Austerity is just a con..

[Consumer dude]

It doesn't apply to everyone does it..

[SabreSheep]

The problem is that the basis for it and results of it are all manipulated

 

Unemployment Figures - Should be replaced with UNDER employment Figures

GDP rising - How much is driven by the housing market

CPI and RPI - one of these excludes housing costs, guess which one is used by GOV

[obiter dictum]

They do not seem to use that line

 

"We are all in it together" anymore, do they?

 

Not since that 10 % pay rise

 

Seems the works of Orwell are now unacceptable, even on an internet forum.

Newspeak tentacles get into every crevasse of society to the censor

 

 

(Edit)

 

 

Edited October 30, 2015 by Andyorch
Derogatory reference removed

[Consumer dude]

'Don't do what I do, just do as I say'..

[citizenB]

 

•Austerity is self-defeating. In a recession, governments who cut spending hard, have seen a large fall in nominal GDP. E.g. in 2011, Greece had a fall of 6% in GDP. This has led to a shrinking of tax revenues. Debt to GDP has continued to rise. In other words, austerity has reduced economic growth so much that the budget deficit has failed to improve.

•Recession is not the time for austerity. Austerity should be pursued when there is strong economic growth.

•Canada’s deficit reduction was successful because it could loosen monetary policy, devalue exchange rate and benefit from strong export demand to US and rest of world. Many Eurozone economies can’t do this. They can’t devalue, they can’t pursue expansionary monetary policy – they can’t rely on exports to recover – because the whole Eurozone is weak.

 

 

 

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5366/economics/austerity-pros-and-cons/

[unclebulgaria67]

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5366/economics/austerity-pros-and-cons/

 

Austerity will never work, because although you will see the deficit number reducing, you get into a vicious circle of cutting to deal with issues it creates. If you don't spend money on roads for example you get increased traffic and that means you hit productivity. NHS has seen spending rise insufficient to cover all costs, therefore many Hospitals are in debt, which will need to be dealt with. Councils receive less money e.g care budget cut therefore more older people staying longer in hospital, costing the NHS.

 

Most of the debt has been added by coalition and Tories. When Labour left office in 2010, the debt was about £590 billion and the economy was growing. It now stands at £1600 billion, after the first 3 years of the coalition had very little growth.

 

Had the coaltion made investments straight away in getting houses built and other infrastructure projects started, i think we would be in a much better position. Some cuts would have been needed, but some tax increases would have been needed as well. The Tories decided on mostly spending cuts and some tax reductiions, hoping to see consumer spending increase. But the austerity has caused lower real term wages and consumers have cut back. Therefore business makes less profit and pays less tax.

[determindator]

I think Mr O has had a u turn on austerity?

[fletch70]

Isn't it odd that in the EU countries like Germany who are social democrat (ish) by nature insist on the like of Greece following the direction of the world bank and the Washington consensus of liberalise , privatise and reduce the role of the state .

All because The U.S.A contribute most to the world bank and the IMF and therefore in reality control what it does

[fletch70]

Austerity will never work, because although you will see the deficit number reducing, you get into a vicious circle of cutting to deal with issues it creates. If you don't spend money on roads for example you get increased traffic and that means you hit productivity. NHS has seen spending rise insufficient to cover all costs, therefore many Hospitals are in debt, which will need to be dealt with. Councils receive less money e.g care budget cut therefore more older people staying longer in hospital, costing the NHS.

 

Most of the debt has been added by coalition and Tories. When Labour left office in 2010, the debt was about £590 billion and the economy was growing. It now stands at £1600 billion, after the first 3 years of the coalition had very little growth.

 

Had the coaltion made investments straight away in getting houses built and other infrastructure projects started, i think we would be in a much better position. Some cuts would have been needed, but some tax increases would have been needed as well. The Tories decided on mostly spending cuts and some tax reductiions, hoping to see consumer spending increase. But the austerity has caused lower real term wages and consumers have cut back. Therefore business makes less profit and pays less tax.

 

When business profits are being challenged it is not just the business tax that is affected, businesses either reuduces pay or limits pay rises which in turn reduces the income tax revenue , as fixed costs go up there is less money for consumers to spend so less vat paid and reduced business profit, the cycle continues

[determindator]

A bit off topic but as you mention the USA, have you noticed when they get involved i.e FIFA and the FBI something gets done.

 

I think a world supremacy maybe the ultimate goal, but we are way way in the infancy of that. With ref to Greece you have to look at the management of their own internal affairs. For Greece it's just a wake up call to look at the housekeeping. I see that as just common sense. To bring countries together into a club all at different economic situations is a mammoth job, lots to negotiate. I'm just a human being watching and reading as we all do to try and see what the future holds.

[unclebulgaria67]

When business profits are being challenged it is not just the business tax that is affected, businesses either reuduces pay or limits pay rises which in turn reduces the income tax revenue , as fixed costs go up there is less money for consumers to spend so less vat paid and reduced business profit, the cycle continues

 

Yes that is true

 

The other thing to mention is greater use of technology, which means less human labour, more part time working etc.

[buckthorn]

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled,

public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled,

and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed, lest Rome will become bankrupt.

 

People must again learn to work instead of living on public assistance."

- Cicero , 55 BC

 

So, evidently we have learnt little all over the past 2,067 years.

[Bazooka Boo]

People must again learn to work instead of living on public assistance."

- Cicero , 55 BC.

 

We are born to live, not work.

We must do away with this absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living, we keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian-Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist.

 

Austerity is simply another way of controlling the population.

[buckthorn]

Great lets all pack up work then.

No NHS-No schools-No houses to live in, no welfare payments/family allowances/housing allowance

no food in shops as their would be nobody to produce it-and nobody to sell it as their would be no payment for working!!

Great I love it, What are you going to do for the rest of your life??????????

[Conniff]

We are born to live, not work.

We must do away with this absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living, we keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian-Darwinian theory, he must justify his right to exist.

 

Austerity is simply another way of controlling the population.

 

That has to be the silliest and most selfish post on the whole forum.

[Bazooka Boo]

That has to be the silliest and most selfish post on the whole forum.

 

Excellent my work here is done.

[buckthorn]

Conniff I totally agree, it really is the most selfish statement ever,

what he is saying is, I will sit back and let anybody who wishes to work

and contribute to the country do so, and I will sit and watch, thank you very much.

[fletch70]

That has to be the silliest and most selfish post on the whole forum.

 

I am hurt. I thought I held that honour. I must try harder.

 

In support of BB we should work to live but with capitalism we sre required to live to work, unless we are the bourgeoisie when we can sit on our million a week yatchs and spend 10k on a dinner party when water aid are asking the ordinary people for £3 to stop people dieing

[Bazooka Boo]

Fletch, don't be too hard on yourself, all you have to do is hold an opinion which differs to that of others.

 

And thank you buckthorn for telling me what I am saying, I don't need to impart anymore opinions as you know what I'm saying before I do...

 

In an attempt to get this thread back on topic, austerity is a con yes. With that I quite agree.

[buckthorn]

Sad! person.

No ambition and no interests, other than in himself,

[Bazooka Boo]

Sad! person.

No ambition and no interests, other than in himself,

 

Wow, is that a reflection of yourself?

How can you possibly even know what my ambitions or interests are when you're sat behind a keyboard?

Do your parents know you're using their computer?

[fletch70]

Sad! person.

No ambition and no interests, other than in himself,

 

Well I for one have an ambition to make the world a more egalitarian place where people all have enough food to eat and enough clean water . How any capitalist can sleep at night is beyond me when they know that they are getting richer on the backs of the workers in, for example China and Bangladesh