lowell/cohen Claim Form - Orange 'debt'

[issie56]

I don't know for sure.

 

 

My internet account is different to this one and I can't remember what my mobile account was because I never got contract,

just an invoice for my phone from the car phone warehouse telling me that Orange would be my supplier.

I never missed any payments (£10.50 monthly). It all went wrong when they put all of the accounts together!

 

This, will be for early cancellation charges re my phone which were in effect forced on me because of their refusal to accept payment alone.

They promised to sort it out and never did, but without the telephone transcripts of course I can't prove this!

 

 

Lesson learnt here, I never have a mobile phone with the same company as my internet!

If the worst case scenario happens and I have to go to court,

could I appeal a CCJ on the grounds of the internet thing?

 

 

Also, with the going to court thing, my illness is unpredicatable and if they set a court date and I am ill what would happen?

 

I am in the support group for ESA and worry that if anything happens to me,

this will pass to my children (which is why I am fighting this) and

 

 

at the moment, I am working to be completely debt free in case the inevitable comes sooner rather than later

 

issie56

[AndyOrch]

So you are not sure if the claim refers to internet service or mobile phone...you need to establish what the above account number refers to then before you submit a defence.

 

Andy

[issie56]

I am sure it applies to cancellation of mobile phone charge! This has been confirmed to me.

But is complicated by the fact that they cancelled my contract not me, because the accounts were put together! I wanted to continue to pay.

 

 

This is why I am not wanting to admit to it, because I had no choice in the matter,

pay all the outstanding amount for that month, phone and internet that I did not have or my account would be suspended,

regardless of whether I paid my normal monthly payment of £10.50 as it would still leave the internet balance.

 

 

As I said in previous posts,

they said they would sort it out and rebill me!

They never did this and instead cancelled my account!

 

 

I wanted to carry on just paying for my mobile phone each month, as I said the internet thing complicated this on their part.

 

 

What ever happens, I know this is down to them not me.

 

 

I was told it would be sorted, i.e. internet account cancelled with no charges and mobile phone to continue paying.

 

issie56

[issie56]

Cohen and Cramer were very vague, but said it looked like a mobile phone account not an internet account! The payment dates they quoted would support this.

[AndyOrch]

Stick with the defence posted at #40 then ...disregard the above.

[issie56]

Also,

this is why I said in my defence that I neither admit or deny this paragraph and in effect needed clarification which is why I sent a CPR31.14.

And this is why I said I would be in a better position to defend when I had this information from Lowell in writing,

i.e. I could resubmit my defence should it come to light afterwards that this is not after all for a mobile phone early finish charge

(it is not for non-payment of my contract because I was up-to-date - never missed a payment, which I can prove).

[issie56]

Sorry to be dim, do you mean the one that dx kindly sorted for me? i.e. the last one posted last night before today's one?

 

Thank you so much for all your help, you and everyone!

 

issie56:-)

[AndyOrch]

Yes post# 40...but lose the neither admit or deny ...just deny...tends to get up District Judges noses.

[dx100uk]

no harm in ringing orange and asking.

 

 

atleast they will be able to tell you what the account number in the POC relates too.

 

 

dx

[issie56]

Okay! that's what I thought, innocent till proven guilty I guess My daughter has just shown me how to find post numbers

 

Will send tomorrow, as I don't think I will receive anything from Lowell and chums by the court deadline anyway.

 

I will update you as to the outcome.

 

Many thanks

issie56

[issie56]

I did, they said they couldn't find the account and referred me back to Lowell, I ask Cohen but they were not giving much away! Is this a normal response?

[dx100uk]

yes very much so.

 

 

it shows there something fishy going on here

 

 

cannot orange simply confirm what the number refers too though {phone or internet dongle]

cant see why they cant tell you that.

 

 

dx

[issie56]

They just said to go back to Lowell.

I went to Cohen, they were quite acccurate about dates,

I only had my dongle whilst I waited for my internet to be set up.

 

 

Once I ordered internet this was deactivated (no contract for my dongle this was pay-as-you go).

 

 

The scant information from Cohen points to my mobile phone,

last payment in June 2012 when my internet installation was attempted.

 

 

Couldn't pay in July 2012 (could but still a balance for my non-existent internet) and so it went to deadlock!

 

 

My defence should be okay though?

At worst, if not, I should have a future opportunity to explain what I have explained to you guys!

with stuff to back it up.

 

issie56

[issie56]

Hi DX

 

I am just putting together my final draft of my defence to send later today.

 

 

I think I asked this question before - does Section 82a of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 apply to an unregulated mobile phone account.

 

 

My interpretation of this part of the act is that it is inapplicable, and only applies to regulated accounts.

 

 

You are the experts though, so have I got this completely wrong?

 

 

Can I definitely quote this this section of the CCA in my defence?

Or should I take it out?

(sorry, in a past life before nature took its toll I was an academic so asking questions is second nature).

 

Many thanks for your help!!

 

issie56

[dx100uk]

that's the std def

used loads of times on mobile claims.

 

 

simply go check others yourself here

 

 

dx

[shamrocker]

issie - could you post up the defence you are planning on submitting please? It will be easier to get some responses on it then.

 

Your situation is quite unusual, so I'd be careful to ensure you have scope to expand upon it so as to include the details of your dispute when you come to witness statement stage.

 

Sham

[issie56]

Hi Sham

 

You are completely spot on with this. I have studied over the past few days in some detail the necessary statutes. I have made clear that I neither admit or deny (As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (1b) the claim. I have stated that as the Claimant's statement of case fails to give adequate information I am unable to properly assess my position with regards to the claim.

 

I have not received the information requested via CPR.31.14, as such I have added that

 

'I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.

 

In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment'.

 

I feel this is sufficient to give me scope to expand upon it as you suggest. Thank you for this! I have taken the decision not to include the Consumer Credit Act in my defence as my interpretation of the act is that it is inapplicable to the claim, since the statement of claim refers to an unregulated account. I don't think in the larger scheme of things its inclusion or exclusion will impact on my final defence.

 

issie56

[issie56]

Re Consumer Credit Act - Sorry, I mean neither it inclusion or exclusion. At the end of the day I am just seeking a fair outcome that can only come about if I defend it properly win or lose.

 

issie56

[shamrocker]

You can't really not deny the claim in my view, as you categorically do not owe anything due to Orange terminating the contract after rejecting your attempts to make payment for the phone account. Therefore, you should deny the claim.

 

All you need to do in my view, is angle your defence in such a way that it is clear that the service provider has mucked up - this being done in your witness statement at a later stage. You have written 90% of your witness statement in post #1.

 

The CCA, as I understand it, doesn't apply to mobile phone contracts. So, I think you are correct there.

 

Just go ahead and submit the standard 'prove it / no paperwork' defence that's been used many times on here. It will push them to supply key documentation later and probably also cause them to have second thoughts about pursuing this any further.

 

Post whatever you're considering submitting as your defence here first so we can have a quick look before you submit it. I haven't got time today to go looking for a good example for you...think you have one on an earlier page anyway.

 

Once your defence is in you can chill for a while. At the next stage you can turn the screw on them.

 

Sham

[issie56]

Hi Sham

 

I am using the standard one used. See earlier posts yesterday.

 

I do intend to use the defence in my witness statement that I put in the first post.

 

I have started to redraft this.

 

I have just submitted it my defence.

So will wait and see.

 

From what I read last night online, it seem that DCA's buy debts in job lots and send them out speculatively in the hope they can either secure judgement by default or get an admission.

 

It seems rare that once asked for proof of the debt that they actually continue to pursue it.

 

Thank you so much of all your help, and DX (even though I get stuck with your abbreviations thank heavens for google!) and Andyorch

 

I am sure it will turn out ok in the end.

 

Will keep you posted

 

issie56

[shamrocker]

Yes, they rarely succeed in these sort of claims when some resistance is put up.

They profit from naivety, fear, confusion....even bare-faced lies.

 

 

Your case is slightly different in that you didn't just decide to stop paying on a mobile phone contact,

and now they're trying to claim payment for the remainder of the contract.

 

 

I think it's safe to say that you shouldn't have much problem successfully challenging this

- but, there again, why should you even have to.

 

 

I can't stand some of these utilities companies just as much as I do for DCA's and their ilk.

 

I wouldn't bother with concerning yourself too much with the witness statement for the moment.

 

 

There'll be plenty of time ahead.

 

 

Just keep one eye on things and post any developments up here (if you need to).

 

Sham

[issie56]

Hi Sham

 

Thanks! Yes, from what I have read on the forums they tend to target the very vulnerable and with legal aid almost non-existent - someone has to step in! these forums do a good job, I am impressed.

 

issie56

[AndyOrch]

Could you please copy the defence you have submitted here issie56

 

Regards

 

Andy