Colleague gave false details to CEO after dropping cigarette butt.

[JoeyJoeC]

She was stopped in a public place having dropped a butt outside of a shop before going back in. After she came out the shop, 2 men approached her asking to see her immigration documents (shes European and has every right to be here).

 

They both were apparently very aggressive to her.

 

Anyway she gave them a fake name, and an address she lived at many years ago.

 

What could happen now? or is she in the clear?

[Ethel Street]

Are you sure these were Council CEOs? Were they in uniform? Did they show ID?

 

AFAIK Council CEOs aren't entitled to ask for documents confirming your immigration status - see pages 51 and 52 here. Immigration matters are way outside their remit.

 

http://www.mcs.org.uk/ftp/fixed-penalty-guidance.pdf

 

If they were genuine then giving fake address is an additional offence (additional to the original littering) which can be prosecuted in a Magistrates Court. Of course, they have to find her first.....

[unclebulgaria67]

She was stopped in a public place having dropped a butt outside of a shop before going back in. After she came out the shop, 2 men approached her asking to see her immigration documents (shes European and has every right to be here).

 

They both were apparently very aggressive to her.

 

Anyway she gave them a fake name, and an address she lived at many years ago.

 

What could happen now? or is she in the clear?

 

Unless they have her picture, she could just not remember any event, if they come looking. They probably won't bother to chase up. They report and move on.

[JoeyJoeC]

She said they first screamed at her to show documentation then said she committed a serious crime and that she is going to get a criminal record. She tried to explain herself when they said "save it for someone who cares". As far as she knows they didn't record it. She thinks they only identified themselves as working for the council due to the amount of complaints from businesses in the area. She was given a pcn which was filled out with bad details and fake name. She only gave fake details because she was shaken up by it. Shes been quiet all week so just found out that this was the reason!

 

Told her to deny any knowledge of it if they see her again.

[unclebulgaria67]

She said they first screamed at her to show documentation then said she committed a serious crime and that she is going to get a criminal record. She tried to explain herself when they said "save it for someone who cares". As far as she knows they didn't record it. She thinks they only identified themselves as working for the council due to the amount of complaints from businesses in the area. She was given a pcn which was filled out with bad details and fake name. She only gave fake details because she was shaken up by it. Shes been quiet all week so just found out that this was the reason!

 

Told her to deny any knowledge of it if they see her again.

 

Is there any legal obligation to provide identity details to CEO's ? If so, what legislation ?

 

What could they do, if you told them your were Mr D Duck of 1 The Duck Pond ? Would they call the Police and would the Police be interested ? You would just pick up the fag but and put it in a bin. Then tell them to leave or you will call the Police to report them for assault..

[obiter dictum]

As far as i am aware there is no statutory duty to give your details to these rent a cops.

If you refuse they would simply radio CCTV control and get a uniformed copper down to confirm your details

[unclebulgaria67]

As far as i am aware there is no statutory duty to give your details to these rent a cops.

If you refuse they would simply radio CCTV control and get a uniformed copper down to confirm your details

Just walk away. They cannot detain you and they won't wait around wasting time.

[obiter dictum]

They can detain you under common law if they suspect an indictable offence has been committed until a police constable arrives on the scene

 

Section 24A PACE 1984

 

An idictable offence is not a summary offence which is dealt with at the Magistrates court.

An indictable offence can only be dealt with at the Crown court

 

This will be a "Quasi" strict liability or Bye law offence dropping the ciggie butt and dealt with by either a fixed penalty notice or trial at the magistrates court

 

If they detain you by force then that will be unlawful detention and you can then sue the pants off the Local Authority

 

BUT:

 

The way they get around this is using section 3 Criminal Law Act 1967

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1967/58/section/3

Edited November 5, 2015 by obiter dictum

[JoeyJoeC]

Many thanks. So they can't detain you if you walk away?

 

Shes worried that they will see her again, but even then all she has to do is deny any knowledge of it? They wont have a leg to stand on without any proof?

[obiter dictum]

No

 

They CAN detain you if you walk away under section 3(1)(2) Criminal Law Act 1967

[caledfwlch]

Is there any legal obligation to provide identity details to CEO's ? If so, what legislation ?

 

What could they do, if you told them your were Mr D Duck of 1 The Duck Pond ? Would they call the Police and would the Police be interested ? You would just pick up the fag but and put it in a bin. Then tell them to leave or you will call the Police to report them for assault..

 

I believe it is a offence, though can not recall if its "Criminal" to give false details/

 

When I worked for a City Council, the Intranet had a weekly news thing gloating about all the litter fines issued, and there were usually 2 or 3 a week who had given false details and been tracked and identified by CCTV.

[JoeyJoeC]

A lot of effort to go through don't you think?

[caledfwlch]

A lot of effort to go through don't you think?

 

To a normal person, absolutely.

 

To a Council Manager determined to build a profitable revenue stream, just from having a couple of people walking the streets? No problem at all.

 

I would amend the old phrase "Crime doesn't pay" to "Crime doesn't pay, unless your a Civil Servant able to issue fines"

[Ethel Street]

Is there any legal obligation to provide identity details to CEO's ? If so, what legislation ?

 

Environmental Protection Act 1990 s88 (8B)

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/43/section/88