What is a vulnerable person/group?

[mikeymack2002]

As far as the national standards goes that is often just ignored is it not? That too has been discussed and left to die.

 

So from 2 posters stating that vulnerable people have little or no protection it's confirmed again this morning.

 

On the CAB website regarding the EA it clearly states the law protects the vulnerable. So from these 2 posters it is now very apparent that the discussion about this subject is taboo and should not be discussed openly on a forum.

 

It appears from that lack of support for the vulnerable group appears you both prefer that enforcement continues regardless, this in my view means your full support to enforcement is high on your priority list.

[mikeymack2002]

In regards to s77 it is a guidance only is it not? it clearly states this on the first page.

 

This national guidance does not replace local agreements, existing agency codes of practice or legislation; rather it sets out what the Ministry of Justice, those in the industry and some major users regard as minimum standards.

 

 

These are just about what is expected but not required. furthermore it also states this

 

We recognise this document is not legally binding, but offer it as a helpful tool for the industry and for creditors.

 

 

As we all know guidance's are not worth the paper they are written on.

 

 

Both CD/DB I am not trying to annoy you but point out there are flaws and I think this is wrong, which is why discussion is good, ideas banded around could add to a better clarification on this matter.. Ultimately are we going to make a shred of difference discussing this I think not.

 

 

[ploddertom]

As far as the national standards goes that is often just ignored is it not? That too has been discussed and left to die.

 

So from 2 posters stating that vulnerable people have little or no protection it's confirmed again this morning.

 

On the CAB website regarding the EA it clearly states the law protects the vulnerable. So from these 2 posters it is now very apparent that the discussion about this subject is taboo and should not be discussed openly on a forum.

 

It appears from that lack of support for the vulnerable group appears you both prefer that enforcement continues regardless, this in my view means your full support to enforcement is high on your priority list.

 

What a load of rubbish. I for one have championed the cause of vulnerability for more than 1 person as have others. I refuse to deal with potential scenarios.

 

Each situation is different - there is no one size fits all.

[brassnecked]

What a load of rubbish. I for one have championed the cause of vulnerability for more than 1 person as have others. I refuse to deal with potential scenarios.

 

Each situation is different - there is no one size fits all.

Exactly PT, in each case present the facts, provide the proof, it isn't debt avoidance as some seem to think to claim vulnerability, it is a factor in debt management, and is a consideration in any payment plan. For an EA to ignore vulnerability and carry on hard with enforcement against someone with say severe learning difficulties with an assigned Social Worker, and the council in full knowledge of a real vulnerable situation would be a foolhardy option, especially if the Press or say Watchdog got hold of it

[Coughdrop]

As far as the national standards goes that is often just ignored is it not? That too has been discussed and left to die.

 

So from 2 posters stating that vulnerable people have little or no protection it's confirmed again this morning.

 

On the CAB website regarding the EA it clearly states the law protects the vulnerable. So from these 2 posters it is now very apparent that the discussion about this subject is taboo and should not be discussed openly on a forum.

 

It appears from that lack of support for the vulnerable group appears you both prefer that enforcement continues regardless, this in my view means your full support to enforcement is high on your priority list.

 

100% wrong. I have fought very hard for vulnerable people on numerous occasions. What may appear to be the case to you, and what is the case in reality are two entirely different things.

[Coughdrop]

Do you enjoy inflaming discussions to try to create argument, as you have a true talent for it?

 

I think we are all aware the National Standards are guidance. Equally, most, if not all authorities expect their appointed EA's to abide by them.

 

Please understand nothing can ever be set in stone regarding vulnerability as it is dealt with on a case by case basis. It is that simple. I agree it can be frustrating, but there we go. There can never be a definitive list.

 

Over and out!

[mikeymack2002]

What list of vulnerable persons carries more weight? A list within an Act of Parliament or a list within a non legally binding document? I know which one I would rely on!

 

That much is obvious...

[Peterbard]

What list of vulnerable persons carries more weight? A list within an Act of Parliament or a list within a non legally binding document? I know which one I would rely on!

 

That much is obvious...

 

A list which addressed the subject at hand. Not some unrelated legislation that addressed other procedures.

[mikeymack2002]

Wow the above post could cause annoyance but what can one say?

 

Since we ARE discussing vulnerable people this is indeed very relevant

[fletch70]

Glorian

 

Can I ask what your qualifications are for diagnosing someone over the internet when you have never met them?

 

NPD is a recognised disorder however like many psychological disorders it is a spectrum and frankly I think there is a little bit of it in everyone .

 

I have to say as well, some of your posts could be taken as being written by someone with NPD. You have already upset many on this forum , site team included with your frankly outrageous accusations and opinions of people with mental health issues

 

With reference to NPD, far from being self aware, may i suggest you look in the mirror.

 

A quote from http://psychcentral.com/disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder-symptoms/

 

Narcissistic Personality Disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of grandiosity (either in fantasy or actual behavior), an overwhelming need for admiration, and usually a complete lack of empathy toward others.

[mikeymack2002]

fletch70 thanks for the link I will read it tomorrow..

[brassnecked]

I give up I feel like going off to become a bailiff too much tit for tat on here, In fact I feel like I might even be high on that Autistic spectrum myself with a touch of bloody mindedness , no empathy no consideration of others I have had enough.

 

Damn I might even be vulnerable.

 

If you can't beat then join them.

[Glorian]

Glorian

 

Can I ask what your qualifications are for diagnosing someone over the internet when you have never met them?

 

NPD is a recognised disorder however like many psychological disorders it is a spectrum and frankly I think there is a little bit of it in everyone .

 

I have to say as well, some of your posts could be taken as being written by someone with NPD. You have already upset many on this forum , site team included with your frankly outrageous accusations and opinions of people with mental health issues

 

With reference to NPD, far from being self aware, may i suggest you look in the mirror.

 

A quote from http://psychcentral.com/disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder-symptoms/

 

I hold an MA in Psychology as it happens, but lets not get involved in a xick swinging competition, as I already said this isn't about me but about Dodgeball and helping him, gently, realise that he can never accept he might be in error. Such behaviour is pathological and usually indicates a mental health issue.

I've read this forum for a while and it seems he never actually offers advice but only responds to create conflict or boost his own ego.

However I realise I'm now guilty of the same so will bow out disgracefully and await my banning! Boo hoo!

[mikeymack2002]

I did the test within the link and only scored 5

[brassnecked]

I did the test within the link and only scored 5

 

Oh carp score 16, best be off.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

I hold an MA in Psychology as it happens, but lets not get involved in a xick swinging competition, as I already said this isn't about me but about Dodgeball and helping him, gently, realise that he can never accept he might be in error. Such behaviour is pathological and usually indicates a mental health issue.

I've read this forum for a while and it seems he never actually offers advice but only responds to create conflict or boost his own ego.

However I realise I'm now guilty of the same so will bow out disgracefully and await my banning! Boo hoo!

 

Can I have a link to look at the MA in Psychology course that you did? Is it a full day course or a half day course?

[Peterbard]

I hold an MA in Psychology as it happens, but lets not get involved in a xick swinging competition, as I already said this isn't about me but about Dodgeball and helping him, gently, realise that he can never accept he might be in error. Such behaviour is pathological and usually indicates a mental health issue.

I've read this forum for a while and it seems he never actually offers advice but only responds to create conflict or boost his own ego.

However I realise I'm now guilty of the same so will bow out disgracefully and await my banning! Boo hoo!

 

You have an MA , impressive, is there a treatment you can recommend for delusional fantasy ?

[brassnecked]

You have an MA , impressive, is there a treatment you can recommend for delusional fantasy ?

A bottle of bourbon a small glass & some ice Lloyd

 

Jeez I must be depressed to post this garbage, Am I vulnerable? No not in your world DB but the EA might be calling on a person with potentially violent tendencies with a baseball bat by the door.

 

By my missive above does anyone get the fact that this thread has degenerated to tit for tat?

Edited November 5, 2015 by brassnecked
Upset people

[brassnecked]

Really? This thread has evolved until some are now recommending someone commit suicide. Bit much dont you think? Time to close the thread maybe?

Yes close it because this thread has removed my will to live. I have the baseball bat handy. Have removed the suicide bit above, but am leaving this Forum it has become silly.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Mostly, this thread appears to be about vulnerabilities not relating to EA's and enforcement, and the bullying of others. I thought this was supposed to be a supportive, informative and compassionate site?

[stu007]

OK Enough is Enough this STOPS NOW

 

Get back to the topic been discussed.

[brassnecked]

Mostly, this thread appears to be about vulnerabilities not relating to EA's and enforcement, and the bullying of others. I thought this was supposed to be a supportive, informative and compassionate site?

It is but I went to extremes to try to pull them up short and consider the realities. One poster seems to think or so it would seem that Vulnerability is of no consequence once Compliance passed, and whatever the issue Enforcement must continue, as they had their chance and blew it. now how many bailiffs have had to sort it when they are sent to enforce and it becomes clear the council screwed up, knew about a vulnerable situation but sent you in anyway?

[mikeymack2002]

Grumpy long time no see. The original question was to find out why there is a difference between groups of vulnerable people. The definition is all over the place.

 

I was hoping to be able to use the information that is used in law and not in a guidance. This got lost some how..

 

As I said it is a very tough subject to discuss. As an EA do you think differently?

[Peterbard]

 

I was hoping to be able to use the information that is used in law and not in a guidance. This got lost some how..

 

 

Didn't get lost, it was just a misconceived idea, unless the law you refer to is about enforcment

[stu007]

I wonder if it may be useful to break it down slightly as well?

 

i.e.

 

1. What process does an EA have to take if informed of vulnerable person/Group?

 

2. What action does a Debtor have to take to prove to an EA that they are a vulnerable person/group?