A S Parking keep demanding I name driver despite my appeal as the owner.

[Liverpool59]

Hi, first time posting so I will try to be concise.

 

I received a PCN from AS Parking for £100. They are based in Newquay, Cornwall.

 

 

On this occasion, 01.10.15, I parked my vehicle in a bay near to my friends house.

To paint a picture, he lives in a brand new estate in Pool, Camborne, right next to the Heartlands centre.

 

 

A lot of the areas outside these new properties are permit only parking.

This is clear by the signs.

 

 

Over the course of the summer I parked in a series of bays opposite a building site

where the houses were nowhere near finished.

There were no parking restrictions.

 

 

On the night in question I parked in the same place and returned to find a ticket.

The sign must have gone up within the month that I last visited.

 

 

I have many photos of the poor signage that was impossible to see,

no road markings and the surrounding area.

 

 

It was pitch black, even on the pcn they have not recorded the colour of my veh.

I wrote to appeal using a Martin Lewis template stating no contract was formed for reasons mentioned.

 

They replied stating I had to name the driver for the appeal to proceed.

I wrote back stating as the owner of the vehicle there was no legal requirement for me to do so,

and also requested they answer the points raised in the original letter

and to send me the photos they have of my vehicle under the data protections act 1998.

They then just sent an exact copy of their first letter with a couple of paragraphs highlighted.

 

1) Do I have to name the driver or does my appeal as the owner stand?

2) When they inevitably send the 'notice to owner', shall I just appeal as I have done before?

3) Shall I report them for ignoring my written request for pictures under the data protections act?

 

I am quite prepared to go to court if it comes to it.

 

Many thanks for your help.

 

Liverpool59

[BazzaS]

Hi, first time posting so I will try to be concise.

 

I received a PCN from AS Parking for £100. They are based in Newquay, Cornwall. On this occasion, 01.10.15, I parked my vehicle in a bay near to my friends house. To paint a picture, he lives in a brand new estate in Pool, Camborne, right next to the Heartlands centre. A lot of the areas outside these new properties are permit only parking. This is clear by the signs. Over the course of the summer I parked in a series of bays opposite a building site where the houses were nowhere near finished. There were no parking restrictions. On the night in question I parked in the same place and returned to find a ticket. The sign must have gone up within the month that I last visited. I have many photos of the poor signage that was impossible to see, no road markings and the surrounding area. It was pitch black, even on the pcn they have not recorded the colour of my veh. I wrote to appeal using a Martin Lewis template stating no contract was formed for reasons mentioned.

 

They replied stating I had to name the driver for the appeal to proceed. I wrote back stating as the owner of the vehicle there was no legal requirement for me to do so, and also requested they answer the points raised in the original letter and to send me the photos they have of my vehicle under the data protections act 1998. They then just sent an exact copy of their first letter with a couple of paragraphs highlighted.

 

1) Do I have to name the driver or does my appeal as the owner stand?

2) When they inevitably send the 'notice to owner', shall I just appeal as I have done before?

3) Shall I report them for ignoring my written request for pictures under the data protections act?

 

I am quite prepared to go to court if it comes to it.

 

Many thanks for your help.

 

Liverpool59

 

Have you received a Notice to Keeper (NtK)?

If not : why are you engaging in "letter tennis" with them : it only serves to identify you as the driver or (at least) being aware of the "ticket" (Notice to Driver, NtD).

 

No, you are under no obligation to identify the driver. All that happens if you don't is that they MIGHT be able to claim "keeper liability" which they can't if you were to identify the driver. I stress MIGHT, as there are still plenty of areas where their attempts to claim keeper liability can fall flat from.

 

If you want to pursue them under the DPA : did you send them a properly formatted DPA SAR, with the prescribed fee?

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

The reason AS Parking won't accept an appeal from the keeper is because they are members of the IPC and they don't want to recognise PoFA however, as they choose not to bother with PoFA, they will have a ruddy hard job if they tried this on in court.

 

As far as I can tell, they haven't taken any cases to court this year. They just rely on consumer ignorance.

 

My advice,Ignore totally unless a 'Letter Before Action' or a court claim arrives.

[Liverpool59]

Thank you both of you.

 

Bazza, I did not send a properly formatted dpa letter to them, just a request. I have not received a ntk. I have to admit I was not going to reply initially but succumbed to my desire to play them at their own game. Wrong, I know. I will not be engaging in any more correspondence. Unless of course a letter before action or court claim advised by silverfox1961.

 

Interestingly on their pcn they have a logo stating they are members of the BPA as well. That is PoFa, isn't it?

 

Cheers for your advice.

[silverfox1961]

Oh dear me, even the ticket is non compliant.

 

Athens Security Services (trading as AS Parking) moved from the BPA to the IPC on 1/5/2015 so any ticket showing the BPA logo is rubbish.

 

If you really want to play with them, a bit of letter tennis is always good for a laugh. Bring them up on their shortcomings and see how they try to wriggle out of it.

[Liverpool59]

Thanks.

I have to admit I find it hard not to engage in letter tennis, especially when I believe they are talking porky's.

 

I think I will probably just ignore the letters and see if they drop it. Out of interest, Martin Lewis states that it can only ever be dealt with in a civil court due to the nature of breaking a contract. Is this right. Several of the threads are about County court actions by the parking firms.

 

Regards.

[silverfox1961]

The county court is there to deal with civil claims. Private parking cases are civil by the nature of contract law, nothing to do with parking in council owned car parks or street parking which are a Penalty Charge, not a Parking Charge.

 

The private parking companies love it that they can label their tickets as a PCN as that will confuse the motorist even more.

[Liverpool59]

Ok, that's great, thank you.

 

If, and that's a big if, a court claim arrives, I take it I go through the process of filling out whatever is required while putting together my case? Going on what you have stated it will never arrive but it's worth arming myself with knowledge beforehand.

[silverfox1961]

Ok, that's great, thank you.

 

If, and that's a big if, a court claim arrives, I take it I go through the process of filling out whatever is required while putting together my case? Going on what you have stated it will never arrive but it's worth arming myself with knowledge beforehand.

 

Definitely big if! You will likely get a claim form from Northampton court bulk claims section where you can go online to defend it. I don't think there will be anything to worry about.

 

While you are checking things out, see who are the directors of the IPC and of the solicitor company that IPC members choose to use (a lot). That company is Gladstones. I know but I think it a great treat when peeps find out for themselves.

 

Also, check out the Parking Prankster

[Liverpool59]

Oh my god, surely not.

 

I'm off to look up the word ' independent' again in the dictionary.

 

That's ridiculous. The same address, bar three buildings. Unreal.

[Liverpool59]

So, Silverfox, just to clarify:

 

1) When I receive the ntk, shall I ignore it?

2) When someone receives a ntk, are they entitled to appeal the same as a driver?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

Liverpool59

[silverfox1961]

As this is an IPC member, it is likely they will say the 21 day appeal period has passed for the driver to appeal. They make no mention of the keeper appeals although you can. Once they have rejected you, an appeal to the IAS is next although AS won't mention it. The IAS will likely reject you too as (it would seem) that Gladstones appoint the assessors to hear appeals but they are biased against the motorist even if you provide proof of your claim.

 

The IAS believe that it's members can do no wrong and would never lie in an appeal but on the other hand, motorists are underhanded cheats who will do anything to get out of paying.

[Liverpool59]

Thank you.

 

When the ntk arrives and I appeal to the IAS, shall I tell AS what I am doing?

 

I suppose if not then it would be a case of waiting for them to make a claim against me or drop it. What I don't want to do is overthink or overdo it.

 

I guess I will just await their next play and keep you informed.

[silverfox1961]

As I read your first post, you have appealed as the keeper, not the driver so they may not even send a NTK (if they think they can get away with it) If you don't receive anything by the end of this month, they will have timed themselves out. The NTK must be received within 29 and 56 days after the event.

 

If they do send an NTK, you have to appeal through them first (again) before you can go to the IAS.

 

You will have plenty of grounds

 

Non compliant ticket (they will ignore that the ticket has BPA on it instead of IPC)

Insufficient signage (they will deny this)

No lighting (they expect you to have a torch and go out of your way to ensure you read the signs)

No authority to give out tickets ( hard to prove as the IAS will accept their word for it)

 

Photocopy everything you intend to send to both AS and the IAS

[Liverpool59]

Just to clarify, on their ticket they had both badges for IPC and BPA but on their letters they have IPC.

 

What do you mean by no authority to give the ticket?

 

All of the letters I have sent are digitised, so are all the photos. Everything is stored and copied.

 

Thanks for all your help.

[armadillo71]

A PPC can have corporate membership of the BPA but not its AOS.

 

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/membership-for-organisations

 

It would then have to be a member of the IPC AOS to have access to the DVLA database and access your personal details.

 

If a PPC does not own the land it is operating on, then it must have a contract with the landowner that gives it the authority to issue tickets and pursue them.

[ericsbrother]

IPC mambers do not like obeying the PoFA, they are advised that it doesnt apply to them and the IAS appeals procedure. Rubbish!. AS parking's notices to keeper are rarely PoFA compliant so easily defeated if they were stupid enough to want to go to court but they dont really want to as they lose. They threaten it as you are more likely to waver and earn them some money but court for them is a busted flush.

[Liverpool59]

Thanks everyone, I'll keep you posted on developments.

[Liverpool59]

Hi everyone. Just to keep you updated, I have today received a notice to keeper from AS Parking. It is dated 27th Nov. This means it is even out of the range of dates Silverfox mentioned, 29-56 days?? (1st Oct). It contains the usual you said would happen, that I am out of time to appeal and that they have the right to recover from me, the owner, the monies not paid. They state I can still appeal to them under exceptional circumstances but obviously this is a waste of time. They do state I could complain to them in the first instance and then the IPC.

I have no intention of paying this, so I guess I should just ignore it from here on in?

What do you think.

I am quite prepared to go to court, even though I don't think it will.

Thanks

[silverfox1961]

Well, if ever they did try it on in court, the 'out of time' statement would stuff em for sure. They may not follow PoFA but when it comes to court, the judge would want to know why they hadn't followed the procedure and most likely strike out the claim.

 

Remember, the IPC members must follow the rules set out in PoFA to give them access to the DVLA database.

[Liverpool59]

Thanks.

From the date of notice, Oct 1st to the date of the letter, Nov 27th, it's 57 days. I only received it today.

Would you advise ignore or drag it out and appeal to AS Parking again?

[armadillo71]

Thanks.

From the date of notice, Oct 1st to the date of the letter, Nov 27th, it's 57 days. I only received it today.

Would you advise ignore or drag it out and appeal to AS Parking again?

 

You don't have to appeal to anyone now.

 

You can write to AS stating that as the criteria for keeper liability under schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 have not been met, then as RK you are not liable for this charge. Foxtrot Oscar. Or words to that effect... but you don't have to.

 

Either way you will receive numerous begging/threatening letters.

[Liverpool59]

Thanks armadillo71, I think I will write to them with words to that effect. Should be fun.

Regards

Liverpool59

[Liverpool59]

Hi everyone.

It's now been six months and I have received a 'final notice' letter from AS Parking.

They state they are now looking to initiate their debt recovery process. They say it is a final reminder and give various options to pay. They go on to say they will have to instruct their solicitors, (The ones who are directors of IPA) to initiate enforcement action. They state a further £50 will be added to the £100 and further enforcement action and costs may follow including, but not limited to, County Court action.

 

Now as I have always said, I am quite prepared to go to court as I have a very strong case. They don't even send these letters by recorded delivery so how can they prove I have received them?

And why on Earth have they waited SIX months? Has someone just stumbled across this in Admin and thought they would try it on.

 

I guess the only thing I don't want is to find out from my wife that they have sent someone around to my door when I am at work. If I am there then they will have a bit of a shock. Can they do that?

 

Is this just another empty threat, hoping I will cave?

 

Thanks for your help everyone.

[Liverpool59]

Out of interest, if it goes to court, and they win, and I of course pay the money, does this still count as a county court judgement against me? The type you see asked when you apply for credit cards, insurance and mortgages etc?