Screwfix/shoesmiths claimform - business debt covered by a pers guarantee

[paulo1]

Hi There,

 

recently I had a business which is now being liquidated, no stock, no cash etc, nothing left.

 

I signed a form as a credit application as director when obtaining some goods from screwfix.

 

I have just got a claimform in the post claiming the money, and claiming that I signed a personal guarantee,

this credit application also had my business address and accountants addres, not my home address.

 

My accountant has forwarded this to me, who I also no longer deal with.

 

so should i just ignore this Court form?

 

1, it's not a personal guarantee

2, they don't have my correct address

 

what would happen if i ignore this?

 

any help would be much appreciated.

[obiter dictum]

Do not ignore the court claim form

 

Acknowledge that you are defending in full

 

Respond with the CPR 31.14 Request with a copy of any signed personal Guarantee from them

 

Screwfix will not allow trade goods to be released to a Ltd company without a Personal guarantee

 

A chap i know was made Bankrupt because of screwfix when his business went tits up

[paulo1]

Hi Obiter Dictum,

 

I thought a personal guarantee is a seperate contract?

this was just a credit application form stating this - f

I, the director, agree to guarantee performance of all the company's current

and future financial obligations to Trade UK including any subsequent increase/s in credit limit.

 

surely that's not a personal guarantee!!

 

plus they don't have my address, only my account's address, so how can this be linked to me?

 

thanks

 

Paul

[obiter dictum]

Yes a personal Guarantee is a seperate signed contract but what you signed looks very much like a personal Guarantee but you will need to confirm that. I am not qualified to make that decision

 

That is why you request a copy.

 

Without it they have no case as you were a LTD trading company (Please confirm)

[paulo1]

ahh ok, i understand.

 

yes it was a limited company.

[unclebulgaria67]

I have read this before, that some trade outlets get a personal guarantee signed, so they can still get their money, even if the Ltd company is closed with no assets. Therefore once you see this guarantee, i suspect you may find that you have no option but to come to some payment arrangement.

[paulo1]

ok so i have just done the AOS online, what do i do next.

 

I have a CPR31.14 template, do i just send that off to the solicitors?

 

what do i do online for me case to defend?

 

thanks

 

Paul

[dx100uk]

could you fill this in and paste the Q&A back here please

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-December-2014**(1-Viewing)-nbsp

[AndyOrch]

Thread moved to General Legal Issues

 

Andy

[paulo1]

Name of the Claimant ? - screwfix.

 

Date of issue – - 02nd Nov 2015

 

What is the claim for –

 

No Particulars of claim posted

 

What is the value of the claim? - £2129.07

 

Is the claim for a current account (Overdraft) or credit/loan account or mobile phone account? - no

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007? - after

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. - yes and by the solicitor shoesmiths llp

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? - unsure

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? - no

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? - no

 

Why did you cease payments? - may 2015

 

What was the date of your last payment? may 2015

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? ??

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt managementicon plan? - no

[dx100uk]

is this a debt buyer or screwfix that are the claimant that is important.

[paulo1]

screwfix are the claimant and the solicitor is shoesmiths

[numbers666]

It is a PG. When you signed in capacity for ltd you also signed to indemnify personally. I did the same for and on behalf of my employer - I sign contracts under proxy.

 

Its in the small print above SIG box.

 

Seems to be common practice with trade accounts, to limit their potential losses in the event oif Ltd company insolvency. A very sharp practise.

 

Pretty sure there is a case of a secretary (13k pa) signing one and now having a co on her house.

 

Once you get the paperwork, try to negotiate a Tomlin if all else fails. If circumstance dictate I would go personally bankrupt to screw them over, then they would be in a fix.

[paulo1]

still unsure about it being a PG, i read a case where a judge threw it out as he did not see it fit to be a PG.

 

can anyone advise me how i reply on this? do i send the CPR31.14 form to the solicitors? how do i inform the court about this?

 

any advise welcome.

 

thanks

[unclebulgaria67]

Ask Shoosmiths for a copy of the PG.

You could phone them to see if they have a copy and ask them to send it.

If necessary send Shoosmiths a 31.14 letter asking for it.

 

If you want to defend the claim,

acknowledge it online saying you will defend in full.

 

 

Then wait to see tbe PG and based on what it says decide how to proceed.

 

 

It might help you when drafting your defence.

 

 

If the PG confirms you are liable then you can sort out a payment arrangement with Shoosmiths with a Tomlin which they would write and therefore avoid a CCJ.

 

You can only know how you can proceed, if you see the PG which you are supposed to have signed.

[paulo1]

i sent the letter on the 9th recorded delivery,

they got it the 11th,

 

i've still not heard anything,

 

how should i proceed with it,

 

should i send another request?

[unclebulgaria67]

Phone Shoosmiths chasing up the PG, as they should have it or can get a copy quickly.

 

If they don't supply it by the defence due date, you will have to do a holding defence saying that you dispute liability, as no evidence of any PG has been provided.

[dx100uk]

pers I question the wisdom of phoning the sols or the claimant

they have your 31;14

 

 

and you specifically mentioned sight of the PG in that?

 

 

dx

[unclebulgaria67]

I had a feeling the OP preferred to deal with this at the earliest opportunity rather than let it drag on and into court, if it got that far.

 

The OP does not currently know whether they are personally liable for this debt, as they don't have a copy of the PG.

 

They could simply just enter a holding defence by the relevant date and it would be up to Shoosmiths to prove their case.

[Ganymede]

Hi Obiter Dictum,

 

I thought a personal guarantee is a seperate contract?

this was just a credit application form stating this - f

I, the director, agree to guarantee performance of all the company's current

and future financial obligations to Trade UK including any subsequent increase/s in credit limit.

 

surely that's not a personal guarantee!!

 

plus they don't have my address, only my account's address, so how can this be linked to me?

 

thanks

 

Paul

 

Did the Claimant send this credit application along with the Claim Form?

 

If so what exact are you asking Shoesmiths for now?

[paulo1]

Hi,

 

they only sent a claim form, in the particulars they say the claimant has been provided with a copy of the said guarantee.

 

Regards

[AndyOrch]

Paul if you could provide their particulars of claim verbatim...(less any identifiable information) it would assist all advising...otherwise it will be assumption and guess work.

 

Regards

 

Andyorch

[paulo1]

sure, below is how it's worded:

 

the claimants claim is for monies due from the defendant based upon a personal guarantee dated ...... signed by .........

.Wherein the defendant promised to pay the claimant all monies due to the claimant from the company, should the company default in their payment.

 

 

The company named in the agreement has now defaulted and have not paid the claimant,

and now the claimant seeks to invoke its agreement and seeks payment from the defendant.

the defendant has been provided with a copy of the said guarantee.

 

 

AND the claimant claims the sum of ....... TOGETHER with interest pursuant to section 69 of the county courts act 1984 from .......... to ...........

at 8% per annum being .......... and further interest on daily basis until the date of payment or request for judgement at the rate

stated for the principal sum the daily rate being ......

 

 

. Claimant has complied, as far as is necessary, with the Pr-Action conduct practice direction. costs ........

Edited November 20, 2015 by Andyorch
Hi light

[AndyOrch]

Excellent ...interesting to see they purely rely on the PG as the basis of their claim...so you need disclosure to see if its legally valid.

[unclebulgaria67]

There is a chance Screwfix may not have a copy of the PG and if this was defended all the way, asking them to prove there was a PG, then the OP may avoid this debt, as not proved to be theirs.

 

In the absence of finding the PG, Would Shoosmiths try it on with witness statements saying that PG's are always obtained and it is very unlikely the account would have been accepted without it ?