections and there would be more choice. People would see their votes counted towards a party candidate that represented their views.

 

If we had had PR before the 2010 general election, there is every chance that the government would not have increased student tuition fees by so much. PR at the 2015 election would mean we would not have a majority government, with only minority levels of support.

 

Not saying it would cure all issues and stop all protests, but if we had a better form of democracy it might help.

[think about it]

If you think about it, changing the voting system to proportional representation would solve a lot of issues.

 

Why ? Because the current first past the post system, generally means either a Labour or Tory government, with less than 40% of the votes. The coalition with Lib Dems may just be a one off. The current government only have the support of 23% of those eligible to vote.

 

If you have a parliament that is more representative of the country, you would have less feeling of alienation and lack of any influence on power. More people would vote in elections and there would be more choice. People would see their votes counted towards a party candidate that represented their views.

 

If we had had PR before the 2010 general election, there is every chance that the government would not have increased student tuition fees by so much. PR at the 2015 election would mean we would not have a majority government, with only minority levels of support.

 

Not saying it would cure all issues and stop all protests, but if we had a better form of democracy it might help.

 

+1

[obiter dictum]

People are still missing the point,

 

Be it you are an Anarchist, Student, Business Man, Mary Poppins, You all have that democratic right to go out and protest

 

As long as you comply with the law you have nothing to worry about.

 

Go to any protest you will always have a radical element but how do you define radical, an individual who throws a petrol bomb, a family with their children walking with the march, or or an individual simply wearing a Guy Fawkes mask demonstrating peacefully as a sign of defiance?

 

I must agree with andydd on this and peoples arrogant assumptions

 

The only real anarchists who are a real threat to democracy are those arm chair warriors advocating locking up people who are prepared to go out and protest on the street on what they believe in. That is a democratic and Human Right under English Common Law just like Cable street, Peasants Revolt 1381, 1642 English Civil War, Magna Carta, even the Boston Tea Party 1773. The common denominator being it was the humble citizen revolting against a repressive society of the time,

 

Even violent action can bring about positive change for the better such as the Poll Tax riots. That action brought down a Government going to far with their powers to the detriment of its citizens. Without dissent democracy cannot evolve for the better. Or do you just prefer us to be all good little sheep?.

 

It still has not got to the point yet of Demanding to see your papers in the street by the authorities given the force of law

 

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

 

Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Voltaire biographer

 

Or how about the poem by

 

Martin Niemöller

 

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

George Santayana

 

 

Edited November 9, 2015 by obiter dictum

[Conniff]

If you think about it, changing the voting system to proportional representation would solve a lot of issues.

 

Why ? Because the current first past the post system, generally means either a Labour or Tory government, with less than 40% of the votes. The coalition with Lib Dems may just be a one off. The current government only have the support of 23% of those eligible to vote.

 

If you have a parliament that is more representative of the country, you would have less feeling of alienation and lack of any influence on power. More people would vote in elections and there would be more choice. People would see their votes counted towards a party candidate that represented their views.

 

If we had had PR before the 2010 general election, there is every chance that the government would not have increased student tuition fees by so much. PR at the 2015 election would mean we would not have a majority government, with only minority levels of support.

 

Not saying it would cure all issues and stop all protests, but if we had a better form of democracy it might help.

 

You would have a system like the Italians where they have a government that never gets anything done because none of them can agree. Proportional representation represents no one.

[fletch70]

Conniff

You surely have to admit that the present system is appalling. The Lib Dems received more votes than the SNP yet the SNP have 6 times the number of MP's.

There are many forms voting systems, all of them more representative than the system we now use. The German system (additional member) is possibly a good compromise, it gives representation to the smaller parties while at the same time giving a more stable result. Of the systems that I have examined that seems the best compromise .It is already used for thje Scottish parliament and London Assembly The other system may be STV

[Conniff]

With our present system we study the policies of the present parties and then vote accordingly. When a government has a majority they can then take forward those policies. If we don't like what that government did in power, then we vote them out at the next election. Look at the limited amount of things that could be done because the last parliament was a coalition. The Lib Dems still brag today, "when we were in power" but then never really were.

 

I don't think we can take account of the SNP and the amount of votes they had, a small party that only needed a handful of votes to be the winner. They are not a national party but think they can lay down the policies nationally.

[BarnOwl1]

Lots of ignorant assumptions here I'm sad to see.

 

Firstly is refusing to give you name worth spending taxpayers money on prosecuting them ?

 

Secondly we have no idea whether they claimed they were 'anarchists' or not, many people on that protest were protesting quite legitimately, and have a legal right to be there, I was going to attend myself. I find it worrying that anyone who dares to attend a protest is now automatically labeled violent, an anarchist or troublemaker in some way. That's an easy way for the government and the media to dismiss the concerns raised.

 

We shall see how many people of those arrested actually face charges, a very small number I bet.

 

What exactly were these masked thugs doing then attacking horses and police the majority seemed to be

" joining in" mindless stupidity failure to disperse arrest trial and sentence, otherwise as I said bring on the water cannon especially if this happens when we get some really cold weather.

[andydd]

Huh ?. Were you there, did you see these 3 people attack anyone ?. Making assumptions is not a clever thing to do, we in the UK have a perfect legal right to protest. I think you have been reading too many right wing newspapers.

 

Luckily higher powers have over-ruled Boris' stupid decision to use water canon in the UK, thanks god that people in control of such things are not like you. Using water canon to repress legitimate protests is not something I would endorse.

[BarnOwl1]

Huh ?. Were you there, did you see these 3 people attack anyone ?. Making assumptions is not a clever thing to do, we in the UK have a perfect legal right to protest. I think you have been reading too many right wing newspapers.

 

Luckily higher powers have over-ruled Boris' stupid decision to use water canon in the UK, thanks god that people in control of such things are not like you. Using water canon to repress legitimate protests is not something I would endorse.

 

Yes I saw them attacking police and police horses, throwing stones bottled and lighted fireworks.

 

Just **** nothing more.

[fletch70]

Andy

While on the whole I agree with you, you seem to want to have your cake and eat it. You wish to use the law to give rights of peaceful protest and non use of water canon but want to ignore it when it comes to giving names etc.

 

By the way Anarchy is not what Barnowl seems to suggest I.e violence and people running amok it is a valid political concept.

 

Conniff

I think you really fail to grasp the inadequacies of our electoral system.

The FPTP system effectively disenfranchises many people as following their beliefs makes no difference